MrTinker Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Either you have incredible bad luck or you have some serious electrical wiring issues in that house. When you say you cycled the fans 20 times what does that mean exactly? Like change it from low, medium, high, 20 times in succession?!?! Or just in a general sense since its been installed?? Keep in mind, I'm not the original poster (who had replaced all his/her FanLincs multiple times, etc). When I say I cycled it 20 times, I mean I changed speeds approximately that many times since I installed the one replacement FanLinc (not that I changed the speed 20 times in rapid succession). I would adjust the speed every so often and figure I did it approximately 20 times before I lost medium speed. The first day, all seemed fine. Day two, I noticed there was a humming sound that started. I'd set say high speed and there would be a hum, that would seem to get quieter as the fan came up to speed. I don't know if that's helpful information or not. There would also be a bit of a chirp (I assume from the FanLinc) when selecting the new speed. The hum is most noticeable when going from a lower speed (or off) to a higher speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Keep in mind, I'm not the original poster (who had replaced all his/her FanLincs multiple times, etc). When I say I cycled it 20 times, I mean I changed speeds approximately that many times since I installed the one replacement FanLinc (not that I changed the speed 20 times in rapid succession). I would adjust the speed every so often and figure I did it approximately 20 times before I lost medium speed. The first day, all seemed fine. Day two, I noticed there was a humming sound that started. I'd set say high speed and there would be a hum, that would seem to get quieter as the fan came up to speed. I don't know if that's helpful information or not. There would also be a bit of a chirp (I assume from the FanLinc) when selecting the new speed. The hum is most noticeable when going from a lower speed (or off) to a higher speed. Thanks for that insight ~ Let us know how the RMA goes for this unit. Until the OP started this thread I haven't seen anyone ever mention such failures in any of the forums. Then again its only been eight freaking years and no less than five hardware revisions for the 2413S PLM and they still can't get it to last 2 years!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giomania Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 My FanLinc's have never made a chirping noise when changing speeds, but the fans do typically have an audible hum on low speed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 My thoughts are the use of a Snubber would have been more beneficial than using a MOV. No one has provided factual data these failures are due to an electrical surge condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 My thoughts are the use of a Snubber would have been more beneficial than using a MOV. No one has provided factual data these failures are due to an electrical surge condition. I have to agree about the information. There has been so many reports of defective fanlincs lately. I am thinking a combination of problems since some have no problems with them. ie. weak design and bad electrical environment. ...takes two to tango. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It does sound like a weak design or maybe a almost 100% compatible parts change. Along with different motor specifications could make a designed for a most fan motor design hard to nail down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 My thoughts are the use of a Snubber would have been more beneficial than using a MOV. No one has provided factual data these failures are due to an electrical surge condition. More info on snubber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 More info on snubber? It is a series capacitor and resistor that attempts to reduce a high voltage spike. The capacitor can soften the voltage level by stretching it into a longer period time with less peak voltage and the resistor can absorb the energy by turning it into heat. They have their uses and were very popular as the best thing available before MOVs were developed. MOVs offer exact and almost absolute voltage limiting while snubbers perform based on the strength of the spike with a much softer voltage response curve, having no limiting. Both absorb unwanted energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snubber Snubber is also a generic name for the whole class of devices that perform this type of operation. MOVs (metal oxide varistors) / Transorbs are also snubbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Wouldn't such a surge cause issues with other Insteon devices? The damage caused by a surge is not predictable. It's possible for only one of two devices in the same box on the same circuit to be damaged and the other not. A lot depends on the state of a device at a particular instant, its age, even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 The ones I saw mentioned here. Where the R/C type. Capacitor and resistor in a package. Looking like a capacitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giomania Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 More info on snubber? Seinfeld EPISODE 285: THE CELL PHONE SNUBBER George has problems with his boss, who will not acknowledge George while he is on his cell phone in the office. “He’s a cell phone snubber,” laments George to Jerry. “I hate the snub. It’s incorrigible,” responds Jerry. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webminster Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 I have to agree about the information. There has been so many reports of defective fanlincs lately. I am thinking a combination of problems since some have no problems with them. ie. weak design and bad electrical environment. ...takes two to tango. Been following this thread for awhile, and have been wanting to put in a Fanlinc or two for awhile. Have the situation now where actually getting one is almost necessary. But the thread does have me worried about getting one. Are these rare cases, or am I looking at an almost-guaranteed problem by putting one in? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Been following this thread for awhile, and have been wanting to put in a Fanlinc or two for awhile. Have the situation now where actually getting one is almost necessary. But the thread does have me worried about getting one. Are these rare cases, or am I looking at an almost-guaranteed problem by putting one in? Thanks in advance. 