FanLinc damaged (8 damaged in total)

[Brian H]

Interesting.

I had never seen one that has thermal protection before.

[larryllix]

Hmmmmm, hopefully the wife will never hear a firecracker, lol

 

How about this? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/TMOV20RP130M/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuQmL5N8IqpX6QPI%2fiCWrHwIXoHQjQ6nko%3d

 

Thanks for the guidance.

Looks perfect!

 

I think they must have addressed the firecracker issue!

 

Get some heat shrink sleeving and cover any bare lead right up to the insulated cap of the wire nut connectors.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[MrTinker]

Thanks again. I've ordered 12 (2 for every fan, just in case). I should already have shrink tubing and will apply to the exposed leads. Now I just need Smarthome to get on my RMA, guess I'll have to call them since their email support is taking a rather long time to respond.

[MrTinker]

RMAd my 4 failed FanLincs. Now I wait until the MOVs and new FanLincs are all here and then I'll test with the fan in the living room. I don't want to face the wrath of the pregnant wife by testing on the one in the master bedroom, lol

[MrTinker]

Received the Mouser order. They have three legs (part # P2T130M). Looking here (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/240/Littelfuse_Varistor_TMOV-68430.pdf) to get details. So ... what would you recommend for connections? Use the standard long legs (pins 1 and 2) between neutral and load or use pins 1 and 3? The latter connection method would then only connect the fan motor if the thermal protection was active, right?

 

Thanks again for any guidance and clarification in my understanding

[larryllix]

Received the Mouser order. They have three legs (part # P2T130M). Looking here (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/240/Littelfuse_Varistor_TMOV-68430.pdf) to get details. So ... what would you recommend for connections? Use the standard long legs (pins 1 and 2) between neutral and load or use pins 1 and 3? The latter connection method would then only connect the fan motor if the thermal protection was active, right?

 

Thanks again for any guidance and clarification in my understanding

Personally....I would cut the short leg off and only use the two long legs = just the MOV part without the fuse.

 

Make sure the snipped leg cannot touch anything. You may want to leave enough length to sleeve it.

 

If it ever blows apart...then consider installing the replacement on the outside legs. I doubt this will ever happen. They are tougher than this application.

 

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[Brian H]

The short lead is the fuse monitor wire.

I would second the cut it short and insulate it so it can't touch anything. It connects to one of the long leads through the thermal fuse.

[MrTinker]

My only thought for using the short leg (pin 3) for the motor connection would be that if the thermal fuse opens, the MOV would no longer be protecting the fan, right?

 

Otherwise, perhaps the thermally protected MOV wasn't the best choice?

[larryllix]

My only thought for using the short leg (pin 3) for the motor connection would be that if the thermal fuse opens, the MOV would no longer be protecting the fan, right?

 

Otherwise, perhaps the thermally protected MOV wasn't the best choice?

Right on all accounts.

 

My preference would be to pretend the fuse doesn't exist. You aren't going to be getting spikes off a little fan motor with enough energy to make that MOV explode.

 

We used that size MOVs in power station applications where severe lightning hits are brought in on the 230,000 volt tower lines into the sensitive electronics.

 

Surrounded by a metal enclosure, there us no danger to humans and a surge that big to make it fail is going cause the rest of your house bigger problems. We are only trying to suck up what the fan motor puts out when you turn it off abruptly.

 

Probably one of the tiny units would have been ample for this.

 

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[MrTinker]

Ok, sounds like others trying this path will want a different MOV  

 

So here's my plan, let me know if you think it sounds correct/good:

 

1) Connect Insteon FanLinc as normal to neutral, hot and ground

2) Connect Neutral to pin 1 of the MOV I have

3) Connect FanLinc motor wire to pin 2 of the MOV I have

4) Connect Fan motor wire to pin 3 of the MOV I have

5) Step back and turn power on  

 

Luckily, I'll be using Wago lever nuts to connect everything so it'll be a lot easier than traditional wire nuts.

[larryllix]

Ok, sounds like others trying this path will want a different MOV  

 

So here's my plan, let me know if you think it sounds correct/good:

 

1) Connect Insteon FanLinc as normal to neutral, hot and ground

2) Connect Neutral to pin 1 of the MOV I have

3) Connect FanLinc motor wire to pin 2 of the MOV I have

4) Connect Fan motor wire to pin 3 of the MOV I have

5) Step back and turn power on  

 

Luckily, I'll be using Wago lever nuts to connect everything so it'll be a lot easier than traditional wire nuts.

