Workaround for Low Voltage Fireplace Switch

[stusviews]

How old are you? Like dinosaur old?

 

Older than dinosaurs. And, yes, I've acted as my own lawyer--and won--more than once. I also spent 4 years in the USAF, was a specialist in tuning multiple carburetors and had a stint as a professional photographer. Even more. Actually, I'm 78.7 and right now I'm getting ready to party

 

Oh, my post-baccalaureate degree is from UCLA (after completing my under graduate degree from Uppsala University in Sweden). Wow, I've had a busy life. Still at it.

 

Edit: may as well mention that  a few days ago my (2^nd) wife and I celebrated our anniversary--you probably guessed it--two decades.

 

Disclaimer: not everything was sequential.

[Scottmichaelj]

OK So it seems I must have jinxed myself. I cant seem to get my IOLinc relay to turn on my fireplace.

 

See above post for pix how I had it hooked up, but have N/O and common going to the fireplace and Ground/Sense from the switch. Worked fine for years this way.

 

Things I tested:

 

-Switch will turn on the relay and sensor nodes and I am seeing the changes of ON/OFF status on the LED on the IOLINC and in the admin window so the connections are working. 

-Double checked the IOLinc options and reset latching for 10s (nothing has changed and its always been this way)

-Removing the IOLinc and putting the switch wires direct to the fireplace connections that were on the N/O and Common will make the fireplace turn on and off via the switch manually.

-Replaced the IOLinc with a backup, zero change.

 

So could both my IOLincs be bad? Thats a hell of a coincidence but possible, I guess but if they were bad the switch wouldnt turn it on/off and admin panel show it working. Or at least I would have communication errors or something you would think? If the igniter on the fireplace or any other part on the fireplace was bad the manual switch/connection shouldnt work either right?

 

Suggestions?

 

EDIT: Showing full 120V AV power at the plug and the motorized blower fan is working when in manual switching mode like it should too.

[stusviews]

You can't set latching the 10 seconds. Latching either stays on or off. Only the momentary option can be set to a particular time.

 

Correct any errors:

 

The NO and common from the I/O Linc are connected ti where the original switch connected.

The original switch is connected to the I/O Linc sense terminals.

When you turn on the switch, the green sense LED is lit and the white relay LED is lit, but the fireplace doesn't turn on.

 

Try this: turn the switch off (the green LED is unlit). Tap the set button. What is the result? Can you hear the relay click?

[carealtor]

In the Options window for the IOLinc there is a check box for "Relay Follows Input".  Mine started to work when I checked this box.

[Scottmichaelj]

You can't set latching the 10 seconds. Latching either stays on or off. Only the momentary option can be set to a particular time.

 

Correct any errors:

 

The NO and common from the I/O Linc are connected ti where the original switch connected.

The original switch is connected to the I/O Linc sense terminals.

When you turn on the switch, the green sense LED is lit and the white relay LED is lit, but the fireplace doesn't turn on.

 

Try this: turn the switch off (the green LED is unlit). Tap the set button. What is the result? Can you hear the relay click?

 

All above was correct as posted. The sense is working when the switch is also turned on/off as mentioned too. 

 

The switch off and pressing the side button I can not hear the relay click on either IOLIncs. Both bad?

 

In the Options window for the IOLinc there is a check box for "Relay Follows Input".  Mine started to work when I checked this box.

 

Thanks, tried this as well, no luck. Relay was following sensor so not sure why this option is there unless my units are older and this changes on newer models?

 

Hmm these are the only two I have too! Guess my only option is replacing them.

[larryllix]

All above was correct as posted. The sense is working when the switch is also turned on/off as mentioned too. 

 

The switch off and pressing the side button I can not hear the relay click on either IOLIncs. Both bad?

 

 

Thanks, tried this as well, no luck. Relay was following sensor so not sure why this option is there unless my units are older and this changes on newer models?

 

Hmm these are the only two I have too! Guess my only option is replacing them.

Are you running the 5 vdc from the ioLinc across the room to a Decora switch or thermostat?

