Moving from Insteon to Zwave questions

[ahwman]

Hello,

 

I've been using an Insteon only network for several years and just sold my home. That said, before equipping my new home with HA, I'm doing my research to determine whether to stick with Insteon, move to Zwave, or utilize a combination of the two. The general consensus seems to be towards running a hybrid of the two. With this in mind, I see some possible issues utilizing both Insteon and Zwave.

 

Example: I'd like to use Zwave occupancy sensors in my bathrooms to trigger the lights, however if I were to utilize Insteon light switches in these locations, I imagine there is no way to directly link a Zwave occupancy sensor to an Insteon switch. The only way around this would be to the utilize a program to monitor status changes of the occupancy sensor and trigger the Insteon light switch accordingly. The problem with this is the dreaded delay between the status update and the execution of the program. I'd rather not mix and match Insteon and Zwave switches as the look and feel is so different between the two. How have people overcome these issues or is my thinking flawed?

 

Thanks so much,

Chuck

[larryllix]

First I have avoided Zwave so far.

 

The delays are not in the programming inside ISY so much as the Insteon Comm delays.

ISY/PLM has to wait until all the echoes and Acks die out after the initiating device would stop transmitting On. Only then, the ISY program / PLM could transmit the light On command.

 

With a Zwave MS this should be cut into less than half. The Insteon MSes, being RF only, send multiple Ons before the Insteon comm line settles down. This shouldn't be a problem with the combo, as far as delays go.

 

Since you already have Insteon devices, getting one ZWave MS to try, would be my route, before jumping completely into the pool.

.

EDIT: I guess you would need the Zwave board for the ISY, also. That may be prohibitive for just an experiment, costwise

[mwester]

I thought I'd have the same delayed-lighting problems.

 

So I put an Insteon motion sensor in the master closet and set it up to control the closet lights, and then have made sure that absolutely NOTHING touches that motion sensor on the ISY (in order to avoid the dreaded All-On).  That one works as we all expect with Insteon -- and I point this out so you know my "baseline" for performance expectations.

 

I had a z-wave open/close sensor on the mudroom door, just to play with it, and one day I added a quick program to the ISY to turn on the mudroom lights (Insteon-controlled) when the door opened.  That worked so well I added a z-wave multisensor, and souped up the program (no need to turn on the lights if there's enough light coming in through the window or adjacent hallway (lux sensor), turn on the lights dimly if there's motion, brighter if the door is opened, etc).  There's a delay, for sure, but it's actually short enough that we've gotten quite used to it.  I can't get more than a couple of steps into the mudroom before the lights come on via the motion sensor, and the lights usually come on by the time the door is fully opened via the open/close sensor.  So I'm more than happy with the performance.

 

Nevertheless, for more "critical" rooms, I'm sticking with one technology or the other, but not mixing.

[lilyoyo1]

I use a combination without issue. I mainly use insteon keypads/switches. For zwave; I use locks, outlets, motion sensors, and window sensors. There are a couple of zwave switches in closets and dual insteon outlets where needed.

 

I think it comes down to how you use your system. For me everything works great with programs regardless of whether it's insteon or zwave. The slight delay isn't so much that it impacts things negatively.

 

For example; certain lights will come on dependingon whose code is used. By the time the door is open, the lights are on and at the color they should be (I also have hue lights)

 

Though I use motion sensors, mine are set to turn things off rather than on. In the end, I think using both gives you the best of both worlds and is worth it

[sn0cr4sh]

I'm the opposite - I haven't ever used Insteon, only Zwave. I have a bunch of EcoLink PIR Zwave ms in my house to turn on stair lights and baseboard led lighting. When you put the jumper inside to Test-Mode, they respond very fast and can trigger the light incredibly quick. It's fast enough that if I open a bedroom door to step in to the hall, the light is on before I get out of the room. Once tripped, they have about a 20-sec lockout before you can re-trigger again. So I made my lighting programs keep the lights on for at least 30-secs.

 

The Zwave relays, especially the MimoLite are super cool though, and the speed they talk is helpful. I needed an alarm input trigger on my NVR based on front door motion. Rather than running a mess of low voltage, I just have an EcoLink PIR detect the motion and trigger the MimoLite. It picks up people at my front door the second they step on the porch. Pretty handy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rafarataneneces]

First I have avoided Zwave so far.

The delays are not in the programming inside ISY so much as the Insteon Comm delays.

ISY/PLM has to wait until all the echoes and Acks die out after the initiating device would stop transmitting On. Only then, the ISY program / PLM could transmit the light On command.

With a Zwave MS this should be cut into less than half. The Insteon MSes, being RF only, send multiple Ons before the Insteon comm line settles down. This shouldn't be a problem with the combo, as far as delays go.

Since you already have Insteon devices, getting one ZWave MS to try, would be my route, before jumping completely into the pool.

.

EDIT: I guess you would need the Zwave board for the ISY, also. That may be prohibitive for just an experiment, costwise

One question

 

Using ISY994 Administration Console can you just create a Scene with both Insteon and Z-Wave devices?

 

I thought you could use Scenes

 

Apparently you have to do everything with programs??

[rafarataneneces]

Can you create a scene between Z-Wave only products?

 

or everything has to be done with programs?

[larryllix]

One question

 

Using ISY994 Administration Console can you just create a Scene with both Insteon and Z-Wave devices?

 

I thought you could use Scenes

 

Apparently you have to do everything with programs??

In my post that you quoted I stated

• "First I have avoided Zwave so far."

I didn't think Zwave had scenes, period, only Insteon.

[mwester]

You can create a scene that involves zwave devices with 5.0.4 if you want  -- but it doesn't work yet.  This is functionality that's still being implemented.

[Chris Jahn]

There currently is very limited scene support for Z-Wave.  You can add Z-Wave nodes to ISY scenes as responders, and they will turn on/off etc. just like other responders in a scene.  The main limitation is you cannot currently control a scene with a Z-Wave device.

 

We are working on proper Z-Wave scene support, and fingers crossed we won't run into any more unexpected problems.

[rafarataneneces]

There currently is very limited scene support for Z-Wave.  You can add Z-Wave nodes to ISY scenes as responders, and they will turn on/off etc. just like other responders in a scene.  The main limitation is you cannot currently control a scene with a Z-Wave device.

 

We are working on proper Z-Wave scene support, and fingers crossed we won't run into any more unexpected problems.

 

I want to do is buy the Fibaro Motion Sensor

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01615SUBI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=157J4PBFB9QBZ&coliid=I1JFD1PSXNJZ3Y

 

From what I understand 

 

Things I CAN do:

Implement readings in programs

examples:

 

a) Read the temperature in my Main Room and use that temperature for my AC program (if weather hot, turn on AC)

 

Also, if there is Motion Sensor, I want to change a variable (people_inside=1)

 

Things I CANNOT do:

Use Z-Wave as controllers

example:

Turn on the Insteon lights if there is Motion.

 

One question though.

Fibaro has multiple sensors (motion, temperature, to name a few)

 

Anybody knows if this sensor different readings will work with ISY994zw?