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Diming lights for scene


MustangChris04

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I'm having an issue using the "Alexa, dim the lights to 50%" command. ("Lights" is the spoken work for the scene")

 

I have a scene with a keypadlinc dimmer for the lights and another keypad as a controller/responder (like a 3-way).

 

When I use the command for the scene to dim I get a response of "That command doesn't work on device lights".

 

If I use the command "Alexa, dim the lights" the lights reduce output by about 10%. 

 

 

Question is, why can I use the command "Dim the lights" but not "Dim the lights to 50%"? Certainly if it responds correctly to me asking to dim the lights, it should be capable of responding to a specific percentage. Where is the dimming factor defined that is making it dim by about 10% at a time?

 

I have to ask the Echo to dim the lights 5 times before I get to a level of around 50%. :(

 

Thanks,

Christopher

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You cannot dim a "scene" to a specific level.  Insteon protocol issue, discussed in a few other threads here.  Benoit added ability to dim/brighten scenes in 9% (ish) intervals by issuing the command to dim or brighten it.

 

If there is only one lighting device in the scene, just target that device.

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You cannot dim a "scene" to a specific level.  Insteon protocol issue, discussed in a few other threads here.  Benoit added ability to dim/brighten scenes in 9% (ish) intervals by issuing the command to dim or brighten it.

 

If there is only one lighting device in the scene, just target that device.

 

Interesting. Thank you for this. I suppose that the 9% cannot be configured? With the output curve of my LED lights, I don't notice it start dimming until it is 75% or below. So I'd have to ask Alexa to dim 3 times before I even notice it dimming. 

Added, note, you could use a program to get your secondary keypad back in synch with the one that has the load.

Thank you. This is what I was thinking of doing to work around this, although not ideal. 

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Interesting. Thank you for this. I suppose that the 9% cannot be configured? With the output curve of my LED lights, I don't notice it start dimming until it is 75% or below. So I'd have to ask Alexa to dim 3 times before I even notice it dimming. 

Thank you. This is what I was thinking of doing to work around this, although not ideal. 

Currently it pulses 3 times, where 3% is the nominal amount of dimming for an Insteon scene dim/brighten.   I too would like to have an option to set it to 5-7 pulses.

 

Anyone else want to see this made a variable that the admin can set in the portal?

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The 3% per brightness change is an Insteon restriction. Benoit miraculously found a way to issue three consecutive changes with one command. More than that is simply not possible unless the Inston protocol is changed-ain't gonna happen.

 

There are a couple of solutions. I use both. Most often, a specific preset is used. In that case, a pair of scenes works best. For example, we mostly use two levels in our living room, so we have two scenes with spokens, "light" and "bright light."

 

"Alexa, turn the light on," or "Alexa, turn the bright light on." Create your own adjectives, such as love, low, lively, loud B)

 

The second solution is best if you want to specify different levels that would involve too many scenes. Simply add the scene and the device wired to the load. Give each a different spoken, respectively, such as "light" and "ceiling light."

 

Devices do respond to %age levels, so you can ask, "Alexa, turn the light on," for the scene and, "Alexa, set the ceiling light to xy," for a specific %age. You do not need to voice "percent."

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The 3% per brightness change is an Insteon restriction. Benoit miraculously found a way to issue three consecutive changes with one command. More than that is simply not possible unless the Inston protocol is changed-ain't gonna happen.

 

 

I don't think it was a miracle, I think by his own description he hardcoded it to call the dim/bright 3 times in a row.

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I see the same command in the log being sent in repetition 3 times in a row. Surely there would be a way to program a variable instead of hard coding it. 

 

As long as you can beat the clock B)

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so I got this problem too. Two switches controlling overhead can lighting, a keypad that actually controls the load and a switch on the other side of the room that controls the "scene overhead lighting". This allows the most important feature of the on off LED's on the keypad and the ramping LED on the other switch to mirror each other. I know I'm crazy but I cant live if they don't match.