 

You may need to replace or clean the contacts or retighten the connections after a summer of humidity. It doesn't take much for the very low voltage used for the sensing to "get lost", especially if used with normally 120vac device contacts.

 

It may be possible to get a shot of contact cleaner into the device. You have lots of contacts though.

[Teken]

Hard reset one of the I/O Lincs and complete a restore and report back what happens. The very fact the relay doesn't activate leads to a lock up or bad unit.

 

Hard resetting and software restore is free - just cost some time . . .

[Scottmichaelj]

Are you running the 5 vdc from the ioLinc across the room to a Decora switch or thermostat?

 

You may need to replace or clean the contacts or retighten the connections after a summer of humidity. It doesn't take much for the very low voltage used for the sensing to "get lost", especially if used with normally 120vac device contacts.

 

It may be possible to get a shot of contact cleaner into the device. You have lots of contacts though.

 

Thanks Larry no change.

 

Hard reset one of the I/O Lincs and complete a restore and report back what happens. The very fact the relay doesn't activate leads to a lock up or bad unit.

 

Hard resetting and software restore is free - just cost some time . . .

 

Unpluged I/O Linc for about 10 seconds, then while holding down the Set button, plugged I/O Linc back in, making sure not to let go of the Set button. Then continued to hold down the Set button for 3 seconds the I/O Linc Status LED will flashed once and then turned off for a few seconds. I/O Linc will beeped as its Status LED turned back on. Reset it a couple times (didnt try this before) but no change. 

 

Just to confirm though as Stu said, and IIRC, anytime you tap the set button ON/OFF you will hear a "Click" when the relay turns on/off correct? I don't hear a click for either IOLincs, so I may have duds. I think I give up and will contact Smarthome for replacements. Although I would love to hear back confirmation that indeed I should here the relay make a "click" sound on the IOLinc when pressing the set button on/off.

[stusviews]

If you have an ohmmeter, then you could check for continuity across Common and NO (0 ohms when the LED is lit, infinity when unlit) and between Common and NC (0 ohms when the LED is unlit, infinity when lit).

[Teken]

Thanks Larry no change.

 

 

Unpluged I/O Linc for about 10 seconds, then while holding down the Set button, plugged I/O Linc back in, making sure not to let go of the Set button. Then continued to hold down the Set button for 3 seconds the I/O Linc Status LED will flashed once and then turned off for a few seconds. I/O Linc will beeped as its Status LED turned back on. Reset it a couple times (didnt try this before) but no change. 

 

Just to confirm though as Stu said, and IIRC, anytime you tap the set button ON/OFF you will hear a "Click" when the relay turns on/off correct? I don't hear a click for either IOLincs, so I may have duds. I think I give up and will contact Smarthome for replacements. Although I would love to hear back confirmation that indeed I should here the relay make a "click" sound on the IOLinc when pressing the set button on/off.

 

Yes, pressing the black set button should make the relay open and close. I audible click should be heard if its operating correctly. Its incredible bad luck two exact same devices just failed though.

 

But then again I just saw five different devices in my home just take a complete dump. None of them are related to Insteon or anything but it does bring to the for front of why having so many electronic *things* is a recipe for disaster / long term costs. I plan on blogging about all the failures I have seen in my other install thread as some of the failures really pissed me off!   

[larryllix]

Thanks Larry no change.

 

 

 

Unpluged I/O Linc for about 10 seconds, then while holding down the Set button, plugged I/O Linc back in, making sure not to let go of the Set button. Then continued to hold down the Set button for 3 seconds the I/O Linc Status LED will flashed once and then turned off for a few seconds. I/O Linc will beeped as its Status LED turned back on. Reset it a couple times (didnt try this before) but no change.

 

Just to confirm though as Stu said, and IIRC, anytime you tap the set button ON/OFF you will hear a "Click" when the relay turns on/off correct? I don't hear a click for either IOLincs, so I may have duds. I think I give up and will contact Smarthome for replacements. Although I would love to hear back confirmation that indeed I should here the relay make a "click" sound on the IOLinc when pressing the set button on/off.

