ulrick65 Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 None of us relish the idea of having to contact Smarthome and try to explain -why- we want to return for replacement 5 of the 30 switches we just received. Then you may be in a position of having to return 1 or 2 of the 5 replacements. It is astonishing to me that we are still suffering issues that should have been ironed out YEARS ago with this product. I agree! Just when you think "Ok, the paddle problem took forever for SH to acknowledge the problem, but once they did they they made good on it for the most part...then they finally fess up to the flickering light problem and fix it and make good for the most part. Everything is smoothed out, stuff is working...feeling good!' BANG along comes I2 and 4.0 switchlincs and stuffs starts falling apart again If it wasn't for Michel and the dedication of the UDI staff, I doubt I would consider Insteon a workable solution anymore. I'm sure I would have given up. I just hope that these constant hurdles put forth by SH do not eventually wear down UDI and cause them to throw in the towel. Jim H. This is 100% true. I am concerned that some folks see the current problem as belonging to ISY because it just so happens to show up there. The issue with these switches seem to be the switches...not the controller. I have 3 of them and they all work fine. I got another 49 in a box beside me here to install...we will see what happens with those, but given that you and others have run into problems and correct it by changing it out with an exact replacement (down to the datecode) and it works fine...I expect I will have issues as well. As an aside...I am still at a loss for exactly what is GAINED by I2. Surely there is some benefit I know...but I just wonder what the gain is versus the complication and disfunctionality.
Michel Kohanim Posted December 28, 2008 Posted December 28, 2008 Hello windrockwater, i1/i2 is currently used for programming devices. I do recommend using the i1 only option, restoring the troubled devices, and testing it for a few days. To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think the problem is related to "traffic" created by doing "any" i2 operations that, in some cases, makes the newer devices deaf, sleepy, or moody. By reverting to i1, it means that ISY will never attempt any i2 operations, therefore no i2 traffic, therefore the likelihood of problems are much less. Jim H. Thanks so very much for your vote of confidence. It does mean a lot. Eric, The advantages of i2 (per SH): 1. Longer messages "may" provide the means of field upgrading devices in the future (of course, you will have to buy new devices) 2. Some of the commands that required PEEK/POKE (memory locations) now can be accomplished by i2 commands With kind regards, Michel
johnradams Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Several (all?) of my newish SwitchLinc Dimmers appear in the ISY GUI as 2476D SwitchLinc Dimmer v.00. My older ones still correctly appear as v.27, v.35, and v.28. I am pretty sure that the devices that report as v.00 are actually v.40. I am running ISY 99i Pro (v.2.6.13). I would like to have access to the correct device version info, as I have approx 40 devices so far, and it is very helpful to have reliable information for tracking issues with SmartHome and what-not. Here's a screenshot: Pls advise. Thanks.
gregoryx Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Hello windrockwater, i1/i2 is currently used for programming devices. I do recommend using the i1 only option, restoring the troubled devices, and testing it for a few days. To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think the problem is related to "traffic" created by doing "any" i2 operations that, in some cases, makes the newer devices deaf, sleepy, or moody. By reverting to i1, it means that ISY will never attempt any i2 operations, therefore no i2 traffic, therefore the likelihood of problems are much less. Jim H. Thanks so very much for your vote of confidence. It does mean a lot. Eric, The advantages of i2 (per SH): 1. Longer messages "may" provide the means of field upgrading devices in the future (of course, you will have to buy new devices) 2. Some of the commands that required PEEK/POKE (memory locations) now can be accomplished by i2 commands With kind regards, Michel Michel, the warning when I try / consider changing to all I1 says "Using i1 Only messaging option shall cause inconsistent linking behavior at best and inoperable i2 devices at worst. Please use this option if you are sure you do not have any i2 devices in your network." Yet, your logic above seems sound: since i1 probably means less traffice, it may be the opposite - it may mean better linking and communication. Which leaves the question: how do I know if I have anything that does not support i1 or will work worse with i2 turned off? Are RemoteLincs i2, as it seems suggested in other posts? Would new SWLs (I have a bunch of .35s) i1 and i2 and should work equally well either way?
