ISY994i Communication with Smarthome 2466SW

[rorichmond]

Hey everyone!  Been a long time since I have been in these forums. I am back into the home automation game after several years.

 

I have an ISY994i running v4.3.26 (both firmware and UI). I have added two 2466SW's so far, and they are working great (both are porch lights). I added my third switch today on my under-cabinet lighting, and I cannot get it to link with the controller. The switch goes into linking mode when I hold down the LED for a few seconds, but never links. The switch itself works correctly - the lights and LED work as expected. I tried turning the dryer on to bridge the phases, hoping I just need to buy a phase coupler, but that made no difference. The house is new - finished in October of 2015. Any ideas?

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

Rob Richmond

Knoxville, TN

[Techman]

Hey everyone!  Been a long time since I have been in these forums. I am back into the home automation game after several years.

 

I have an ISY994i running v4.3.26 (both firmware and UI). I have added two 2466SW's so far, and they are working great (both are porch lights). I added my third switch today on my under-cabinet lighting, and I cannot get it to link with the controller. The switch goes into linking mode when I hold down the LED for a few seconds, but never links. The switch itself works correctly - the lights and LED work as expected. I tried turning the dryer on to bridge the phases, hoping I just need to buy a phase coupler, but that made no difference. The house is new - finished in October of 2015. Any ideas?

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

 

Rob Richmond

Knoxville, TN

Hi Rob

 

The 2466SW is not a dual band device. You probably need to bridge the two sides of your powerline assuming that you don't have some type of electrical interference that's preventing the linking.  If you don't already have dualband devices then you need to add at least two, one on each leg of your powerline. Either the range extenders, on/off modules or dual band lamplincs are best as the antennas are external and will provide the best RF coverage.

[jerlands]

Turning on the dryer will not bridge electrical legs and if anything will add noise to the line.  My guess by what you say is your network lacks bridging and a phase coupler would solve that.  If you open Event Viewer to Level 3, attempt link then copy trace to clipboard (clipboard icon lower toolbar in Event Viewer) and post in message someone will be able to help.  Your Insteon network depends on bridging and the 2466SW is powerline only

 

 

Jon...

[rorichmond]

Jerlands - I read on one of the sites that turning on a 220 appliance would help temporarily couple the two phases. That said, what you say about the noise makes sense though.

 

I actually took the switch back out for now, so I will have to reinstall it and gather the event viewer data.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

 

 

Rob

[rorichmond]

Hi Rob

 

The 2466SW is not a dual band device. You probably need to bridge the two sides of your powerline assuming that you don't have some type of electrical interference that's preventing the linking.  If you don't already have dualband devices then you need to add at least two, one on each leg of your powerline. Either the range extenders, on/off modules or dual band lamplincs are best as the antennas are external and will provide the best RF coverage.

 

 

Techman - so would two of the dualband devices (each in a different phase) do the same thing as a hard wired phase coupler? Is there an advantage to a hardwired coupler?

 

I had 15 or 20 devices at my last house, and never had to worry about a phase coupler. Everything just worked (unless my wife plugged in the scentsy candle), so this is new to me.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

[Techman]

Techman - so would two of the dualband devices (each in a different phase) do the same thing as a hard wired phase coupler? Is there an advantage to a hardwired coupler?

 

I had 15 or 20 devices at my last house, and never had to worry about a phase coupler. Everything just worked (unless my wife plugged in the scentsy candle), so this is new to me.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

 

A lot depends on the size of your home, how many electrical panels you have, and whether you have anything that injecting noise onto your powerline such as some T.V.'s, a UPS, a computer power suppliy, or your wife's candle, etc.  Yes dual band devices would certainly help depending on which ones you use. A dualband device mounted in a metal box will limit its RF range compared to the devices I mentioned in my pervious post. A hardwired phase coupler could also add some reliability to your network depending on whether or not you have any other issues. .

 

What's your current Insteon setup consist of?

[stusviews]

There are several possibilities for the communication problem you are experiencing. The first and most obvious is that the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply are not bridged. If the dryer is electric, then it will couple the opposite legs (not phases) and not add noise. If the dry is gas, then turning it on will not help.

 

A hard-wired coupler is best for bridging the opposite legs and keep most of the Insteon signal within the premises. The hard-wired coupler does not, however, repeat the Insteon signal nor does it have any RF capability. Two properly located dual-band devices will also function as a bridge. There are also electronic devices that interfere with the power line signal, stompers that put noise on the power line (e.g., TVs, computer power supplies, wall warts) and suckers that absorb the automation signal (UPSs, line conditioners).

 

Unplug or disconnect everything on the problem circuit (turning a device off is not adequate). Does that help at all? BTW, do you have any dual-band devices?

[rorichmond]

Techman - Right now, I have an ISY994i, six 2466sw's, and a garage door kit  (still in the box).

 

I plan on adding a LOT more dimmer switches, switches+motion sensors, replacing my thermostats, and adding a few outdoor units to run the vanity lighting outside the house. I am looking for as many interesting things to do with automation as I can.

[rorichmond]

Stusviews - the drier is electric, and that is what I read, but it made no difference. I think I am going to add a few range extenders around the house. I don't have any dual phase devices right now.

