Lights "flash" every 30 seconds to 1 minute.

[nickp]

Hey Guys.

 

So, I replaced the lights and switches in the master bedroom.
Previous to this, I have made the same changes to my Son's bedroom.

 

So, in the master bedroom, when the lights are on dim, they flash (think of someone taking a photo with a flash) every XX minutes.

It's not constant, but it is continuous. 

My son does not have the issue in his room, and he has the same bulbs and KPL.

 

I'm not sure if it's the bulbs (doubt it, all 4 seem to do it) or the KPL (possibly, I can change it out) or a wiring issue that we were previously unaware of.

I use the same brand light bulbs (FEIT PAR40 dimmable) almost everywhere in my house.

This seems to happen most when the LED's are dimmed to ~50%.

 

Really not sure what to troubleshoot here.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks, Nick.

[larryllix]

Watch your icons on the program tree in the admin console.

You probably have a program in some timed loop oscillating.

 

If you see one flashing green or red solid then it is repeatedly running that section. Dig there.

[stusviews]

Replace one LED bulb with an incandescent bulb. Does the flashing cease?

[nickp]

No programs running.

The only programs I have running in the master bedroom run on OFF and FAST OFF.

OFF turns off the bathroom and closet.

FAST OFF turns off all house lights (ie, a GoodNight mode.)

 

The wife thinks it's just a couple of bulbs - I have spares and will replace.

While I like the idea of putting in incandescent, I have gone through a lot to be "allowed" to put in LED bulbs, and do not want to remind her what the old bulbs were like.  

Other than that, as I said, I can also replace the KPL.

 

I'll let you know the results.

 

Thanks, Nick.

[larryllix]

No programs running.

The only programs I have running in the master bedroom run on OFF and FAST OFF.

OFF turns off the bathroom and closet.

FAST OFF turns off all house lights (ie, a GoodNight mode.)

 

The wife thinks it's just a couple of bulbs - I have spares and will replace.

While I like the idea of putting in incandescent, I have gone through a lot to be "allowed" to put in LED bulbs, and do not want to remind her what the old bulbs were like.

Other than that, as I said, I can also replace the KPL.

 

I'll let you know the results.

 

Thanks, Nick.

No.

You replace one bulb with incandescent for a trial only

[Teken]

Having used a variety of FEIT bulbs in many installations this brand has some of the worst quality and dimming capabilities. It should also be noted there are only a few Insteon devices which state LED..

 

Neither the switch linc, keypad linc 6 / 8 button dimmers formally support LED fixtures. The only device advertised as such is the legacy Inline Linc (ILL) dimmer: http://www.smarthome.com/in-linelinc-dimmer-insteon-2475da1-remote-control-in-line-dimmer-dual-band.html

 

Having said all of this many of us have had great success using LED bulbs from various manufactures. I've had great results with Sylvania, Phillips, Lighting Science Inc (LSI), and my go to brand Luminus. None of these bulbs pulse, strobe, buzz, hum, or interject line noise into the power line.

 

All of them dim smoothly to 5-10% with out the standard choppy affair many other brands do. One key thing about some of these bulbs such as Cree or those Eco line offered by HD. Many of them simply burn up or emit tremendous RFI into the air when they are about to explode.

 

Don't have to ask how I know this . . . 

[larryllix]

Cree seemed like and excellent bulb and had good reviews. However I beleive this attitude has switched sides after a few month of usage.

 

Of my aprox. 10 Cree bulbs, half of them have bit the dust, or are acting up with flickering at certain, or all brightness levels.

 

I also have some bad ones from dollar store bargains tha take time to illuminate.

 

My Feit and Luminus have been good.

 

I always buy dimmable bulbs now. I feel they have better filtering capacitors installed.

[G W]

Interesting. I have 97 FEIT bulbs I bought at Costco in 2015 and very early 2016. They have been working perfectly on SwitchLinc Dimmers and KeypadLinc Dimmers. I've had one go bad in in 11 months use.

 

Maybe it's due to the clean Rocky Mountain Spring Water generating clean Rocky Mountain Spring Power.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

[larryllix]

CRI 92 just started here.