Michel Kohanim Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 johnradams, How do you add your SWLs? The only reason you would get 00 is if you add the device using New Insteon Device. This way, ISY does NOT do an ID Request and thus will not know the firmware version. gregoryx, You are right. All I can say is that if you have a newer installations, it's best to leave it at Automatic because most new devices are i2 only. So, your new SWLs will have more problems if you use i1. If you have older installation (static and not changing) then using i1 only is probably a better idea. RemoteLincs are i2 + i1: they work in both modes. With kind regards, Michel
johnradams Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Yes, Michel, I have generally begun the practice of adding devices by providing ISY with the device address. As my installation grows, I have found that this is more sane (for me, at least!), than running around the house clicking on devices. Is there any way to get ISY to query the devices that I added using the "Add New Insteon Device" feature? Also, is there any way to query Access Points? It is not clear to me that they even have a device address. Seems like it would be nice if each Access Point could report what other Access Points that it can see via PowerLine and also via RF. In general, in addition to all of the programming feaures of the ISY-99, I'm trying to use the ISY to allow me to monitor and improve reliability of my installation. To shed light on my situation, see my separate post about 2 electric meters and multiple sub-panels.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Hello johnradams, Currently there's no way of doing this since this features was added for the sole purpose of devices that do NOT report their type and firmware version. I am sure we will be able to implement your request but, at the moment - and since that code touches all the i2 stuff - I prefer not disturbing fearing introduction of bugs. Yes, I have read about your installation and not only I am fascinated but I would like to know more about the meters. Are they regular utilities provided meters or are you sub-metering using your own meters? With kind regards, Michel Yes, Michel, I have generally begun the practice of adding devices by providing ISY with the device address. As my installation grows, I have found that this is more sane (for me, at least!), than running around the house clicking on devices. Is there any way to get ISY to query the devices that I added using the "Add New Insteon Device" feature? Also, is there any way to query Access Points? It is not clear to me that they even have a device address. Seems like it would be nice if each Access Point could report what other Access Points that it can see via PowerLine and also via RF. In general, in addition to all of the programming feaures of the ISY-99, I'm trying to use the ISY to allow me to monitor and improve reliability of my installation. To shed light on my situation, see my separate post about 2 electric meters and multiple sub-panels.
johnradams Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Well, actually, it's more complicated than you might imagine For some reason, GA Power elected to run two separate underground power lines on my property (this was back in 1982; I've been here about 3.5 years). Thus, I have 2 meters: one for the house (400 amp main panel), and one for the poolhouse (200 amp main panel). The house has two 200 amp panels (both full of breakers), which in turn feed power to 3 small sub-panels, which were added over the years. The house also has a 30 KW natural gas generator, with its own 100 amp panel controlled by an automatic transfer switch. So, you can see why I am keen on using the hard-wired couplers to brdige the legs on each panel, and rely on Access Points to link together the various panels. I also have a couple of circuits fed by rack-mount UPS equipment (which, of course, are fed by circuits coming from the panel backed by the generator). These, of course, are electrically isolated and need their own Access Point. The poolhouse has a 200 amp main panel, and feeds a separate 80 amp panel for the pool equipment. The 80 amp panel feeds a sub-panel which is located next to my neighbor's well (we share the well for irrigation, filling pools, etc.). We do in fact have an electric meter located at the well panel, mostly so we can track electrical consumption and I can then charge him for half of it. Truth be told, we each have a water meter to measure our own water consumption from the well (meters are also *very* handy for identifying leaks!), so if we wanted to we could base electrical charges based on water consumption. I used an electric meter that is sold for metering in non-commercial applications (eg, measuring usage for tenant using a mother-in-law suite or similar); such meters are a couple of hundred bucks and plenty accurate. Has a nice little odometer, etc. Similar for water meters; the Sensus M41USG is about $180. Having meters and other instrumentation can be invaluable. Hence my interest in, and enthusiasm for, additional reporting and monitoring functions for the ISY. BTW, it seems to me that the main screen of the ISY has plenty of room for additional columns, such as "IsLoad", etc. Just a thought. Apologies for the geek-fest, but I find it fun. I have over 25 IP addresses here in my home (in part due to a big Sonos installation); Newt professional 2.5 is very useful for tracking devices. As soon as I install the hard-wired couplers (they are due to arrive this week), and re-work my Access Points, I am going to use Insteon to turn on/off the waterfall on our fishpond. Actually, you don't "turn on" the waterfall; the pump is always running; you simply divert the water line from the pump to feed the waterfall instead of the pool of water. All you need is a "Y" valve (a standard Jandy "Never-Lube" valve will do the trick), and a "valve actuator" to control the valve. The valve actuators are pretty standard; they all use 24VDC (about .75 amp) to control the valve. Since this is a "Y" valve, there are two control lines (in addition to the common/neutral). Energize one control line and the valve moves to some position; energize the other and the valve mose to some other position. You can set cams inside the actuator to control the specific positions; I will simply set them to "all one way" and "all the other way". To prevent hiccups, I am using a SPDT relay to control the 24VDC controls; using a SPDT relay ensures that exactly one control line will be energized at any one moment. It is wise to avoid energizxing both at the same time! The relay is more reliable than relying on software / program logic. To keep things simple, I'm using a relay with 120VAC coil, which I can easily control using a simple LampLinc or whatever (eg, an Icon On/Off adapter -- not a dimmer). Turn on the Adapter, and the NormallyOpen contact is engaged, and the valve sends the water to the top of the waterfall. Turn off the adapter, and the NormallyClosed contact is engaged, and the water goes into the pond. If there is no power at all, then the valve will presumably stay in some original position, or perhaps settle into a half-way position. No problem either way. regards, john
gregoryx Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I just got a 2420M to try. That's i2 only, right?