Backing up a bit I realised I may not have been too clear on my last post.

The contacts I was referring to were the Wall Switch contacts and you didn;t answer the question about how you are running the ioLinc.

 

Anyway, what happens when you operate the ioLinc from the admin console, and what happens after you operate it and then query it?

 

Something is really strange about this due to

- two units simultaneously leading one to conclude...

- some power spikes got into the electronics but the odd part is your fireplace is likely an isolated millivolt circuit and not liekly to attract a flash through from a powerline spike.

 

We don't know the setup you are using.

[Scottmichaelj]

 

If you have an ohmmeter, then you could check for continuity across Common and NO (0 ohms when the LED is lit, infinity when unlit) and between Common and NC (0 ohms when the LED is unlit, infinity when lit).

Thanks I will give this a try.

 

 

Yes, pressing the black set button should make the relay open and close. I audible click should be heard if its operating correctly. Its incredible bad luck two exact same devices just failed though.

 

But then again I just saw five different devices in my home just take a complete dump. None of them are related to Insteon or anything but it does bring to the for front of why having so many electronic *things* is a recipe for disaster / long term costs. I plan on blogging about all the failures I have seen in my other install thread as some of the failures really pissed me off!

 

Yeah you know Murphy's law? Not just him either!

 

Backing up a bit I realised I may not have been too clear on my last post.

The contacts I was referring to were the Wall Switch contacts and you didn;t answer the question about how you are running the ioLinc.

 

Anyway, what happens when you operate the ioLinc from the admin console, and what happens after you operate it and then query it?

 

Something is really strange about this due to

- two units simultaneously leading one to conclude...

- some power spikes got into the electronics but the odd part is your fireplace is likely an isolated millivolt circuit and not liekly to attract a flash through from a powerline spike.

 

We don't know the setup you are using.

 

Everything works like it "should" except the load not turning on. The plug is fine since the blower fan works. I also used a plug tester and the plug is fine. The fireplace works back in original manual setup.

 

I will have to get my meter out like Stu said. I figured since I didnt hear the relay click assumed both were just bad. But you know what they say about when you "assume"!

[Teken]

Larry asked what happens when you try to control it via the Admin Console. Does the I/O Linc operate then? If you hard reset and restored the device and neither manual vs remote control makes the relay click.

 

Its safe to say its gone bad  . . .

 

If after you complete the tests offered by Stu if you feel handy you could take it apart and see if there is anything obviously blown inside. I don't recall if that device has a fuse if so that would be a good start. My next step would be to replace the capacitors and if that didn't work move toward replacing the relay.

 

Given how cheap the capacitors, relays, and other components are it might be worthy of a few hours of work. This assumes you're handy in this area but if not drop a few Benjamins and be done with it!

 

Ha . . .

[Scottmichaelj]

Larry asked what happens when you try to control it via the Admin Console. Does the I/O Linc operate then? If you hard reset and restored the device and neither manual vs remote control makes the relay click.

 

Its safe to say its gone bad . . .

 

If after you complete the tests offered by Stu if you feel handy you could take it apart and see if there is anything obviously blown inside. I don't recall if that device has a fuse if so that would be a good start. My next step would be to replace the capacitors and if that didn't work move toward replacing the relay.

 

Given how cheap the capacitors, relays, and other components are it might be worthy of a few hours of work. This assumes you're handy in this area but if not drop a few Benjamins and be done with it!

 

Ha . . .

I believe they are both bad. I tested with a meter and the reading didn't change on/off. I did say in my initials first post that in the admin console will control the on and off like it should also the sense was working as well. So that was answered and my initial post I thought was pretty detailed and took most of the steps reasonable to troubleshoot. Stu brought up the meter which I didnt do and Larry mentioned cleaning the contacts so for a shot did that too. Nada.

 

That being said I am not going to keep spending time to diagnose a $40 IOLinc. I ordered two from Amazon which should be here Saturday. Ill toss one in and see what happens and report back.