You should have the current path as short as possible between the motor and the MOV. These high voltage spikes can be really high frequency and the longer the leads or more components in between, the more the voltage can build up before being "eaten" by the MOV.

 

MOVs cannot stop the high voltage spikes from happening. They can absorb them and convert the energy to heat. To protect the sensitive electronics a better path needs to be provided.

 

My advice is:

1) Connect Insteon FanLinc as normal, to neutral, hot and ground

2) Connect Neutrals to pin 1 of the MOV I have

3) Connect FanLinc motor wire to pin 2 of the MOV, to Insteon FanLinc Motor Wire

4) Connect Fan motor wire to Install wire nut cap on pin 3 of the MOV I have

5) Step back and turn power on  

 

 

Note: Pin 3 could be used instead of pin 2 on the MOV if it was long enough. The added fuse impedance may slow down and reduce the effectiveness of the MOV.

[giomania]

Anyone received a fanlinc from SH recently?  Are they still 1.9?  I have two more 1.9's with issues and have requested RMA's...

 

I received two Rev 2.0, (4316) and one Rev 2.1 (4316) via replacement for failed units.  The order was placed on 6/5/17.  They all failed (grind/hum on high speed) within a month.  I also purchased 4 refurbished units on 7/7/2017 and received Rev 1.4 (2414); two of those have failed already, but my story is complicated, and probably worthy of a separate post.  .

 

Mark

[Jimbo.Automates]

I received two Rev 2.0, (4316) and one Rev 2.1 (4316) via replacement for failed units. The order was placed on 6/5/17. They all failed (grind/hum on high speed) within a month. I also purchased 4 refurbished units on 7/7/2017 and received Rev 1.4 (2414); two of those have failed already, but my story is complicated, and probably worthy of a separate post. .

 

Mark

Ya, sounds pretty messed up. I received 1 2.0 and 2 2.1. Hope the last longer than yours did.

 

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[MrTinker]

Maybe this MOV is a better fit?

 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/V20H130P/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuQmL5N8IqpX8nItFifzH%252bFU8nN9j4bS6A%3d

[giomania]

I decided to share my experience of purchasing, installing, and returning FanLincs (all from SmartHome), so here we go, to the best of my recollection.

 

I have seven Emerson Ceiling fans, with slight differences in finish and light kits.  Since the internal components may be different, let's assume they are different, which makes this maddening tale make some sort of sense.  I also have one Hunter ceiling fan.  Here are the fan details:

 

Fan Overview

2 Emerson CF755BS04 (0.7 A) Brushed Stainless finish installed at the kitchen table and the family room on the first floor

1 Emerson CF755PW04 (0.7 A) Pewter finish installed in the office on the first floor

1 Emerson CF705WW03 (0.6 A) White finish installed in the game room on the first floor

3 Emerson CF705AW03 (0.6 A) White finish installed in the NE, NW, and SW bedrooms on the second floor

1 Hunter Newburgh 20593 (0.6 A) Bronze finish installed in the SE bedroom on the second floor

 

Purchase and Failure Summary

On 5/3/16, I purchased 7 FanLinc's (unknown rev and mfg. date), and they all failed within a month, and then the 7 replacements (rev 1.9 4715), also failed within a month, and finally those 7 replacements (rev 1.9 1316) also failed within a month.  Next, the replacement units (rev 1.4 4414) for the four upstairs fans (3 Emerson, 1 Hunter) had mixed success, with the Hunter fan unit failing after a month, and the Emerson units lasting until May, 2017, after 8 months in service.  Last month, I purchased four refurbished FanLinc's, thinking that I would get (maybe) an older unit and/or a unit that has undergone a higher level of quality control.  The units I received were Rev 1.4 2414, but two of those four have already failed.  It would appear the highest failure rates are the fans upstairs, particularly the white Emerson 0.6 A units.  Wiring issues has crossed my mind, but the house is only 12 years old, and none of my other Insteon products have issues.  My next plan is to replace those white fans with Hunter units designed to work with their wireless receivers, so there are no on-board capacitors in the fan to adjust the speeds.  Comments and/or observations are welcome.

