What is everyone doing for X10?

[MikeB]

With X10 support now in the ISY-26, I'm considering introducing X10 back into my system - strictly for X10 RF devices.

 

I currently have a V572A X10 transceiver (http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html) kicking around that I could use.

 

One thing I'm not up for is troubleshooting and spending money to get my X10 powerline strength up to par.

 

Am I correct in thinking that if I plug the V572A into the same outlet box as my PLM, that X10 powerline strength shouldn't be an issue? Since it will be so close on the powerline?

 

What is everyone else doing?

 

Thanks!

[Mark Sanctuary]

The only thing I have kept that is X10 is the little Infrared X10 Command Console IR-543. I have tried to get it working with my universal remote to trigger my movie time scene but so far I have not gotten it to work at all. I am trying to get it to work with it directly connected to the PLM at this time and will update when I get it working or not.

 

If
       Receive X10 House Code 'A'  Unit Code '1' Command '11 - Off'

Then
       Set  Scene 'Family Movie Time' On

[Mark Sanctuary]

I think that my PLM with its firmware 4a is having issues with the X10 stuff. It will do it one time then after that it does not work.

[Chris Jahn]

Have you tried again since the 2.4.9 drop?

 

Back in 2.4.8 the X10 messages had the same problem as non-toggle buttons, but this has been fixed in 2.4.9.

[Mark Sanctuary]

I was one of the first on the new release so yes I did it this morning.

 

Let me experiment some more and make sure I am correct.

[MikeB]

Wow, this actually has me pumped. I had pretty much given up on X10 stuff in my home.

 

I plugged my V572A in to a plug close to the ISY-26, setup a couple of test triggers, and it's working great! I also plugged in my X10 IR bridge to a different outlet, and it tests great as well.

 

This opens up a whole world of inexpensive X10 RF devices I could use. I now have use of my X10 keychain controls & palm pads again, and can start experimenting with X10 motions!

 

However - I want to put it on record here that I vow not to go down the bumpy road of X10 powerline devices. I don't have energy or desire to deal with any issues that crop up. I vow to only use RF!

 

Probably.

 

Maybe.

[sceaton]

I agree that my

 

Pronto TSU7000 -> IR543 -> ISY -> Insteon

 

works great!

 

I used the X10 IR remote to learn the codes to my pronto. With the pronto's RF -> IR extender, I don't even point the pronto ... I can walk around the house firing off different scenes in the ISY from my pronto touch screen.

 

(Including X10 in the ISY was the tipping point for my ISY purchase! My outdoor hawkeye motion sensors work again too!)

 

Cheers!

 

~shawn

[MikeB]

(Including X10 in the ISY was the tipping point for my ISY purchase! My outdoor hawkeye motion sensors work again too!)

 

I agree. When people were requesting X10 support, I thought it was a waste of time. Now that it's implemented I think it's great.

[Chris Jahn]

In the next drop, you can log to the java console the key presses/X10 messages received by ISY from the PLM. This should help diagnose problems with your programs vs. problems with the network.

 

On a side note ...

 

Looking for opinions on displaying X10.

 

We currently have the format in Program B, but I prefer Program A.

I just wanted to get a couple of opinions before changing it.

 

Program A

If
       (
            X10 'A.1.3 - On' is Received
         Or X10 'A.2.3 - On' is Received
         Or Control 'Keypad' is switched On
       )
   And X10 A.1.11 - Off is not Received
   And X10 A.2.11 - Off is not Received
   And Control 'Keypad' is not switched Fast On

Then
       Send X10 'C.4.3 - On'
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' On

Else
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' Off
       Send X10 'C.4.11 - Off'

 

 

Program B

If
       (
            X10 House 'A' Unit '1' Command '3 - On' is Received
         Or X10 House 'A' Unit '2' Command '3 - On' is Received
         Or Control 'Keypad' is switched On
       )
   And X10 House 'A' Unit '1' Command '11 - Off' is not Received
   And X10 House 'A' Unit '2' Command '11 - Off' is not Received
   And Control 'Keypad' is not switched Fast On

Then
       Send X10 House 'C' Unit '4' Command '3 - On'
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' On

Else
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' Off
       Send X10 House 'C' Unit '4' Command '11 - Off'

[MikeB]

I think either is fine. If it saves some memory in the ISY-26, I would certainly go with Program A.

