larryllix Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) With about fifteen battery operated devices, when I swapped my PLM I found ISY just locked me right out. The process was so busy trying to link to battery devices not much worked in the admin console. When I click on a device or another page it would take 5-10 minutes to display the page. If I clicked on multiple pages in desperation it hung it up for 30 minutes at a time. After my 12-14 hours of frustration (over night too) I concluded that battery devices are the problem with the UDI algorithm. If I had about 20 battery devices or more my ISY would have been hung permanently and never recovered without a reset. Linking a battery device was a painful process as you had to guess when the linking process for that device came around on the ISY list of unlinked devices it tried infinitum. Mostly the linking time on the battery devices times out and you had to wait for about 15 minutes for ISY to come around again. The ISY algorithm to change a PLM needs some work to not cause this user lockout. One try for each battery operated device should be the maximum number of tries with a message that they have to be linked manually by the user. As a work-around all battery devices need to be disabled before attempting the PLM swap. After ISY settles down and user response is resumes each device can be linked manually one at a time. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17473-replace-plm/ Edited January 23, 2016 by larryllix
mwester Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Ok, y'all have convinced me. My PLM is about two years old - given the pain of replacing a PLM as described in this thread (and others), I'm just going to proactively replace the capacitors. This failure rate is so unbearably awful, it just is beyond my comprehension how SmartHome/SmartLabs/Insteon haven't addressed this in some better fashion. For example, just making it possible to modify the address of a PLM so that the replacement simply requires a "restore" would be a minimum "mea culpa" on the part of the manufacturer. Yet we all put up with this... why?
paulbates Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Ok, y'all have convinced me. My PLM is about two years old - given the pain of replacing a PLM as described in this thread (and others), I'm just going to proactively replace the capacitors. This failure rate is so unbearably awful, it just is beyond my comprehension how SmartHome/SmartLabs/Insteon haven't addressed this in some better fashion. For example, just making it possible to modify the address of a PLM so that the replacement simply requires a "restore" would be a minimum "mea culpa" on the part of the manufacturer. Yet we all put up with this... why? Yes, its annoying. The address swap has been done in one rare case. SH swapped out defective Gen 1 Hubs a few years back for replacements that worked. One of the options was to wait a few more weeks for the replacement to arrive and send them your defective Hub's insteon address. A new hub was shipped with the the original's insteon address. I swapped, did the equivalent of restore PLM for homeseer, and was back in business. I would gladly pay for this now as a service now as you describe, just don't see it happening. Ok, I'm going to cry now. Paul Edited January 23, 2016 by paulbates
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 So FINALLY I am getting somewhere! Lol I did the reset and then unplugged the ISY - started things back up and upon logging in its now appears to be restoring the PLM. My switches are beeping and I can see the status for each change in the admin console. Not sure why it was stuck but I kept the device Jon mentioned airgapped, maybe thats a bad device and was causing it to loop on the restore?
jerlands Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 So FINALLY I am getting somewhere! Lol I did the reset and then unplugged the ISY - started things back up and upon logging in its now appears to be restoring the PLM. My switches are beeping and I can see the status for each change in the admin console. Not sure why it was stuck but I kept the device Jon mentioned airgapped, maybe thats a bad device and was causing it to loop on the restore? LeeG was the one who turned you onto that but what I'm curious about is why pulling the air gap on the device sent ISY into such a tizzy. Jon...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 LeeG was the one who turned you onto that but what I'm curious about is why pulling the air gap on the device sent ISY into such a tizzy. Jon... No it was you post 16 - pulling the airgap didnt cause the issue I think the issue was the device and airgapping it helped the ISY not get stuck in the loop restoring it. It was a good call I didnt even notice it. Got mesmerized by the scrolling screen and was more interested in the hops than device. Oh look something shiny...
jerlands Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Well good to hear you're up and running again.. I wouldn't think this to take over a half hour or so... Jon...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 Well good to hear you're up and running again.. I wouldn't think this to take over a half hour or so... Jon... Yup your right already back up and running. Now for all my water leak detectors, motions etc, Can I add them individually or do I have to run around and put them all in linking mode? I just tried to put two in linking mode and by the time the ISY got to them it timed out because it cant communicated with the other battery devices (which I didnt put into linking mode). So do I have to gather all of them up and put them on a table, put them in linking mode then put them back when done? I thought if I did this then the links/hops would not be correct for the devices once I moved them and could cause communication issues for them. Am I right or wrong?
paulbates Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Yup your right already back up and running. Now for all my water leak detectors, motions etc, Can I add them individually or do I have to run around and put them all in linking mode? I just tried to put two in linking mode and by the time the ISY got to them it timed out because it cant communicated with the other battery devices (which I didnt put into linking mode). So do I have to gather all of them up and put them on a table, put them in linking mode then put them back when done? I thought if I did this then the links/hops would not be correct for the devices once I moved them and could cause communication issues for them. Am I right or wrong? Gathering them in one spot and replacing is one way. Using laptop that has java, or a surface tablet, and moving yourself to each device is another. It is a PITA no matter what. The location of the update and hops do not matter. The insteon mesh figures that out on its own at run time. Paul Edited January 23, 2016 by paulbates
jerlands Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Motions can write then active to update (include battey powered devices to automatic writes)... Leak/door sensors you'll need to put into linking mode. If comms aren't good enough they'll fail to write. Jon...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 So there are three battery leak sensors in VERY difficult places to get to. Can I skip them and do the rest of do I HAVE to put them in the group?