 

Emerson CF755BS04 (0.7 A) Brushed Stainless at the kitchen table

FanLinc Rev 1.3 (Unknown mfg date) has been working fine since 12/9/13.

 

Emerson CF755BS04 (0.7 A) Brushed Stainless in the family room

5/3/16 Unknown

6/2016 Unknown

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316

7/7/17 Rev 1.4 2414 (refurbished) stable thus far

Units purchased 5/3/16 failed within a week, and after three successive similar failures, the Rev 1.9 1316 unit was stable until July, 2017.  

 

Emerson CF755PW04 (0.7 A) Pewter finish installed in the office

5/3/16 Unknown

6/2016 Unknown

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316 

Units purchased in May, 2016 failed within a week, and after three successive similar failures, the Rev 1.9 1316 unit has been stable

 

Emerson CF705WW03 (0.6 A) White finish installed in the game room

5/3/16 Unknown

6/2016 Unknown

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316

Units purchased in May, 2016 failed within a week, and after three successive similar failures, the Rev 1.9 1316 unit was stable until July, 2017, when medium speed stopped working.

 

Emerson CF705AW03 (0.6 A) White finish installed in NE bedroom

5/3/16 Unknown Rev and mfg. date 

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316

9/14/16 Rev 1.4 4414 stable until May, 2017

6/5/17 Rev 2.0 4316 failed within a month; grinding on high

7/7/17 Rev 1.4 2414 (refurbished) failed already; grinding on high

Comments:  Units purchased in May, 2016 failed within a week, and after successive similar failures, had a good run over winter  

 

Emerson CF705AW03 (0.6 A) White finish installed in NW bedroom

5/3/16 Unknown Rev and mfg. date 

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316

9/14/16 Rev 1.4 4414 stable until May, 2017

6/5/17 Rev 2.0 4316 failed within a month; grinding on high

7/7/17 Rev 1.4 2414 (refurbished) failed already; grinding on high

Comments:  Units purchased in May, 2016 failed within a week, and after successive similar failures, had a good run over winter 

 

Emerson CF705AW03 (0.6 A) White finish installed in SW bedroom

5/3/16 Unknown Rev and mfg. date 

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316

9/14/16 Rev 1.4 4414 stable until May, 2017

6/5/17 Rev 2.0 4316 failed within a month; grinding on high

7/7/17 Rev 1.4 2414 (refurbished) stable thus far

Comments:  Units purchased in May, 2016 failed within a week, and after successive similar failures, had a good run over winter 

 

Hunter Newburgh 20593 (0.6 A) Bronze finish installed in SE bedroom

5/3/16 Unknown Rev and mfg. date

8/12/16 Rev 1.9 4715

8/25/16 Rev 1.9 1316

9/14/16 Rev 1.4 4414 stable until May, 2017

9/23/16 Rev 1.4 0114 stable thus far

Units purchased in May, 2016 failed within a week, and after successive similar failures, the Rev 1.4 0114 unit has been stable.

 

[MrTinker]

giomania, I think if I'd gone through all that, my wife would have moved me outside, lol

 

Just got the replacement FanLincs today, all four are "4316 REV2.1" modules. We'll see what these do.

 

I setup a fan test environment in my unfinished basement (ceiling fan mounted up to a board between two of the engineered joists, cord coming into the box the ceiling fan mounts to allows me to plug it into an outlet so I don't have to turn off the breaker each time). I may setup a program in my ISY994 to cycle through various speeds for a period of time. I'll be including the MOV as instructed and we'll see how it goes.

[giomania]

I replaced the 4 white Emerson fans that cooked the most FanLincs with Hunters that came with wireless motor / light controllers, so they are designed to work with them. We will see what happens with FanLincs on those fans.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrTinker]

And I just lost medium speed on my test mule (with the MOV in place) ...

[rafarataneneces]

And I just lost medium speed on my test mule (with the MOV in place) ...

Wow so even with MOV it still fails

 

What revision of FalLinc you have

[MrTinker]

Wow so even with MOV it still fails

 

What revision of FalLinc you have

 

"4316 REV2.1" modules (just got the four replacements and used one to test). Lasted one day.

