Automatic water shutoff valve - inline vs clamp on

[peterlandis]

I've been doing some research in automatic water shutoff valves and have come across both inline valves and clamp on that clamps to the existing valve. Is one better then the other? The clamp on definitely seems like less work but are there cons with the clamp on then the inline?

 

Inline

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Greenfield-Automatic-Security-Valve-Kit-GFASV075Z

 

Clamp On

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/GreenField-Clamp-On-Actuator-GFASVCOA?gclid=CJj-54-u484CFYGCaQodAwEGOw

[G W]

The 3/4 inch inline is much cheaper than the clamp on unit. The 1 inch inline is about the same price as the clamp on unit.

 

Only you can determine which one will work best for you. I'm going to order an online model.

 

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

I've been doing some research in automatic water shutoff valves and have come across both inline valves and clamp on that clamps to the existing valve. Is one better then the other? The clamp on definitely seems like less work but are there cons with the clamp on then the inline?

 

Inline

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Greenfield-Automatic-Security-Valve-Kit-GFASV075Z

 

Clamp On

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/GreenField-Clamp-On-Actuator-GFASVCOA?gclid=CJj-54-u484CFYGCaQodAwEGOw

 

The choice between the two really comes down to personal choice and use case. I can offer you some personal experience and thought on the matter regarding the topic at hand. Generally speaking installing a inline unit requires more costs, planning and code compliance.

 

A clamp on version is cheaper over all because there is no plumbing costs but you still need to follow any local codes and laws that apply to your location. When choosing a inline install you always need to ensure the system has the following in place and also follow applicable laws.

 

INLINE INSTALL:

 

- Device must be installed after (down stream) of the main water line if a fire sprinkler system is in place.

- A plumbing bypass should be installed in case the unit fails which allows you to service the unit.

- A drain port should be used to allow purging the line when in service / inspection.

- Inline solves the issue where a person has a dial closure.

 

CLAMP ON:

 

- You must ensure and validate the handle can be open-closed.

- Some units do not have enough torque to open-close the handle.

- Some installations have PEX, Copper, Other: Too much torque or rusty handle could snap off or breach a pipe.

- No plumber required and if all of the above is OK this is a easy DIY install.

 

 

Regardless of all the above many if not all of the systems on the market do not offer critical insight about the true state of the ball valve. Meaning just because you sent a open-close signal it doesn't mean it happen. Some units are also just timed and don't have a *Home* position to again validate if the ball valve is fully open vs closed.

 

Cycle life is also important to note here and some indicate XXX cycles vs others say XXXXX cycles. If you intend to link this to a security alarm system which upon arming will open-close the main water line. You will need to ensure your math is correct and will cover you for the intended use case and duration.

 

As noted if you exceeded the cycle life and it fails for a inline unit you have some labor time ahead of you unless you're the plumber which would than negate that costs. Keeping in mind if you didn't install a bypass you just made the family hate you even more while you putz around with your new / old toy.

 

Regardless of what many people have told you do not ever consider using *Shark Bite* fittings at the main service entrance. Failure to follow this common sense rule will result in the flooding you wanted to avoid in the first place. Of course if you needed to obtain a permit the inspector would not even allow it!

 

Other things to keep in mind is ensuring the device is properly serviced by a UPS / surge SPD system. It doesn't matter what the maker claims about *millions of cycle life* that has nothing to do with electronics in the hardware. Unlike many other industries it always seems random companies don't follow best practices that other industries do.

 

So, please keep that portion top of mind . . .

 

Lastly, I touched upon checking the clamp on (handle) to ensure it was in good working order and the torque threshold was acceptable to the hardware in place. Assuming you don't have any other method to link directly to the motorized valve system its best practice to cycle the handle once a month to ensure smooth movement along with detecting a potential fault.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention some of the hardware on the market have a manual bypass incase of a a motor fault. You should really try them out to see if it will meet your needs. As some of the super tiny manual valves require endless turns and you just don't know if its open. Because all it does is spin the ball valve from open to close in a complete circle.

 

Many have some kind of cheap aszz bubble line dial to indicate full open vs closed. Again the cheap one's are rarely if ever aligned to the zero mark indicating a open position. You won't know this until its in your hands and when you manually turn it and look straight down the valve body to see if the ball valve is open, partially, closed, or half open.

 

Which leads me to the last portion tolerances . . .

 

You will quickly find out that many of the units on the market after so many XXX cycles if you were to inspect the open-closed state of the valve will tend to drift. Meaning say after 6500 cycles it doesn't close the valve all the way and its always leaking. Versus the other way you believe its open but its partially closed and now you have nappy hair because there is no pressure while taking a shower.

 

Lastly, if your home is not properly strapped through out the building get ready for some serious pipe banging!

[giesen]

I'm thinking of getting a Greenfield ASV myself, and wondering if you would install it before or after the irrigation feed...

 

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[Teken]

I'm thinking of getting a Greenfield ASV myself, and wondering if you would install it before or after the irrigation feed...

 

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That would assume you are talking about the main water line entering the home vs other? Can you provide more insight about your question posed here?

[giesen]

I'm looking to install an ASV and a sprinkler system. The water meter is in my basement. The question is whether to install the ASV between the water meter and the branch off the main line for the sprinkler system (so that the ASV would control the supply for both the house and the sprinkler system); or to install the ASV after the irrigation system branches off the main line...

 

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[Teken]

Typically a ASV is installed before the water meter. This is done in a red neck way to monitor water flow. While others install it after the meter either do to need, code, or other.

 

The overall intent of the ASV is to interrupt the water supply to reduce water damage / waste. If you have a specific use case it really comes down to personal need(s).

 

 

=========================

 

The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

[giesen]

I didn't think it was legal (at least in my jurisdiction) to install it before the water meter.

 

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[giesen]

I ws really just trying to determine best practice. I was doing some reading on irrigation systems, and I see in at least some areas the water meter is at the property line and that the irrigation branches off in the front lawn. Obviously in my case that's not possible, so was wondering whether it's better to have the ASV before or after the branch for the irrigation system so that my Elk would or would not have to coordinate with the sprinkler system to make sure there is water available for it to use.

 

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[apostolakisl]

I'm thinking of getting a Greenfield ASV myself, and wondering if you would install it before or after the irrigation feed...

 

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After the irrigation.  When you go out of town, I assume you will want your house water off but still wan't your grass to not die.  I suppose you could program it to open while irrigating, but then you might just be irrigating the inside of your house for a couple hours in addition to your lawn.

[apostolakisl]

I didn't think it was legal (at least in my jurisdiction) to install it before the water meter.

 

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I am pretty sure you are correct on this.  Just like electrical, you only own what is after the meter.

[apostolakisl]

I have two of the Elk WSV's.  They are built like a brick S*** house.  One at my office and one at home.  They spin in an endless circle for on/off/on/off.  They have cams with set screws on a post that trigger micro-switches to know the position.  These are adjustable if somehow they are not stopping at the proper locations.  There is an indicator on it so you can see what position it is in at any given time.  You can put a wrench on it and turn it manually if the motor should fail or there is a power issue.  Everything I say here is based on my experience with the original Elk WSV, not the newer version.