1. Identify and confirm the fan in question meets the stated operating amperage by the maker. 2. Ensure the wiring in the home is sound and the hardware in place is fully operational. 3. Purchase a Snubber to have on hand should it be required. Installing one has very little impact on the Insteon network but does offer benefits should it be required. Di-spite, what others are recommending regarding the MOV's they offer zero solution to this matter, none. A MOV has zero impact on CEMF, Noise, and slow rise in line voltage. A Snubber offers all of the above and costs very little while offering actual results. Do you need a Snubber? 99% of the case no . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webminster Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 The fan in question (a FP4620 Fanimation Zonix) appears to say 57W at fan high speed... not sure how to calculate how that fits with the stated 1A fan limit on the Fanlinc. Thanks for the comments. A little more searching found a page of specs for the fan with a table, that looks close, appears to show the motor at 0.45A at high. So that sounds like a decent safety factor. Home is pretty new construction with otherwise no issues (presuming the new fan has none and will allow the Fanlinc some install room... guess I'll find out when I get the fanlinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Hello Jimbo, Sure, this one has been used by quite a few people in the forums: http://www.alliedelec.com/red-lion-controls-snub0000/70030263/ This specific raw part was recommended by our esteem ELA: http://www.newark.com/roxburgh/xe1201/surge-suppressor/dp/01M9475 If you simply want a clip and go the red lion is the obvious choice. But if you have a little bit of time and soldering skills the one offered by ELA at $2.28 a piece is the much better value and also offers the best Insteon spec. How does once connect such a snubber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 It's connected in parallel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Across the Fan Motor wires. Red and White wires of Fanlinc connected to the fan motor wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Thanks! I've ordered some and they should be here within a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Thanks! I've ordered some and they should be here within a week. Snubbers received. Failed FanLinc in the test mule replaced and snubber installed across motor wire/neutral. Testing started ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Keep us informed. I hope the test shows a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Keep us informed. I hope the test shows a fix. Me too! I'll definitely update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Me too! I'll definitely update. Ok, I think something very odd is going on and I'd appreciate any ideas on what to check and look for in trying to solve this. So ... I have a test KeyPadLinc Dimmer I'm using to test that's targeted for install in our office that's currently being renovated. I have it wired into a three prong plug into a simple non-surge power strip next to my workspace in the basement. Scenes are configured in the ISY for controlling the "office" fan and those include the FanLinc that I'm testing. There are four scenes, Off, Low, Med and High, each has the FanLinc motor as a responder configured for the desired speed (both for the master scene itself and the button of the KPL that controls that particular scene). I can include screenshots of those configurations if that would help. I was proceeding with my testing yesterday, just changing the fan speed every so often during the day using the KPL on my desk. The FanLinc started to exhibit the same type of little chirps as I noticed and mentioned with other FanLincs that would then fail (one or more speeds failing). So I looked closer and noticed I had the KPL disabled (but note that it WAS still controlling the fan). I enabled it and wrote updates to the KPL, but changed over to using the ISY to directly change the speed via the FanLinc itself (no scenes). I made a number of speed changes yesterday via this direct method and there were no odd chirps or other noises (hums, etc). The FanLinc was quiet when changing speeds (there is some increase in noise from the motor when changing to high speed, but I believe this is normal, at least for this fan). I haven't tried using the fan speed scenes from either the ISY or the KPL since yesterday after noticing this. Any thoughts on (1) why using a scene would make a difference and might cause failures while controlling directly would not? (2) What can or should I look at (scene configurations) or monitor while I'm making changes during my tests (eg: Event Viewer set for Device communication events to try to capture possible differences between direct device control vs scenes)? (3) Anything else anyone can think of that I'm missing or ways in which I can test? I still have two of the replacement FanLincs that are untouched at this point and it would be great to figure it out with at most one more failure I really hope this can lead to a solution for the FanLinc failures. I'm not even sure the MOV or snubber will end up being needed as this seems to be happening with those in place as well. Thanks for any suggestions and guidance. I'm going to continue testing ONLY via ISY direct device changes to the FanLinc for now to more thoroughly confirm that those continue to work and nothing fails. Perhaps it's prudent to do that for a few days more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giomania Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I use scenes just like yours, also with a KPL, and don't experience any chirping. Have you tried using the KPL since it was re-enabled? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I use scenes just like yours, also with a KPL, and don't experience any chirping. Have you tried using the KPL since it was re-enabled? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not yet as I want to do more extended testing using the direct device method first and I wanted to gather ideas on things I can monitor or check prior to doing any further testing with scenes. I'm also thinking of testing scenes via the ISY (admin console) vs a KPL as well when I do resume scene testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTinker Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 So far, all has been good using device direct commands via the ISY. Today, I'm starting on testing scenes via the ISY and we'll see how that goes, then I'll test via the KPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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