Insteon New Motion Sensor 2844-222 2nd Gen

[NGC]

Thank you all for the feedback.  

I have factory reset the sensor, deleted, restored and relinked multiple times.  I have matched the device links table and it matched the ISY table, communication is not a problem because all my testing was done within a couple of feet from the PLM and all the systems including the PLM were flashing upon motion sensing.

After much investigation it appears that my PLM links table is full at 992.  This happened because the ALL OFF/ON feature was disabled on new switches and I needed to create whole house scenes to include all switches (150+ with many keypads).

I am assuming that ISY manages PLM links efficiently and there are no duplicates or stale links.  If that is not the case, is there a way to reset the PLM or clean stale links?

Thanks again.

 

[larryllix]

25 minutes ago, NGC said:

Thank you all for the feedback.  

I have factory reset the sensor, deleted, restored and relinked multiple times.  I have matched the device links table and it matched the ISY table, communication is not a problem because all my testing was done within a couple of feet from the PLM and all the systems including the PLM were flashing upon motion sensing.

After much investigation it appears that my PLM links table is full at 992.  This happened because the ALL OFF/ON feature was disabled on new switches and I needed to create whole house scenes to include all switches (150+ with many keypads).

I am assuming that ISY manages PLM links efficiently and there are no duplicates or stale links.  If that is not the case, is there a way to reset the PLM or clean stale links?

Thanks again.

 

How many scenes have you created?

My understanding is that a scene containing every device would take only one linking position in the PLM as well as one  link position in each device. When the PLM calls out "Now serving roast beef!", all the devices waiting with a roast beef ticket get served from that one call.

[NGC]

I have a total of 150 devices (~25 keypads, 4 remotes & 4 Motion sensors) and 50 Scenes. One whole house scene includes all devices and 4 area scenes that include all devices in an area effectively the 4 scenes cover all switches.  I migrated my install from Houselinc about 1 year ago.  My understanding is that each scene consumes 1 link for each device enrolled in the scene and this is why I believe all my links are occupied.  If it was the other way around my PLM should not have more than ~350 links assuming the keypads and remotes are 6-8 links each.

Perhaps I have a bunch of broken or stale links from old devices by I have no way of figuring this out.  May be somebody with deep knowledge of the ISY link handling can shed som light on this.

After deleting a device and creating room in PLM for my new motion sensor it is working perfectly!

 

[kclenden]

9 hours ago, larryllix said:

My understanding is that a scene containing every device would take only one linking position in the PLM as well as one  link position in each device.

I don't think this is quite accurate.  When I look at my PLM table, it appears to me that there is are two records in the PLM for every device (one as a controller and one as a responder) and then a link for every device for each scene it is contained in.  Here are two examples:

1B.D6.A7 and 1B.D6.F1 are each a Dual Band SwitchLinc Dimmer (2478D).  They each are responders in two scenes.  Based on that I think lines 0, 1, 4 and 5 are the default links that every device gets in the PLM table which allow the PLM to issue commands to, and receive status from those devices.  I think lines 2 and 6 are links for one scene to which both switches are responders, and lines 3 and 7 are links for the other scene to which both switches are responders.

Additionally, keypads counts as 6 or 8 devices since each button can be controlled, or responded to individually.

[NGC]

Thank you for the clarification.  You are correct - 2 links per device or keypad button + 1 link for each scene appearance.  I went back and generated a topology and it turns out I have 190+ devices and with my current scenes I have exhausted the capacity of the PLM.  I will buy one of the new PLMs that can handle 2000 links and in the meanwhile I am deleting non-essential scenes to make room for new devices!

[Brian H]

Verify you get a V2.5 that was recently reported in the Insteon.com web site. As having improvements.

The sales pages have said 2000 Links since at least Memorial day. When I bough mine and it is a 2.4 with the 1000 link database as where some recently reported ones here.

Has anyone verified that  the ISY994i can actually do 2000 links?