ulrick65 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Well, actually, it's more complicated than you might imagine Wow! That is one hell of a system you have there! You mention GA Power, I live just outside of Macon, GA...if you don't mind me asking, what area do you live? If I ever get to build my house (my wife is against the idea) then I will have something very similar. Can never have to much power, to much network access or to many wires running around. It's like saying "I have to much money"...yea right!
gregoryx Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Well, actually, it's more complicated than you might imagine Indeed. Thanks for the detailed description. Great insights!
Michel Kohanim Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Hello! Wow, I must admit that this is surely an installation that I have to see with my own eyes to believe! My interest is very much in the metering part mostly because of all the SmartGrid things we are trying to get our hands on. As far as the $200 electricity meters, please do be kind enough to let me know what brand and where we can buy them from since I firmly believe metering is one of the most essential equipment required for conserving energy (ISY currently supports the Brultech meters as a module). Thanks so very much for the detailed explanation. Indeed quite insightful. With kind regards, Michel
johnradams Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I am using the "IMS Mini-Meter", which I bought from: http://www.submetering4less.com/ From the website: # Integrated Metering Systems is a progressive, well respected manufacturer of KWH meters, with a large OEM customer base. # The IMS mini meter is easy to install, comes in a weatherproof NEMA 3R enclosure, and has a resolution of 1/10 KWH. # IMS has worked hard to produce a great quality meter, with the features you need, a full 10 year warranty, and a price that can't be beat. My needs were for traditional metering; I assume you are looking for meters that can be queried. Good luck.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Hello johnradams, Excellent. Thanks so very much. We would like to ability to query the meter ... perhaps the have network/communicating version available. Thanks again so very much, With kind regards, Michel I am using the "IMS Mini-Meter", which I bought from: http://www.submetering4less.com/ From the website: # Integrated Metering Systems is a progressive, well respected manufacturer of KWH meters, with a large OEM customer base. # The IMS mini meter is easy to install, comes in a weatherproof NEMA 3R enclosure, and has a resolution of 1/10 KWH. # IMS has worked hard to produce a great quality meter, with the features you need, a full 10 year warranty, and a price that can't be beat. My needs were for traditional metering; I assume you are looking for meters that can be queried. Good luck.
Zellarman Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 The last thing I went through was a mass failure of about 20 switches over a one week period due to electrical problems from my utility provider (LIPA). Not surprisingly, my Insteon switches were the ONLY devices to actually suffer damage from the problematic power supply (which seemed to have been fixed after several calls to LIPA). The switches were still under warranty, and Smarthome was good enough to replace them, along with a bunch of other switches that I returned for paddle failures.Jim H. Jim, can I ask what the symptoms were after the powere was restored. I believe I caused my own recent problems by cycling trough circuits trying to identify them. Everything still functions, but there's a number of ghost links I can't seem to get rid of.
jhimmel Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Zellerman, What happened is that there seemed to be a power generating problem, illustrated by intermittent flashing of lights in the house, accompanied by a fairly loud buzzing noise coming out of the associated dimmers. It was very strange, and went on for a week. During that week, one by one, my V2 Switchlincs started DYING all over the place. They went dark - with no ability to control the load, and nothing illuminated on the LED's - just a completely dead switch. I lost about 20 switches during that week - several a day.
CJVann Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 The new switches that are not being recognized by the ISY consistently are all 2476D v35 (although they have v4.0 printed on them). I have some V4.0/V35 SwitchLincs still sitting new in the box that I'm afraid to use since they have the faulty firmware. Has SmartHome fixed the bug, or was there a work-around in the ISY to overcome the problem? Thanks!
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