 

But the eficiency dropped from a 60W equiv. being about 5 watts to 9.5W now.

[nickp]

I purchased some Sylvania bulbs, and installed them into the MasterBedroom.

I'll give it a week, and let you know.

 

Lowes Link.

They do have a nice color (yellow at startup - the wife will like that.)

They were $18 for 2, so under $10 each.

Free shipping.

[larryllix]

I have noticed when they dont have a higher CRI they never mention it in the specs.

[mguebert]

I purchased some Sylvania bulbs, and installed them into the MasterBedroom.

I'll give it a week, and let you know.

 

Lowes Link.

They do have a nice color (yellow at startup - the wife will like that.)

They were $18 for 2, so under $10 each.

Free shipping.

 

I had a similar issue, through a lot of time consuming trial and error I was able to determine is was a computer UPS injecting noise into the circuit. I bought a smart home 

PRODUCT NAME SKU PRICE QTY SUBTOTAL Subtotal $39.29 Shipping & Handling $10.86 Grand Total $50.15 ACT AF120 15-Amp Plug-In Noise Filter

 

It doesn't appear to be available anymore, but it fixed my issue with flickering lights.

[apostolakisl]

CREE led review:

 

NO GOOD!!!  

 

At least not the A19 ones.  The CR6 and the Cree ceiling trophers have been perfect.  zero failures with many years of use at this point and extensive deployment in my home and office.  6 of the CR6's are shining on me right now and they are 4 years old.  But the a19 ones are crap.  Lots of failures between 6 months and 18 months of age.  20 years my ***.  And they just want you to mail the bulb back with the original receipt and bar code if not satisfied.  Sure, don't we all keep those around?  Plus postage.  That warranty is worth less than the piece of paper they print it on.  While I do have quite a few a19's that haven't failed, I would say 25% have failed prior to their second birthday where they were deployed in indoor, unsealed fixtures.  I have a 100% failure rate on the 100 watt eq ones. (4 for 4).

 

Oh, yeah, back to the OP.

 

Swap the bulbs with the ones in your son's room that you know have been good.  See if the problem follows the bulb or stays put.  If it stays put, try swapping the KPL between you and your son's room.  Again, see if the problem stays at the fixture or follows the KPL.  If it stays at the fixture, well, I guess you have something with the wiring, as unlikely as that seems.  It could be that you swap the switches and both work fine, in which case you might have had a loose wire nut screw down.

[Teken]

CREE led review:

 

NO GOOD!!!  

 

At least not the A19 ones.  The CR6 and the Cree ceiling trophers have been perfect.  zero failures with many years of use at this point and extensive deployment in my home and office.  6 of the CR6's are shining on me right now and they are 4 years old.  But the a19 ones are crap.  Lots of failures between 6 months and 18 months of age.  20 years my ***.  And they just want you to mail the bulb back with the original receipt and bar code if not satisfied.  Sure, don't we all keep those around?  Plus postage.  That warranty is worth less than the piece of paper they print it on.  While I do have quite a few a19's that haven't failed, I would say 25% have failed prior to their second birthday where they were deployed in indoor, unsealed fixtures.  I have a 100% failure rate on the 100 watt eq ones. (4 for 4).

 

 

 

When the message came into my phone the first portion is the only part I saw. I burst out laughing as others around me just looked all confused.

 

LOL . . .

 

From past experience some of the first and second generation Cree bulbs seemed to operate just fine. I don't recall which model / hardware revision it was but they continue to operate quite well and none of sites have reported a failure yet going on 4-5 years now.

 

It seems to me the ones that came into HD which many bought are the models which were created to fit a dollar value both for the consumer and the retailer. It really comes as no great surprise they incorporate either cheap parts or missing parts which would allow them to operate much longer.

 

Even though in my home I haven't seen a failure in terms of LED bulbs / fixtures. I highly doubt any of these bulbs will ever offer 15-25 years of service life. I would love to be proven wrong on this point but we as a society have pushed for the disposable world because price matters most to a large percentage of the general public.

