My Garage

[larryllix]

Dear Scott.

 

I hate you.

 

With much love.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

We're all invited over to test it's resistance to dancing, spilled drinks, and broken glass..

[Scottmichaelj]

Sure test that warranty too!

[apostolakisl]

So right above my garage is an attic space. I been meaning to insulate it and then put down a wood floor after I installed one of those pull down ladders to get access to it.

 

http://www.wernerco.com/us/en/attic-ladders/products-overview/ah-series-microsite

 

 

I trimmed it out and painted it white.

 

I forgot to get pix before and during the attic insulation and floor but here is the finished project. I added a three new roof vents and on one side of the house eaves knocked out the wood blocks and added screening.

 

Later I may add passthrough vent from the garage to the attic space then have a exhaust fan, but first I will see how this works out. There is nothing above the attic space so a fan maybe a waste and better installed in my actual attic area. I added some of the CAO wireless tags now in the attic and garage to monitor and log temperature.

 

 

 

 

Now that its done I can store all my empty boxes and whatever else up there without worrying about falling through or hurting my self balancing on the trusses!

Just keep in mind that the trusses weren't engineered for this.  Don't get too crazy about how much weight you put up there.  I have seen several examples of people bowing their garage ceiling and cracking the sheetrock converting the attic to storage space.  For example, my brother and my dad.

[Scottmichaelj]

Just keep in mind that the trusses weren't engineered for this. Don't get too crazy about how much weight you put up there. I have seen several examples of people bowing their garage ceiling and cracking the sheetrock converting the attic to storage space. For example, my brother and my dad.

Thanks good to mention. I usually just keep empty TV boxes etc there. My server room has full wall of cabinets (see earlier posts) which is where I keep decorations etc. I'm way too lazy to lift heavy stuff up the ladder plus hate the moving the car out etc to access it, so I only keep stuff I never need there.

 

FWIW the builder uses thicker sheetrock in the garages here, possibly something for firecode, not sure. I think its 3/4" rock vs 1/2" I think they used inside the house or different material. I can't remember just know its different.

 

They must be storing a ton of crap up there to bow the ceilings! Why do we keep/have so much crap?

[apostolakisl]

Thanks good to mention. I usually just keep empty TV boxes etc there. My server room has full wall of cabinets (see earlier posts) which is where I keep decorations etc. I'm way too lazy to lift heavy stuff up the ladder plus hate the moving the car out etc to access it, so I only keep stuff I never need there.

 

FWIW the builder uses thicker sheetrock in the garages here, possibly something for firecode, not sure. I think its 3/4" rock vs 1/2" I think they used inside the house or different material. I can't remember just know its different.

 

They must be storing a ton of crap up there to bow the ceilings! Why do we keep/have so much crap?

 

Fire code is 5/8 for garages.  Usually they use 1/2 inch on non-fire code walls.  But the sheetrock thickness isn't the issue on cracking, it is the seems.

 

You have trusses, which are going to be more rigid than your typical non-weight-bearing stick framing attic floor, so you probably will get away with more weight.  But no-less, if you walk around up there and feel the floor bouncing on you, then be delicate about it.

[Scottmichaelj]

Fire code is 5/8 for garages.  Usually they use 1/2 inch on non-fire code walls.  But the sheetrock thickness isn't the issue on cracking, it is the seems.

 

You have trusses, which are going to be more rigid than your typical non-weight-bearing stick framing attic floor, so you probably will get away with more weight.  But no-less, if you walk around up there and feel the floor bouncing on you, then be delicate about it.

 

So no mancave up there then?

[larryllix]

Our code is 5/8" for all ceilings with 24" O.C. unless you use cross strapping first, to stabilise the trusses from twisting, then 1/2" is OK.

 

If a permanent ladder is to be installed, giving easy access, and easy placement of storage items, the trusses would have a heavier design.

 

Another gotcha many make by mistake is using vapour barrier and not insulating. This results in the drywall falling off the ceiling from condensation.

 

You appear to have done the opposite. Insulation value may be lessened with frozen moisture but it shouldn't get too wet when thawing, being open to evapouarte it quickly with heat.

[apostolakisl]

Our code is 5/8" for all ceilings with 24" O.C. unless you use cross strapping first, to stabilise the trusses from twisting, then 1/2" is OK.

 

If a permanent ladder is to be installed, giving easy access, and easy placement of storage items, the trusses would have a heavier design.

 

Another gotcha many make by mistake is using vapour barrier and not insulating. This results in the drywall falling off the ceiling from condensation.

 

You appear to have done the opposite. Insulation value may be lessened with frozen moisture but it shouldn't get too wet when thawing, being open to evapouarte it quickly with heat.

I would use 5/8 on ceiling no matter what if you are 24 inch on center.  1/2 can start to sag if it gets humid often enough.  

 

I just looked up national code, and it looks like 1/2 is OK for garage walls.  My builder used 5/8 on my garage walls and I do believe code here calls for it on attached garages.

 

Generally speaking, the cost difference between 1/2 and 5/8 is a puny part of the budget.  The labor on sheetrock doesn't really change.  I suppose they might charge more to account for the guys complaining about the weight.  The main issue is that your door and windows will typically be designed for 1/2 inch on the walls so you need to order those for 5/8.

[Scottmichaelj]

Our code is 5/8" for all ceilings with 24" O.C. unless you use cross strapping first, to stabilise the trusses from twisting, then 1/2" is OK.

 

If a permanent ladder is to be installed, giving easy access, and easy placement of storage items, the trusses would have a heavier design.

