8 Button Keypad Not Recognizing Pushes on 3 Buttons

[grtaylor]

Never had this happen before.

 

I added a new 8 button keypad, all added just fine. The first five buttons work as expected - the last three illuminate at the switch but ISY doesn't see them as being switched On. All others report fine.

 

I've removed and re-added the device twice, factory reset the device twice.

 

Any ideas? I have a lot of devices, I will try and get a link count off the PLM once the family stop pushing buttons, but I know I'm in the 700-800+ range, or was the last time I checked. Could a PLM reset to clean out dead links help? Something else?

[MWareman]

Sounds like a device with a defect in manufacturing. Never seen this myself, by I'd contact Smarthomes warranty Dept...

[Teken]

If you decide to pursue a PLM Restore it will indeed squeeze out any dead links. I would be interested to see what your link counts are if you're indeed pushing 800 plus.

[Techman]

Never had this happen before.

 

I added a new 8 button keypad, all added just fine. The first five buttons work as expected - the last three illuminate at the switch but ISY doesn't see them as being switched On. All others report fine.

 

I've removed and re-added the device twice, factory reset the device twice.

 

Any ideas? I have a lot of devices, I will try and get a link count off the PLM once the family stop pushing buttons, but I know I'm in the 700-800+ range, or was the last time I checked. Could a PLM reset to clean out dead links help? Something else?

 

 

also try doing a diagnostic | compare on the KPL to see if you have any links that are mismatched.

 

are you running the 994 pro?  what version of the ISY firmware and UI are you running?

[grtaylor]

I'm on a 995 Pro, 4.5.4 both ISY and Admin UI.

 

Compare device/ISY is all good. The device isn't in any scenes yet so there are only 10 links, and they match.

 

I'll try a PLM count once I have some time without family pushing buttons. Then consider a reset/restore of the PLM, to see how many links that clears out.

[grtaylor]

My PLM won't give me a consistent count. it's like a random number generator. It's hard to get a count when motion's on Elk trip, and programs run etc, but even when the household are quiet it seems the thing can't give me the same count twice.

 

I had a 6 button spare, so just added that. And again, no button pushes get registered. There's no traffic when ISY is at level 3 when any of the buttons are pushed, but when I query then ISY sees the state and updates.

 

So is my PLM playing up? I just ordered a new one from Amazon, but worth trying a reset on the existing one before switching over would anyone think?

[paulbates]

If you've swapped for another keypad and get identical results, its pointing at the PLM,

• I didn't see in the dialogue if your PLM is at or over the 2.5 year 'date of death' mark? 
• If so, the PLM could be on its way to PLM heaven
• If not, the symptoms could also be potentially explained by being out of link address space. The PLM would not be able to hold the links from the switch to compare and respond to them

What's the highest link count you've seen?

 

Paul

[grtaylor]

My PLM is likely heading towards 2 years, but not exactly sure how long it's been in use. I've seen counts anywhere from 340 to well over 1000.

 

I also recall (this is my 2nd PLM) the process, and every single device has to be updated... what a pita. So I think I might try a reset on the one I have first, see if that clears out dead links and brings things back. Before I try a replace. That will be painful, unless I kick everyone out the house for a few hours.

[paulbates]

That sounds like the right plan, that's the way you'll know for sure.

 

If that does fix it, then you'll have a spare PLM on hand, which I always do.

 

Paul

[grtaylor]

Thanks for the confirmation on the plan. I have a bunch of leak sensors and other stuff in hard to reach places. The idea of resetting all of them to a new PLM... urgh...

[stusviews]

I wrote programs for each of my battery powered sensors that updates the device each time they're activated. For motion sensors, pass by them; for window/door sensors, open or close the window.door; for leak sensors, tap the button. The leak sensor is the most difficult, but you only need the tap the set button and not hold it. The programs are disable to save the battery and enabled as needed. Here's on example:

 

IN Laundry Sensor
If
        Control 'IN / Devices / IN Laundry Room-Dry' is switched On
 
Then
        Set 'IN / Devices / IN Laundry Room-Dry' Write Device Updates
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[grtaylor]

Stu, would that work when changing the PLM too? I've got programs like that for some handheld 8 button switchlincs so they get updates, but would that work for a PLM change too?

 

PLM reset seems to have done the trick. That 8 button I started seeing issues with now works. I'm trying to make sure everything else does too. There was some heartbeat traffic and thermostat updates during the Restore PLM, It's really hard to get a clean run with no other traffic with any number of wireless devices in play,  

 

I'm trying to do a PLM count now to see what number I end up with. Hopefully will start to see a number come out, but I've always recalled that any other traffic seen during the count seems to mess things up. Is that still the case?

[stusviews]

Replacing the PLM initiated the idea to write the programs, so absolutely yes

[grtaylor]

@ Stu - Great, thanks.