 

In comes isy portal and Alexa, Can't dim the scene with alexa can only turn it on and off. tried all sorts of ways but no go. I finally named the load controlling switch ceiling lights 1 and the other switch ceiling lights 2 in the spoken section of the portal portal. I then had alexa discover devices so that both appeared and added both into a group called ceiling lights. Now with spoken work ceiling lights everything works beautifully. I can now say ceiling lights (xx) percent and they change quickly to that, no 9% rule. Most importantly the on/off led matches on/off of the lights and the ramp approximates the brightness on the other switch. So whats the question?

 

Is this going to burn my house down?

I know it won't but I want someone else to tell me its ok.

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  • 6 months later...

Currently it pulses 3 times, where 3% is the nominal amount of dimming for an Insteon scene dim/brighten.   I too would like to have an option to set it to 5-7 pulses.

 

Anyone else want to see this made a variable that the admin can set in the portal?

Yes, I would love to see this.  Who is Benoit?  Can he at least try to make it 4 or 5 or 6 instead of 3?  Been doing the Alexa "Groups" thing to be able to set dim levels of multiple devices, but it would be great to have a usable "Dim Scene" command that I don't have to issue 4 times in order to get it down to a decent level.  I know I can create a secondary Scene with the same items but a different Spoken Name and have them set to that Dim level.. that's certainly an option.

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Currently it pulses 3 times, where 3% is the nominal amount of dimming for an Insteon scene dim/brighten. I too would like to have an option to set it to 5-7 pulses.

 

Anyone else want to see this made a variable that the admin can set in the portal?

Me too, I would think ~20% at a time is useful, the current 9% is simply not use full.. Maybe 6 pulses for 18% would be good compromise?

 

Cheers,

Alex

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Yes, I would love to see this.  Who is Benoit?  Can he at least try to make it 4 or 5 or 6 instead of 3?  Been doing the Alexa "Groups" thing to be able to set dim levels of multiple devices, but it would be great to have a usable "Dim Scene" command that I don't have to issue 4 times in order to get it down to a decent level.  I know I can create a secondary Scene with the same items but a different Spoken Name and have them set to that Dim level.. that's certainly an option.

 

Benoit is the ISY engineer for the Amazon Echo. As I indicated, three dim levels is the maximum that the Insteon protocol can be coaxed to. That standard is not likely to change. That Benoit actually got three levels in one command is an tribute to his expertise.

 

Four or five or six is personal. There is probably no one level that would satisfy even a plurality of users, let alone most users B)

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The last step in your progression would be 6.25%. In any case, the progression you listed is not logarithmic.

Sure it is.

 

log2( 6.25  / 3.125) =  1

 

log2( 12.5  / 3.125) =  2

 

log2(  25   / 3.125)  =  3

 

log2(   50   / 3.125) =  4

 

log2( 100   / 3.12 5) =  5

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True, but when the base of the logarithm is not specified, then the base is always considered to be 10. Also, the curve for the human eye to the sensitivity to light is not based on log2. If it were, then a change from 100% to 50% would be a just noticeable difference.

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Yeah but the LED bulbs don't appear to follow a consistent curve either.

 

I had to replace one CREE bulb in a dining room fixture of 5 bulbs. Despite being the same power rating CREE, they changed their style and it dims differently than the other four. Looks awful about 15-25% .

 

I guess back to your point I don't think people need all these 0-100% either. Ramping is one thing, for looks, but people don't need many "clicks", just maybe  full, medium, low, very dim.

 

We don't need to have 48, 49, & 50% for fan speeds either.

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In fact, I do need most of the brightness range. I don't need the range as a continuous option, but there's a place where 17% is ideal and another where I use 12%. I also use 20%, 25%, 50%, 85% and even more. Without the full range being available, I couldn't set these specific points.

 

Virtually all the lighting uses two set points and a few have three. I rarely have need to adjust the brightness on-the-fly. No, I'm not illuminating insects, only readers B)

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