 

Or, maybe something like this would be a bit easier to read:

 

If 
       ( 
            X10 'A.1.3(On)' is Received 
         Or X10 'A.2.3(On)' is Received 
         Or Control 'Keypad' is switched On 
       ) 
   And X10 A.1.11(Off) is not Received 
   And X10 A.2.11(Off) is not Received 
   And Control 'Keypad' is not switched Fast On 

Then 
       Send X10 'C.4.3(On)' 
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' On 

Else 
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' Off 
       Send X10 'C.4.11(Off)' 

[GPG]

I would prefer format 'A'.

 

I would not object if it was even simplified more:

 

from:

Or X10 'A.2.3 - On' is Received

 

to:

Or X10 'A.2 - On' is Received

 

Just as long as the meaning of the code (On, Fast On, Off, etc.) is included.

[sceaton]

I agree with MikeB ...

 

I'm not familiar with the details of X10, but I assume that the final number correlates to the command (3=ON, 11=OFF) if this is the case, MikeB's "connects" the final 3 with it's definition better.

 

'A.1.3 - On' this makes it seem like A.1.3 is a device that then sent an On command. Really (i think) it's A.1 that sent a 3 command, with 3 defined as "On".

 

Taking it further, the 3 is not of use to me personally, so I'd be fine with

'A.1(On)' 'A.1(Off)' etc ..

 

just my $.02

 

And of course, if my initial assumption isn't correct, ignore this completely.

[Chris Jahn]

I would like to keep the command number in there, just in case people are debugging a program and need to know the actual number. We only store the A.1.3 on the box itself, so there is no memory problem with longer messages.

 

Based on your ideas, I think the following is probably the best way to go:

 

If
    X10 'A.2 - On (3)' is Received
 Or X10 'A.2 - All Lights On (5) ' is Received 

Then
    Send X10 'C.4 - On (3)'

[GPG]

Good choice. It covers all bases.

[Algorithm]

Sorry for the late input. In the X-10 world, the 'group' (housecode) is designated by a letter, and the 'unit' by a number, thus making them easy to distinguish; the 'control' is usually written as a word, but internally represented by a number. I agree with Chris that the control code is needed for debugging. But, the English word is easier for the user to understand, so I would prefer something like this:

 

If
       (
            X10 'A1/On (3)' is Received
         Or X10 'A2/On (3)' is Received
         Or Control 'Keypad' is switched On
       )
   And X10 'A1/Off (11)' is not Received
   And X10 'A2/Off (11)' is not Received
   And Control 'Keypad' is not switched Fast On

Then
       Send X10 'C4/On (3)'
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' On

Else
       Set '0A.B9.44.1' Off
       Send X10 'C4/Off (11)'

[jgraziano]

Wow, this actually has me pumped. I had pretty much given up on X10 stuff in my home.

 

I plugged my V572A in to a plug close to the ISY-26, setup a couple of test triggers, and it's working great! I also plugged in my X10 IR bridge to a different outlet, and it tests great as well.

 

This opens up a whole world of inexpensive X10 RF devices I could use. I now have use of my X10 keychain controls & palm pads again, and can start experimenting with X10 motions!

 

However - I want to put it on record here that I vow not to go down the bumpy road of X10 powerline devices. I don't have energy or desire to deal with any issues that crop up. I vow to only use RF!

 

Probably.

 

Maybe.

 

Mike, I'm trying to decide which way to go for IR interface. I'm thinking about getting a Harmony 1000.

I could trade up to 99 in a month or so, or I could wait for the IRLinc, which I think will take longer than they say and I don't even know if it will trigger ISY programs.

If I make the jump now, do you know what the most reliable system is. I would assume it would involve X10 at this point and thus require an IR extender to get the X10 signals close to the ISY, but what is the best IR>X10 bridge that will work with the Harmony, do you think?

 

Thanks!

[MikeB]

Mike, I'm trying to decide which way to go for IR interface. I'm thinking about getting a Harmony 1000.

I could trade up to 99 in a month or so, or I could wait for the IRLinc, which I think will take longer than they say and I don't even know if it will trigger ISY programs.

If I make the jump now, do you know what the most reliable system is. I would assume it would involve X10 at this point and thus require an IR extender to get the X10 signals close to the ISY, but what is the best IR>X10 bridge that will work with the Harmony, do you think?