jerlands Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 So there are three battery leak sensors in VERY difficult places to get to. Can I skip them and do the rest of do I HAVE to put them in the group? Grouping is only for your convenience but you need to write them one at a time. Jon...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 Grouping is only for your convenience but you need to write them one at a time. Jon... So just "writing the update" is ok or do I have to do the "restore device"? I thought it was restore device since the PLM is new. Sorry if I am being a PITA.
hart2hart Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Writing the update should be all that is required. The pending updates are to update device for new PLM. Edited January 23, 2016 by hart2hart
stusviews Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Be sure to take any battery powered device out of linking mode before adding another!!!
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 Writing the update should be all that is required. The pending updates are to update device for new PLM. Thanks this is better since I they seem to timeout doing the full store device. Be sure to take any battery powered device out of linking mode before adding another!!! Will do, thanks for the reminder. I disabled the hard to reach locations so hopefully that helps "bypass" the other devices from trying to link to them. I dono if thats the case or not. I been able to add my four water leak sensors back and both motions. Still working on the hidden door sensors and going to see if I have energy left to climb into the attic and remove the plates of the fridge and dishwasher to add those back. They are not high priority and based on my last crappy week I wanted to just relax as much as possible this weekend.
larryllix Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 If and once the ISY looping linking mode gives up you can put one devuce in linking mode and do a restore. This will start the linking loop once again but one less device will be included to fix. The loop will get shorter and faster and your chance of success at catching a device in the loop atvthe same time it is in linking mode gets bettet with each success in a reverse exponential loop time.
Scottmichaelj Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 If and once the ISY looping linking mode gives up you can put one devuce in linking mode and do a restore. This will start the linking loop once again but one less device will be included to fix. The loop will get shorter and faster and your chance of success at catching a device in the loop atvthe same time it is in linking mode gets bettet with each success in a reverse exponential loop time. Perfect. You are 100% correct - I have three water leak detectors left to add back but for now I just "disabled" them in the ISY because they are a PITA to get to and not a high priority. With my luck this week one of those three will leak and well...lets hope not. I just dont have it in me today to take off covers and climb into the attic. Everything is back up and seems to be working well. Thanks for everyones help. Not sure if v5 was the issue or the one device that I had to airgap. I added it back ok and did a few queries and it looks fine. Getting 3 hops left each time etc so not sure what its problem was there. Again I dont have the energy to worry about it right now. Hope everyone has a great weekend and thanks again for the help.
jerlands Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 This failure rate is so unbearably awful, it just is beyond my comprehension how SmartHome/SmartLabs/Insteon haven't addressed this in some better fashion. For example, just making it possible to modify the address of a PLM so that the replacement simply requires a "restore" would be a minimum "mea culpa" on the part of the manufacturer. Yet we all put up with this... why? Lets hope UDI gets what they need from Smartlabs to continue their development! Jon...
jmac Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Ok, let me get on this merry go round..... Just replaced my PLM and repowered the ISY and it has been about 30 minutes of "busy" (red flag - lower left). I had already configured the battery devices for a future "manual write". How long can I anticipate a wait, or should I start some other action here to regain my automation?
Teken Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 What a great weekend eh? Having done this same process so many times is never fun. The only thing more depressing is reading about how some people with 2413S PLM's with 2.1 / 2.2 hardware have also failed within six months! ========================= In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Teken Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Ok, let me get on this merry go round..... Just replaced my PLM and repowered the ISY and it has been about 30 minutes of "busy" (red flag - lower left). I had already configured the battery devices for a future "manual write". How long can I anticipate a wait, or should I start some other action here to regain my automation? 30 minutes isn't long enough if you have more than 25 items. ========================= In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
jmac Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) All right - guess I'll post again tomorrow. Didn't know the amount of time involved - if it were days, or weeks, or whatever for a "Restore". And I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I truly appreciate the help. Probably my weak understanding of the procedure, but I am trying to follow everyone else's triumphs and tragedies. Edited February 2, 2016 by jmac
Teken Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) All right - guess I'll post again tomorrow. Didn't know the amount of time involved - if it were days, or weeks, or whatever for a "Restore". And I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I truly appreciate the help. Probably my weak understanding of the procedure, but I am trying to follow everyone else's triumphs and tragedies.This process has never been fast. If you have lots of 1st / 2nd generation devices this process is extremely slow. If you have the most recent 3rd / 4th generation of Insteon devices the restore process is easily twice as fast. But again if you have lots of battery operated devices that exceed ten. You might as well find a comfortable chair and a big cup of coffee. ========================= In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. Edited February 2, 2016 by Teken
stusviews Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Unless you're a slow sipper, a movie or book will get you closer to the end
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