 

In my experience people will only spend more (IF) they have seen first hand why spending less results in wasted dollars, resources, time, etc. I'm guilty of that very scenario where I believed some XX device would offer me just as much value and performance when in reality it was just an exercise in learning about waste.

 

I must have spent the first 1/4 of my life trying to save that virtual nickle to be honest.

 

Now, I spend what ever it takes to get the job done the first go round . . .

 

As of this writing I haven't wasted anymore money replacing sub par parts / hardware because it just works. There isn't that nagging feeling of *What If, did I make the right decision, what did I trade off, how much did I compromise*.

 

As an aside one of my side hobbies in the GWN has been to conduct long term extreme weather testing on various devices and hardware. At this very moment we've seen many days of -20 to -26'C with a windchill of -36'C. One of the tests have been to see how the Luminus, Phillips LED bulbs operate and perform in these frigid weather conditions.

 

The Luminus bulbs indicate a operating range down to -40'C so don't suspect they will have too much issue working in my environment. The Phillips LED however are not rated that far and only (believe) to be rated for -25'C. So I won't hold anything against the product if it goes pop in the next month or so as we get into the really deep freeze of -35'C to -46'C.

 

I don't know how much actual cold weather testing any of these companies do. But I plan on sending them both a copy of my tests and results after the winter ends. In the past doing so has resulted in great feed back from the vendor and many times they offer insight not known to the general public. I don't believe there is anything better a person can do but to help another do better . . . 

[apostolakisl]

When the message came into my phone the first portion is the only part I saw. I burst out laughing as others around me just looked all confused.

 

LOL . . .

 

From past experience some of the first and second generation Cree bulbs seemed to operate just fine. I don't recall which model / hardware revision it was but they continue to operate quite well and none of sites have reported a failure yet going on 4-5 years now.

 

It seems to me the ones that came into HD which many bought are the models which were created to fit a dollar value both for the consumer and the retailer. It really comes as no great surprise they incorporate either cheap parts or missing parts which would allow them to operate much longer.

 

Even though in my home I haven't seen a failure in terms of LED bulbs / fixtures. I highly doubt any of these bulbs will ever offer 15-25 years of service life. I would love to be proven wrong on this point but we as a society have pushed for the disposable world because price matters most to a large percentage of the general public.

 

In my experience people will only spend more (IF) they have seen first hand why spending less results in wasted dollars, resources, time, etc. I'm guilty of that very scenario where I believed some XX device would offer me just as much value and performance when in reality it was just an exercise in learning about waste.

 

I must have spent the first 1/4 of my life trying to save that virtual nickle to be honest.

 

Now, I spend what ever it takes to get the job done the first go round . . .

 

As of this writing I haven't wasted anymore money replacing sub par parts / hardware because it just works. There isn't that nagging feeling of *What If, did I make the right decision, what did I trade off, how much did I compromise*.

 

As an aside one of my side hobbies in the GWN has been to conduct long term extreme weather testing on various devices and hardware. At this very moment we've seen many days of -20 to -26'C with a windchill of -36'C. One of the tests have been to see how the Luminus, Phillips LED bulbs operate and perform in these frigid weather conditions.

 

The Luminus bulbs indicate a operating range down to -40'C so don't suspect they will have too much issue working in my environment. The Phillips LED however are not rated that far and only (believe) to be rated for -25'C. So I won't hold anything against the product if it goes pop in the next month or so as we get into the really deep freeze of -35'C to -46'C.

 

I don't know how much actual cold weather testing any of these companies do. But I plan on sending them both a copy of my tests and results after the winter ends. In the past doing so has resulted in great feed back from the vendor and many times they offer insight not known to the general public. I don't believe there is anything better a person can do but to help another do better . . . 

I had had such good results with the CR6 and LED troffers that I thought the world of the CREE brand so thought it was a good investment.  But the A19 HD bulbs busted that.  Obviously they are made with a very different mindset of quality/cost.  At this point I'm not sure where to go with my A19 purchases, but it won't be Cree.  On the flip side, the Cree led ceiling troffers really are nice.  I have one fixture that per fire code stays on 24/7.  So this is an interesting way to compare how the leds age.  Currently 4 years out and there is no visible difference between the 24/7 fixture and the ~60 hours per week fixtures adjacent to it.  They use 1/2 the electricity of the fluoro's and didn't cost that much more money.  And I am very pleased with the color rendering and brightness.  