 

[NGC]

Thank you for the heads up - will call them to make sure it is the 2.5+

[Brian H]

It was mentioned in a thread on the Insteon.com forums.  Related to the 2413U revision number. Said both the 2413S and 2413U where updated and revision 2.5 was the latest. Can't verify 2000 link data base was one of them but I suspect it is. As the sales page has been indicating 2000 link data base for months now.

https://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/insteon-products/computer-interfaces/powerlinc-modem-usb/106551-powerlinc-2413u-version-numbers

[larryllix]

16 hours ago, kclenden said:

I don't think this is quite accurate.  When I look at my PLM table, it appears to me that there is are two records in the PLM for every device (one as a controller and one as a responder) and then a link for every device for each scene it is contained in.  Here are two examples:

1B.D6.A7 and 1B.D6.F1 are each a Dual Band SwitchLinc Dimmer (2478D).  They each are responders in two scenes.  Based on that I think lines 0, 1, 4 and 5 are the default links that every device gets in the PLM table which allow the PLM to issue commands to, and receive status from those devices.  I think lines 2 and 6 are links for one scene to which both switches are responders, and lines 3 and 7 are links for the other scene to which both switches are responders.

Additionally, keypads counts as 6 or 8 devices since each button can be controlled, or responded to individually.

I think we are confusing links with scenes for counting.

Not real sure on the bit twiddling involved  Insteon anymore (never was  ) but IIRC
It takes one link for every  node  (I incorrectly posted "device") connected to the PLM. Most devices have a few nodes and can require a link for each node both ways.
Insteon Scenes use one link in a broadcast fashion. One transmission activates all device nodes that contain that Scene link.

I have 140 Insteon nodes listed in ISY, and 215 links used in my PLM. This affords a link each way to most devices, as well as a link to the PLM, and a link for each Scene installed in the device. When you add more than one device(s) to an Insteon scene, no new PLM links should be  required.

[kclenden]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

When you add more than one device(s) to an Insteon scene, no new PLM links should be  required.

While you may be correct when you refer to "nodes",  my testing indicates you are not correct about PLM links and scenes.  Starting from what I shared above, I'll expand.

The highest record number in my PLM links table was 274 (Count=275).  I added one more device to a scene that the two switches above were in.  The highest record number in my PLM links table increased to 275 (Count=276).  I added one more device to the same scene and the highest record number increased to 276 (Count=277).  Then I removed both of the devices that I just added and the highest record number decreased to 274 (Count=275).

Not content with just seeing the highest record number increase, I also examined the actual links in the PLM links table for the two new devices I had just added to the scene.  Both devices now had a record in the PLM links table that began "E2 13" followed by their address.  After removing the two devices from the scene, both devices no longer had a record in the PLM links table that began "E2 13" followed by their address.

Additionally, there were 8 records in the PLM links table that began with "E2 13" before my experiment adding two devices to a scene.  That is exactly the number of devices included in the scene.  After adding the two new switches, there were 10 records in the PLM links table that began with "E2 13".  After removing the two devices from the scene, there were again 8 records in the PLM links table that began with "E2 13".

The "13" in those PLM links table records is called the "Group" in Insteon documentation.  It seems clear that when you create a new scene, a new group is created in the PLM links table.  And when you add a device to the scene, a record assigning the device to that group is added.  Using your concept of "nodes", it seems that adding a device to a scene creates a new node for that device and thus a new record is added to the PLM links table.

[larryllix]

@kclenden Nice!!

Thanks for that. I didn't know you could see PLM links.

[paob]

Hi all

any idea when the firmware supporting this sensor will be available?

[Michel Kohanim]

@paob,

Already available 

 

With kind regards,
Michel

[wmcneil]

On 11/11/2018 at 3:05 PM, Michel Kohanim said:

 Michel, 

  I am running 5.0.14 on my ISY, and have installed a new 2844-222 Insteon Motion sensor. I was surprised to see the Motion device is reporting temperature and luminance, since those features are not advertised in the 2844-222 manual?  I see there are various option settings, some of which appear to be for these new features, do you know where there may be any documentation for these option settings?

 Thank you, 

 Bill 

 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bill,

Unfortunately I have no idea. It's best to contact SmartHome support.

 

With kind regards,

Michel