 

Is there a way to see how many links the ISY thinks the PLM should have? to be able to see if it has them all? And if traffic coming to the PLM messes up the count, is there a way to filter that out, export the Log, look for dupes and so on?

[stusviews]

You can use this links calculator to estimate the number of link in your Insteon network. There's no way that I know of to compensate for the different counts you'll get, but there shouldn't be either a great discrepancy in multiple tests nor a number that's vastly lower than the estimate.

[grtaylor]

Hmm. Well even with ballpark guesses that has me at over 800 links.

 

The numbers that come back from a PLM link count are all over the place, 300 something through to 900 something. And the last count just ended - 817. Trying again. This time it'll be 300...

[grtaylor]

I just counted the scenes in my ISY. 130. Add that to the 14 8 button and 4 6 button keypads, and the 15 Switchlincs... and kaboom. I think I'm gonna need a bigger boat.

[paulbates]

I just counted the scenes in my ISY. 130. Add that to the 14 8 button and 4 6 button keypads, and the 15 Switchlincs... and kaboom. I think I'm gonna need a bigger boat.

 

There is not a hard 1:1 relationship from device to to total link count. For example, I have several large scenes to turn off ~20 devices. These scenes are hosted in the plm. I have a number of keypads, and they need scenes to control the buttons.... in addition I also define scenes with those same buttons and lots of other devices.

 

The point is, if you have some really big scenes to turn large groups of devices on and off, you can look at consolidating or reducing them. I'd prefer not to do it that way, but you're banging into an unmovable headroom issue

 

Take a look a your biggest scenes defined on your ISY and see if there is a way to combine or cut back.

 

Paul

[grtaylor]

Finally got a consistent count. Had to remove power from the thermostat and take the batteries out of two hidden door sensors.

 

954.

 

So that's a lot. How close to blowing up am I? Do SH have any plans to increase the capacity does anyone know?

 

Paul - not sure how I can consolidate large scenes as you suggested. If the scene is large, it's large. Are you asking if I have more than one large scene with the same devices, and if so, get rid of one, that sort of thing? or something else?

 

I have LED scenes, a good number, to keep my keypad buttons in sync. So keypad buttons stay in sync with lights that are changed via a scene triggered elsewhere.

[paulbates]

Finally got a consistent count. Had to remove power from the thermostat and take the batteries out of two hidden door sensors.

 

954.

 

So that's a lot. How close to blowing up am I? Do SH have any plans to increase the capacity does anyone know?

 

Paul - not sure how I can consolidate large scenes as you suggested. If the scene is large, it's large. Are you asking if I have more than one large scene with the same devices, and if so, get rid of one, that sort of thing? or something else?

 

I have LED scenes, a good number, to keep my keypad buttons in sync. So keypad buttons stay in sync with lights that are changed via a scene triggered elsewhere.

 

Hi I'm not sure "how close is too close"...but it seems you are really close.

 

For the scenes, yes, that's what I mean. I have several large scenes that are very close to the same thing..but one has some additional device they are convenient for effect and functionality.. but if I had to start chopping, it would be there... if that's possible for you. 

 

Paul

[Teken]

Finally got a consistent count. Had to remove power from the thermostat and take the batteries out of two hidden door sensors.

 

954.

 

So that's a lot. How close to blowing up am I? Do SH have any plans to increase the capacity does anyone know?

 

Paul - not sure how I can consolidate large scenes as you suggested. If the scene is large, it's large. Are you asking if I have more than one large scene with the same devices, and if so, get rid of one, that sort of thing? or something else?

 

I have LED scenes, a good number, to keep my keypad buttons in sync. So keypad buttons stay in sync with lights that are changed via a scene triggered elsewhere.

 

The link table capacity hasn't changed in over five years so who knows what may come down the pipe in 2017. As an aside I do recall the older 2412S PLM did in fact support more links than the 2413S PLM.

 

The major down side is the 2412S PLM was single band and powered the ISY Series Controller directly. 

[stusviews]

A count of more that 900 is not just close, it's over what is considered safe. See: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_No_Status_Feedback_From_Devices

[grtaylor]

Mmm. Bummer.

 

So a large scene in ISY with say, 50 devices takes up 50 records? Or just one, for the scene?

[stusviews]

One link for each responder, two links for a controller. (An ISY controller is both a controller and a responder.)

[grtaylor]

Thinking outside the small black ISY box for a moment....

 

So could I run two ISY's with two PLM's? Or, as I also have HomeSeer but haven't really used it yet (going to build touchscreen for Elk/ISY/Sonos and more) could I add an Insteon PLM to HomeSeer and put some devices on that....?

 

Wasn't there a hint once at UDI producing a PLM? or did I dream that?