Insteon 2477d wiring - assistance needed

[GuitarMan86]

Hoping some of you may have some quick thoughts on a wiring dilemma I am running into trying to get a 2477d wired up properly on a 3 way switch that is wired up a little differently than a usually seen method.

 

Summary:  I have Box 1 labeled on the left (3 gang box with 2 other 3 way switches).  I am working on the 3 way switch on the far left for that box.  There are 3 black wires that are the load in this box that are tied together.  One of these black wires is tied to the 3 wire going to box 2.  So B/R/W (typically the traveler wires are going over to box 2 (pictured) and that Black wire is HOT.

 

Box 2 is also a 3 gang box with a separate 3 way switch and another single switch (single switch is completed)...still have to wire the other 3 way. 

The 3 wires coming over from box 1 are wired as indicated (white/white, Insteon Red/Black hot, Insteon Black/Red traveler).

 

Back to Box 1 I am trying to figure out what wires need to be tied (I have refered to page 11 in the 2477d manual showing the 3 way diagram).  However, I am not able to get either 3 way switch to be powered in this scheme. 

 

Any thoughts are much appreciated.  Will be posting on the Insteon Smart home groups as well if I don't figure it out soon.

 

Thanks!

 

*On a more positive note!  I got my ISY994 and received my Amazon Echo and already have setup my ISY portal to control a Insteon Lamp link module with PLM all set up accordingly!  Some progress at least haha

[stusviews]

The diagram you posted is not possible. Nothing in the diagram is actually connected to the load. At each box, which wire is connected to the black screw of the 3-way switch. Where is the neutral wire. A white wire connected to a switch is NOT a neutral.

[jwarner964]

Hi

It looks like to me that the power is in the light box and the cable coming from the light is a switch loop

[paulbates]

Hi-

• Insteon switches can not participate in a traditional, non automated 3 way setup
• You'll need two insteon switches, one in each box to replicate a traditional 3 way setup
• Only one of them, in the box on the left, will physically control the light.
• Using the ISY admin console, you'll create a scene to make both insteon switches work in unison, they each turn the other on or off

Wiring directions for this scenario with 2 insteon switches:

• RIght box and Insteon switch 1
  • Wire the insteon switch 1 on the right box to incoming black and white only,
  • cap off the switches red and the red in the box
• Left box and insteon switch 2
  • Wire the white and black for insteon switch 2 to the incoming white/black show at the bottom of the box
  • Wire the white leading to the lights to the same whites for incoming and switch 2
  • Wire the red from the insteon switch to the black leading to the lights
  • Cap off the incoming red wire on the bottom
• As stated above, use the admin console to create a scene where both switched are controllers. this will cause the lights to use insteon to keep the switches in sync

 

Paul

Edited April 17, 2016 by paulbates

[GuitarMan86]

Thanks for the replies..... here is a little more information to picture what was wired previously.  I took a picture of Box 1 wiring and Box 2 wiring.  Box 1 is the pic that has the 'black box' 3 way switch and box two has the paddle switch.

 

 

Black wire on Box 1 pic (not shown) is tied to black wires to the right and feeds the black wire going to box 2.

Black wire on Box 2 pic is 'hot'

 

r/w/b from box 2 go back to box 1 and the black is then tied to load feed with 3 other black wires.

Edited April 17, 2016 by GuitarMan86

[larryllix]

You need two SwitchLinc switches to make this work.

 

and in box 1 the second cable from the left is not clear where the black, in the 3wire going to box 2, is going. The photo is focused on the twist connectors, in the air,  and it is hard to be sure where things are going, since we need that black conductor from that cable.

 

Also the third and fourth cables may be involved and need to be clearer.

Edited April 18, 2016 by larryllix

[GuitarMan86]

Understood....I have enough 2477d switches to cover the downstairs scenario.

 

The red/white/black shown on switch one: red and white are part of the 3 wire going to box 2. The black wire from the 3 wire is being tied to 3 other black wires as the hot before it goes to box 2. The black wire tied to the switch in box 1 is going to the black and white pair for the light.

 

The 3 wires tied to box 2 are all going night back to box 1. The only wire not pictured is the black which I mentioned above is tied to 3 other black wires as the load it seems.

[larryllix]

OK...think I have the picture.

 

Both SwitchLincs need power.

Box 1 - connect the black wire to the others in the connector, leave the black/3wire connected there, as is

Box 2 - connect black wire to  black/3wire

 

Both SwitchLincs need neutral

Box 1 - connect white to white/connector bundle with white/2wire to load and white/3wire to box 2

Box 2 - connect white to white/3wire

 

One SwitchLinc has a load

Box 1 - connect red to black/2wire to lamp

Box 2  - red gets capped.