 

Another gotcha many make by mistake is using vapour barrier and not insulating. This results in the drywall falling off the ceiling from condensation.

 

You appear to have done the opposite. Insulation value may be lessened with frozen moisture but it shouldn't get too wet when thawing, being open to evapouarte it quickly with heat.

They cross strapped the trusses too. If you look at the pictures of the attic you will see there is a 2x4 that runs the full width of the garage that is nailed into each truss. I also made sure to block out the ladder door opening as well so there is no movement. I was going to get crazy and put a seal on the ladder access lid but then there is so much other non sealed items like the can lights that its probably not worth it. I do want some air to escape the garage to vent out. I don't get any moisture really and our temps at worst here only get to 15F and thats abnormal and only that way overnight for just a day or two. My goal was to keep the garage cooler in the summer while the attic heated up, in turn to keep the server/workshop room off the garage cooler saving energy on the split system AC installed. The garage rollup is insulated, however the dual french glass doors are only interior and not. I didn't get "too crazy"

[apostolakisl]

They cross strapped the trusses too. If you look at the pictures of the attic you will see there is a 2x4 that runs the full width of the garage that is nailed into each truss. I also made sure to block out the ladder door opening as well so there is no movement. I was going to get crazy and put a seal on the ladder access lid but then there is so much other non sealed items like the can lights that its probably not worth it. I do want some air to escape the garage to vent out. I don't get any moisture really and our temps at worst here only get to 15F and thats abnormal and only that way overnight for just a day or two. My goal was to keep the garage cooler in the summer while the attic heated up, in turn to keep the server/workshop room off the garage cooler saving energy on the split system AC installed. The garage rollup is insulated, however the dual french glass doors are only interior and not. I didn't get "too crazy"

 

You really should vent the attic from outside air.  Soffet vents and ridge vents or some other low/high openings to use the power of "hot air rises" where it pulls from and vents out to the outside.

[Scottmichaelj]

You really should vent the attic from outside air.  Soffet vents and ridge vents or some other low/high openings to use the power of "hot air rises" where it pulls from and vents out to the outside.

 

If you read above I am already doing that. There are "bird blocks" that allow the outside air in, then there are multiple vents on the roof. As I stated I actually knocked out the other side of the garage that did not have bird blocks to allow more outside air to come in, then added more vents on the roof as well. Not sure how the cardboard pieces work exactly but assume they also help the outside air flow cool the attic space. If you look at my pictures you can see what I am talking about.

 

Based on my wireless tags temp logs the attic is staying about 10F cooler then previously after the changes. The garage is also staying cooler as well, but not as dramatic.

 

Edit: Just went back and looked at my pictures and its hard to tell if your not looking hard enough, so heres another one so you can better see/understand what I mean.

 

[larryllix]

They cross strapped the trusses too. If you look at the pictures of the attic you will see there is a 2x4 that runs the full width of the garage that is nailed into each truss. I also made sure to block out the ladder door opening as well so there is no movement. I was going to get crazy and put a seal on the ladder access lid but then there is so much other non sealed items like the can lights that its probably not worth it. I do want some air to escape the garage to vent out. I don't get any moisture really and our temps at worst here only get to 15F and thats abnormal and only that way overnight for just a day or two. My goal was to keep the garage cooler in the summer while the attic heated up, in turn to keep the server/workshop room off the garage cooler saving energy on the split system AC installed. The garage rollup is insulated, however the dual french glass doors are only interior and not. I didn't get "too crazy"

The strapping I was referring to would be on the bottom side of the truss/ceiling joist and would not be seen in your photos. Now you have plywood strapping the top of the bottom joist anyway so that is moot.

 

I see no support for the angle webs. In our code, if you read the truss engineering drawings you would probably see that any web over 5-6 feet long needs to be strapped perpendicular to each one, usually some rough sawn 1x3, across each and every one about centre of the span. This is to stop the unsupported truss web members (those 45 degree pieces) from twisting or flexing to one side. The vertical webs are the same thing, no support cross piece. They do make travelling in an attic a PITA.

 

I can see light so I know you have good peak ventilation, and I can see your Moore vents to allow you to insulate without plugging them up. They only need to be above the insulation for effective circulation. Nobody cuts them off anyway.

[Scottmichaelj]

The strapping I was referring to would be on the bottom side of the truss/ceiling joist and would not be seen in your photos. Now you have plywood strapping the top of the bottom joist anyway so that is moot.

 

I see no support for the angle webs. In our code, if you read the truss engineering drawings you would probably see that any web over 5-6 feet long needs to be strapped perpendicular to each one, usually some rough sawn 1x3, across each and every one about centre of the span. This is to stop the unsupported truss web members (those 45 degree pieces) from twisting or flexing to one side. The vertical webs are the same thing, no support cross piece. This makes travelling in an attic a PITA.

 

I can see light so I know you have good peak ventilation, and I can see your Moore vents to allow you to insulate without plugging them up. They only need to be above the insulation for effective circulation. Nobody cuts them anyway.

Ok question, how did we get here? I'm sure its to code, I don't know code, I'm not a home builder, you guys are too smart for me/your own good. Moving on, don't you like the pretty floors?

[apostolakisl]

Not sure how the cardboard pieces work exactly but assume they also help the outside air flow cool the attic space. 

I assume the cardboard you are referring to is for the last few feet between the rafters going into the soffit.  Those are to keep the insulation from blocking flow.  Usually they are made of an injected molded foam material, but it really doesn't matter as long as it keeps a clear space for the air to get from the soffit into the attic.