[Teken]

I believe they are both bad. I tested with a meter and the reading didn't change on/off. I did say in my initials first post that in the admin console will control the on and off like it should also the sense was working as well. So that was answered and my initial post I thought was pretty detailed and took most of the steps reasonable to troubleshoot. Stu brought up the meter which I didnt do and Larry mentioned cleaning the contacts so for a shot did that too. Nada.

 

That being said I am not going to keep spending time to diagnose a $40 IOLinc. I ordered two from Amazon which should be here Saturday. Ill toss one in and see what happens and report back.

 

Your going to have to help me here a little - When you select the I/O Linc of choice via the Admin Console does the hardware actually make the relay inside go *Click*?

 

The fact the Admin Console displays a on / off doesn't mean anything because the system just assumes it worked. We all know this whole shoot and go isn't to be relied upon for confirmation.

[Scottmichaelj]

Your going to have to help me here a little - When you select the I/O Linc of choice via the Admin Console does the hardware actually make the relay inside go *Click*?

 

The fact the Admin Console displays a on / off doesn't mean anything because the system just assumes it worked. We all know this whole shoot and go isn't to be relied upon for confirmation.

Post 33 I said I dont hear a click on any of them either using the admin console or pressing the set button. I even asked to have it confirmed it should, which was. Mine are not clicking. Like I said its $40 - I can afford new ones. If they dont work then it has to be something else. I feel no reading on the meter and no clicky means they are dead.

[Teken]

Post 33 I said I dont hear a click on any of them either using the admin console or pressing the set button. I even asked to have it confirmed it should, which was. Mine are not clicking. Like I said its $40 - I can afford new ones. If they dont work then it has to be something else. I feel no reading on the meter and no clicky means they are dead.

 

I only asked because what I quoted from you made it sound like using the admin console did make it work even though it didn't make a click. If both units are indeed dead I would be considering more SPD's besides the one on the main panel. As I have blogged about for years a layered approach from meter, panel, to load is the only thing that will offer a measure of protection.

 

Finding two exact units giving up the ghost is the results of a electrical event whether it be a surge vs sag.

[Scottmichaelj]

I only asked because what I quoted from you made it sound like using the admin console did make it work even though it didn't make a click. If both units are indeed dead I would be considering more SPD's besides the one on the main panel. As I have blogged about for years a layered approach from meter, panel, to load is the only thing that will offer a measure of protection.

 

Finding two exact units giving up the ghost is the results of a electrical event whether it be a surge vs sag.

Yeah not sure whats up. The old unit was v1.4 and still had Smarthome printed on the front so thats an oldie. The new one was v2.4 with Insteon printed on the front. Its been in the box for a while so it could have failed or came damaged but I didnt know.

 

Ill post back. It might be something with the electronic ignition box for all I know. Maybe the IOLinc isnt pushing enough power to get it to switch on and the actual fireplace part is starting to fail. Why it works with the manual switch kind of makes me think thats not the case though.

 

Ill know on Saturday

[Teken]

Must be nice having those week end deliveries - I can't say this is something we here in Canada are used to seeing. I may have seen a few Fed-Ex, UPS, Purolator, from time to time for businesses. But rarely have I seen week end deliveries for consumer goods.

 

Even though I noticed on the Canada Post web site week end delivery is available? In all my years I have never received a single package from Canada Post on the week ends not even to the community mail box!

[stusviews]

I've even gotten USPS Sunday and holiday deliveries with Amazon Prime

[Teken]

That's one of many benefits of living in one of the greatest nations in the free world!  

[Scottmichaelj]

I've even gotten USPS Sunday and holiday deliveries with Amazon Prime

Amazon has partnered with USPS and UBER to make deliveries in my area so I can get same day, weekend and holiday delivery. Most of the time and free.

[Scottmichaelj]

Followup. It was defective IOLincs. I got the new one installed and all is good with the world. I can confirm the versions I got were v2.4 and you do indeed hear a "CLICK" sound when pressing the "SET" button on the side which turns it on/off. My defective ones didn't. What timing! Help a member with theirs and mine dies.