[Teken]

That is a fantastic real world test for sure given most manufactures base their so called XX years service life on 3 hours per day use. Assuming you had lots of these regular incandescent bulbs all left on to meet fire codes.

 

I can only imagine the savings and the ROI for a LED vs Incandescent.

 

Good stuff, thanks for the insight . . .

[larryllix]

I share the same experience with apostolakisl in regards to the CREE A19 bulbs. Half of my CREE bulbs have become landfill.

 

I do have one Par38 bulb that has also become defective and that one really irks me at about the $40 price range. Lasted about 6 months.

 

Cheap power supply capacitors causing flickering and dips with slight voltage fluctuations, mostly.

[apostolakisl]

Speak of the devil.  Another Cree A19 just died.  This one was lasted about 3,000 hours.  Just a little short of advertised. /sarcasm.

[Brian H]

I have had some Cree A19 bulbs start flickering or going On and Off as they warmed up.

 

I took the shell of of a few and found an issue.

Cree used a nice set of spring clips to make connection between the driver board and the LED assembly. Well the contact pads on the driver board and LED assembly where Tinned. They starting to pit and arc from the driver current.

All of mine where removed from use.

 

They also didn't have a good power supply in them and there was a large amount of 60 cycle hum on the light output. Enough to make a table fan show a strobe effect when running.

 

Anyone trying to check them out. The DC voltage on the LED board is around 120VDC running and about 185VDC if the LED board is not making good connection and the caps will hold a surprise for you if touched.   

[Teken]

Speak of the devil. Another Cree A19 just died. This one was lasted about 3,000 hours. Just a little short of advertised. /sarcasm.

Can you offer a little more insight about *Just Died*? . Like dead no more light or just random behavior?

 

Could you also offer what it says for model and hardware version. I'm interested to compare a few sites with what is being reported as failing. As noted several locations have been going strong for about 3-4 years now.

[apostolakisl]

Can you offer a little more insight about *Just Died*? . Like dead no more light or just random behavior?

 

Could you also offer what it says for model and hardware version. I'm interested to compare a few sites with what is being reported as failing. As noted several locations have been going strong for about 3-4 years now.

It has the following printed on it

 

BA19-08027omf-12de26-1u_00

 

By died I mean it doesn't make any light.  It does ever so slightly show a little flicker of light when you first turn it on.

[Brian H]

This is the number on one of mine. That started flickering then died.

BA19-080270MN-12DE26

[apostolakisl]

Just bought a Sylvania 60 watt led warm white to replace it.  $3 at Lowes.  It is one of a pair of bulbs flanking my garage doors in a coach light fixture.  The other side is still the Cree.  I can't see any difference in color or brightness.

[shannong]

I had a house full of Cree LEDs (ceiling cans with 2-6 bulbs on each switch) that I just bought before starting my HA endeavor that were flashing with Insteon traffic. I was sooo frustrated that I just spent $1500 on light bulbs that would need to be replaced. However, I found that if I replaced just one bulb on each switch with a different LED bulb then it stopped. I validated this several times so it wasn't just a single happenstance. I picked a bulb that matched brightness and color and didn't do any "compatibility" testing.

[Teken]

It has the following printed on it

 

BA19-08027omf-12de26-1u_00

 

By died I mean it doesn't make any light.  It does ever so slightly show a little flicker of light when you first turn it on.

 

So one has to ask is anyone going to bother with the warranty exchange? Most of the warranties state you must offer the sales receipt, UPC code, and ship the item on your dime.

 

Given most of us can find a decent LED bulb now for about $2-8.XX is the cost for postage, time, aggravation worth it? Speaking for myself only if I had a whole box that might be worth it because it would be a one shot deal. But to send in one single bulb at a Canada Post rate of at least $12.XX not even worth the time or effort never mind fuel!