 

Hey Jim -

 

I'm using my Harmony 880 with the ISY-99's IR, and love it. Very responsive, very reliable, very flexible. If you're considering moving up to the ISY-99, you might want to check and see if UDI still has any beta units left for sale.

 

Otherwise, I think the only shipping IR interface would be the X10 IR543. I actually have one up for sale on Cocoontech. If you can get a consistent powerline X10 signal to your PLM/ISY-26, it should work well - but with a second or 2 delay compared with a native Insteon solution.

[jgraziano]

I'd rather not fool with the beta for now, as I am out of town a lot.

I am assuming I would just use the 543 as the IR>X10 bridge? I have a branch in my family room that is pretty solid. I have an X10 16 button ultrasonic controller/remote (you heard me right!) that started out 100% but lately has been getting intermittent in reliability to the ISY. But the ISY X10 signals coming back to that same branch which control the fireplace and digital picture frame are still 100%.

So what you are saying is that I can try replacing the 16 button controller with the 543. If it is reliable, fine, if not reposition it very close to the PLM and use an IR extender (powermid or whatever) to get the Harmony signal there? Does it only do one house code? So that would be only 16 controls, unless you split them up.

Does the Harmony have a built-in code set or is it best to 'learn'?

I don't mind the second or two delay as long as I know it's going to work.

 

Thanks for the help.

[MikeB]

I'd rather not fool with the beta for now, as I am out of town a lot.

 

To be honest, I think a beta ISY-99 would probably be more stable than an X10 solution. Keep in mind that the ISY-99 is pretty much an ISY-26 Part II - pretty much the same firmware, but with the addition of IR support. And IR control for me has been rock solid.

 

So what you are saying is that I can try replacing the 16 button controller with the 543. If it is reliable, fine, if not reposition it very close to the PLM and use an IR extender (powermid or whatever) to get the Harmony signal there?

 

Yes, that sounds right.

 

Does it only do one house code? So that would be only 16 controls, unless you split them up.

 

You select the house code via a dial on the unit. The device has built-in hard buttons you can use to send unit codes 1-8. However, the IR port will accept unit codes 1-16. I'm not sure if you can use an IR remote to send house codes other than what's currently selected. So you may be right about the 16 code limit. However, I'm pretty sure I've used it in the past with various house codes on a single remote/IR543.

 

Does the Harmony have a built-in code set or is it best to 'learn'?

 

My Harmony 880 has the IR543 in its database.

 

 

 

I don't mind the second or two delay as long as I know it's going to work.

 

If it's important to you, you may want to look into how bright/dim commands would work. That could be an issue.

[Algorithm]

Does it only do one house code?

 

Jim, the IR543 does only a single housecode. The IR543AH will do all 16 housecodes, but is much more expensive. Smarthome has the former for $30, but doesn't have the latter (that I could find). AutomatedOutlet has the former for $20, and the latter for $90.

[jgraziano]

Yeah, $90 is a bit steep for something I may toss if/when I go to 99. Mike has a 543 for $12, I wouldn't feel so bad.

[Algorithm]

Yeah, $90 is a bit steep for something I may toss if/when I go to 99. Mike has a 543 for $12, I wouldn't feel so bad.

 

Jim, go for it! If you wish to use it just for your home theatre room, 16 codes (one housecode) may be more than enough. If you find later you want more, well $12 wasn't too steep an investment.

[MikeB]

Jim, the IR543 does only a single housecode. The IR543AH will do all 16 housecodes, but is much more expensive. Smarthome has the former for $30, but doesn't have the latter (that I could find). AutomatedOutlet has the former for $20, and the latter for $90.

 

Huh.... I read up on it, and confirmed what you wrote - but I could have SWORN when I was using this I had my theater lights on A1 and A2, and my driveway lights on B1 and B2 and I was able to control them through my Harmony remote without flipping the house code on the IR543. If I had time I'd set it up again to verify.... but mine definitely says just IR543 on the bottom.

[jgraziano]

Mike, the used 2440 you have, are there any firmware issues with the age? Were there any revisions since you bought that one?

 

Do you have a paypal account?

 

Thanks.

[MikeB]

Hey Jim -

 

I'm not aware of any firmware issues with RemoteLincs. All of mine seem to performed equally, and I've never read of any substantial changes.

 

The used one does, however, say rev 0.92. My new one says rev 1.0.

 

Yes, I do have a PayPal account. Feel free to PM me.