[giomania]

"4316 REV2.1" modules (just got the four replacements and used one to test). Lasted one day.

I also received three replacement 4316 rev 2.1 versions last week.

 

How often were you cycling them?

 

 

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[larryllix]

"4316 REV2.1" modules (just got the four replacements and used one to test). Lasted one day.

Oh Gawd!  Not good news but something to be learned from this.

 

It's just possible (if you are the one that lost so many before), that you have big spikes or surges in your electrical wiring from somewhere else and the fanlinc, passing them into the motor, is being blown by them.

 

I hate to say this now but, if this is the case that adding a MOV across the output of the fanlinc could have made the problem worse.  ie. a voltage surge comes into the input of the fanlinc and outputs it to the load. Now the load has a MOV that absorbs the surge on the load side of the fanlinc causing surge current to flow through the fanlinc, overloading the solid state circuitry. passing the perceived short (to the high voltage)

 

If this is the case, and it wasn't just a bad fanlinc, then the answer would be to connect the MOV across the fanlinc from the input to the output wire effectively shorting  surge sourced elsewhere  into the fan motor where they would normally be dissipated.

 

Without complex test equipment and testing I don't know how we could determine  where the source of the problem is coming from. Also, If this works you needs some MOVs distributed around your house and to find the source of the disturbances and eliminate them at the source.

 

 

Providing it wasn't just a freak happenning with a new fanlinc, many would now slap MOVs on every combination of wiring. 

- across the input live to neutral

- across the fanlinc, input to output

- across the load=fan motor (as already connected)

But that is too much junk  in one ceiling box and the input unit may be better somewhere else like close to your service panel on a short run from it's own breaker.

[MrTinker]

I also received three replacement 4316 rev 2.1 versions last week.

 

How often were you cycling them?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I hadn't setup a program to do it so I was just doing it manually using a KeyPadLinc setup for the various fan speeds (Off, Low, Med, High). I would guess I cycled it maybe 20 times?

[MrTinker]

Oh Gawd!  Not good news but something to be learned from this.

 

It's just possible (if you are the one that lost so many before), that you have big spikes or surges in your electrical wiring from somewhere else and the fanlinc, passing them into the motor, is being blown by them.

 

I hate to say this now but, if this is the case that adding a MOV across the output of the fanlinc could have made the problem worse.  ie. a voltage surge comes into the input of the fanlinc and outputs it to the load. Now the load has a MOV that absorbs the surge on the load side of the fanlinc causing surge current to flow through the fanlinc, overloading the solid state circuitry. passing the perceived short (to the high voltage)

 

If this is the case, and it wasn't just a bad fanlinc, then the answer would be to connect the MOV across the fanlinc from the input to the output wire effectively shorting  surge sourced elsewhere  into the fan motor where they would normally be dissipated.

 

Without complex test equipment and testing I don't know how we could determine  where the source of the problem is coming from. Also, If this works you needs some MOVs distributed around your house and to find the source of the disturbances and eliminate them at the source.

 

 

Providing it wasn't just a freak happenning with a new fanlinc, many would now slap MOVs on every combination of wiring. 

- across the input live to neutral

- across the fanlinc, input to output

- across the load=fan motor (as already connected)

But that is too much junk  in one ceiling box and the input unit may be better somewhere else like close to your service panel on a short run from it's own breaker.

Wouldn't such a surge cause issues with other Insteon devices? I've occasionally lost other Insteon devices, maybe 3-5 in the decade that I've been at our current house. Then four FanLincs within say a month of installing them 

 

I have a whole house surge protector installed in my panel (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CONA1OQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

 

The FanLincs that died were in various locations/circuits: living room (circuit 1), master bedroom (circuit 2), child's bedroom (circuit 3), sitting room (circuit 4). The test was on yet another circuit in my basement.

 

I don't care if I need to shove 3 MOVs into every ceiling fan box, as long as they stay working! LOL

[Teken]

Either you have incredible bad luck or you have some serious electrical wiring issues in that house. When you say you cycled the fans 20 times what does that mean exactly? Like change it from low, medium, high, 20 times in succession?!?!

 

Or just in a general sense since its been installed??