 

I will probably also add a hard wired phase coupler soon. The diagram I am looking at doesn't make sense to me though - granted that is probably because I am not an electrician. Wouldn't both the breakers in the picture be on the same leg? I always thought each side of the panel was on a separate leg. 

[stusviews]

Breakers alternate vertically. Those at the same horizontal level on each side of the panel are on the same leg of the split, single-phase electric supply.

 

A    A

B    B

A    A

B    B

A  A

etc.

[rorichmond]

Thanks stusviews - that may be the most useful thing I have learned today! 

 

Would it be safe to assume that tandem circuit breakers are both on the same leg? It seems like they would, but don't want to assume. The PLM and the switch in question actually share a tandem breaker.

 

I am starting to wonder if there is a problem with the common wire.

[jerlands]

Stusviews - the drier is electric, and that is what I read, but it made no difference. I think I am going to add a few range extenders around the house. I don't have any dual phase devices right now.

 

If your drier has electronic controls then likely it'll dampen rather than bridge signals.

 

 

Jon...

[stusviews]

Tandem breakers are on opposite legs and should be used only to power 220/240v appliances (e.g., electric water heaters, dryers, stoves and A/Cs). It's not in compliance with the code to power 110/120v circuits with yoked breakers.

[DennisC]

Thanks stusviews - that may be the most useful thing I have learned today! 

 

Would it be safe to assume that tandem circuit breakers are both on the same leg? It seems like they would, but don't want to assume. The PLM and the switch in question actually share a tandem breaker.

 .

Twin breakers (two breakers in one space) are on the same leg.

 

Dennis

[stusviews]

If your drier has electronic controls then likely it'll dampen rather than bridge signals.

 

 

Jon...

 

A dryer with electronic controls may put some noise on the power line, although unlikely, but it can't help but bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. That's just the way the current flows

[stusviews]

Twin breakers (two breakers in one space) are on the same leg.

 

Dennis

 

 Half-height double (twin) breakers are on the same leg, but they are never yoked.

[Techman]

Techman - Right now, I have an ISY994i, six 2466sw's, and a garage door kit  (still in the box).

 

I plan on adding a LOT more dimmer switches, switches+motion sensors, replacing my thermostats, and adding a few outdoor units to run the vanity lighting outside the house. I am looking for as many interesting things to do with automation as I can.

 

All the Insteon devices you have are single band which means that you have no devices taking advantage of the RF capabilities of Insteon and thus the poor communications.  A hard wired coupler across the two legs of your powerline should improve communications. Assuming you have a 2413S PLM, which is dual band, the addition of dual band (RF) devices will greatly improve signal reliability by adding a secondary signal path.

 

Note: motion sensors are single band as are all battery operated devices.

[rorichmond]

Thanks for everyone's input. I ordered a couple wireless extenders that I will put on opposite legs. I'll report back on how that affects everything.

 

 

Rob

[rorichmond]

Okay - installed a pair of wireless extenders on separate legs of the power. Still nothing. It is as if it isn't even seeing the device. I ran diagnostics in level 3 as someone above requested. The switch works and the lights go on and off, but ISY994i doesn't even acknowledge it.

 

Not much help, but here are the logs.

 

Mon 03/07/2016 04:23:21 PM : Start Insteon Device Linking Mode

Mon 03/07/2016 04:23:21 PM : [LNK-BGN     ] 02 64 01 00 06 

Mon 03/07/2016 04:33:31 PM : Stop Insteon Device Linking Mode, Final processing to follow

Mon 03/07/2016 04:33:31 PM : [LNK-END     ] 02 65 06 : : Unexpected, ignored (65)

Mon 03/07/2016 04:33:31 PM : [        Time] 16:33:32 2(0)

Mon 03/07/2016 04:33:31 PM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

Mon 03/07/2016 04:33:31 PM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

Thoughts?

[jerlands]

Factory reset then try link process using "Start Linking"

 

 

Jon...

[rorichmond]

To make matters more odd, I replaced another switch on the same circuit using one of the two previously used switches, and it worked flawlessly. 

 

All I want is automated under cabinet lights... killing me.

[stusviews]

Which specific switch did you replace? Which specific switch did you replace it with?

[rorichmond]

Stusviews,

 

• I have (2) 2466SW's. 
• I replaced the switch to my under cabinet lighting with one of the 2466SW's (A), but it wouldn't connect to the IST994i.
• I then replace 2466SW (A) with another 2466S (, and it wouldn't connect either.
• The under cabinet lighting is on the same circuit as the pedestrian door in the garage.
• I replaced the switch to the pedestrian door with 2466SW (A) and it linked right up to the controller.

 

Trying to figure out what would keep a 2466SW from communicating with the ISY994i from one location on a circuit, when it works at another location on the same circuit.

[stusviews]

That's possible if there's a noise maker between the device that links and to one that doesn't. Add the "problem" device by wiring it in a successful location. Do not replace anything. Now install the newly added switch in the "problem" location. does the ISY see it (can you turn it on and off from the ISY)?

 

If so, then you need to test for communication difficulties. Perform a Restore Device follow by Write Updates to Device.

[rorichmond]

Quick update. Once the other device was installed on the same circuit, the switch on the under cabinet lights works flawlessly.