 

Spare wires

Box 1 - red/3wire gets capped

Box 2 - red/3wire gets capped

 

 

As a check, in the end all blacks/SwitchLincs connect to black, whites/SwitcLinc to white,

Red/SwitchLinc 1 to black/2wire going to load and both red/3wire capped both ends.

Edited April 18, 2016 by larryllix

[GuitarMan86]

I believe I did just that as you describe.....I will try again to see if I am missing something. Will report back. Thank!

[GuitarMan86]

Gave it another shot..... no luck.  I am not getting power to either of the switches wired as mentioned above (believe I did it this way initially).  Here is what it looks like just to show the match up with Box1 and Box2.

 

 

[jerlands]

Basically all you need to do is supply power, neutral and ground to each switch, the load wire from one switch to the lights and cap the other switches red load wire off.

 

You may need a voltmeter to ensure you're not coming off some other switched supply.

 

 

Jon...

[stusviews]

r/w/b from box 2 go back to box 1 and the black is then tied to load feed with 3 other black wires.

 

If you have 3 other black wires, then that cannot be the load unless you are controlling 3 lights. A bundle of black wires usually indicates that the bundle is line. What other wires are cabled with each of the 3 black wires and what is each connected to.

 

Hint: each black wire must be cabled with exactly one white wire, there may also be a red wire in the same cable.

[GuitarMan86]

Figured it out.... had a couple of the neutrals mis-matched and therefore not lighting up the switch in this above scenario. 

 

Got the rest done except for one that I am diagnosing.  It seems the power being routed to this one is also taking away power to the switch when the switch is turned off.....never turns back on.

 

WIRES EVERYWHERE haha..... fun

[larryllix]

Excellent.

 

From your drawings, you were almost there anyway.

[stusviews]

Keep in mind that in virtually every multiway configuration, that wire colors are meaningless. In particular, one or more white wires are not neutral and black is not always line.

[GuitarMan86]

Keep in mind that in virtually every multiway configuration, that wire colors are meaningless. In particular, one or more white wires are not neutral and black is not always line.

 

Received....thanks.  I did notice that when testing.

 

I am at the point where I have all locations done and wired correctly and connected to work accordingly.  I am down to one 4 way switch which I have working correctly....however, one of the switches is quite warm/hot to the touch compared to the other two switches. 

[stusviews]

Is that the one connected to the load?

[GuitarMan86]

I figured it out.... was to much of a load.

 

Ok, all 10 dimmer switches installed and working correctly.  Now to get to the controlling part!  haha.....thank you all for you assistance.  Once I figured out what I was doing wrong on the first set it seemed to get better from there

[stusviews]

The controller part is easy. Create a scene with each device as a controller. Optionally, set the On-level and ramp rate. They can be the same or different for each device. Or do you mean something else?

[GuitarMan86]

The controller part is easy. Create a scene with each device as a controller. Optionally, set the On-level and ramp rate. They can be the same or different for each device. Or do you mean something else?

 

 

Nope...that's what I mean.  I am just getting started.  Just created a seen for watching movies and setting ramp rate and dim etc.  Cool stuff.....going to be addicting

[Scottmichaelj]

Nope...that's what I mean. I am just getting started. Just created a seen for watching movies and setting ramp rate and dim etc. Cool stuff.....going to be addicting

The hardest time I had was learning three and four way switch installations. I bought one of those pen tools that tell you what wires are hot etc. Then learning the load wire and switch was easier. Working back from there.

 

Glad your up and running. And yeah it's addicting for sure.

[GuitarMan86]

The hardest time I had was learning three and four way switch installations. I bought one of those pen tools that tell you what wires are hot etc. Then learning the load wire and switch was easier. Working back from there.

 

Glad your up and running. And yeah it's addicting for sure.

 

Agreed.... the 3 way and 4 way scenarios were/are a PITA.  The on/off single switches are certainly easier.  I had a set of Wiggys for testing which worked out fine...but I would rather have the pen tester (like Fluke) to make things easier with one touch.

[stusviews]

Caution: Voltage indicators can be misleading. Always use a voltmeter. Even the least costly one is adequate.

[larryllix]

We were always prohibited from even owning any single touch testers.

 

All voltage indicators, testers, and meters, had to have two leads to connect across the "potential difference

 

...and they had to be tested on a live source before trusting, each occasion.

[Scottmichaelj]

Oh you two. Gonna call you the safety police! I say throw caution to the wind. The hot line tester worked fine for me in both my houses. Plus whats a 120v tingle between friends? Livens up a party! Lol Go out on the edge and snip the live wire too without insulated snips to get bonus points. #DontListenToMeIAmNotATrainedElectricianOrProfessionalLOL #ButIDoThis