Use On/Off Switch for Low Voltage?

[SteveSBE]

I want to independently control 4 separate sets of low voltage lights which are currently powered and controlled from a single transformer. I want the control to be on the 12 volt lines going from the transformer to the lights. In other words I'd have an on/off switch between the transformer and the low voltage lights for each of the four separate 12 volt lines. These switches would be installed indoors.

 

I was planning to use an I/O Linc to control these lines. However could I instead use an on/off control such as the Insteon Remote Control Micro On/Off Switch Adaptor? I know this device is made for higher voltages and loads but it would give me the advantage of both the wire and R/F bands.

 

Is there another option I'm not considering?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

[stusviews]

Unless battery powered, all Insteon devices require line voltage to function at all. You could use an Insteon device to control power to the transformer. Unfortunately, that'd also require four transformers.

Edited April 15, 2017 by stusviews

[SteveSBE]

Unless battery powered, all Insteon devices require line voltage to function at all. You could use an Insteon device to control power to the transformer. Unfortunately, that'd also require four transformers.

 

Yup, that's what I was trying to avoid...Thanks for your quick reply.

 

Is the I/O Linc the only Insteon device that can control on/off for 12 volt lines? 

 

Or would there be another non-Insteon device that can be controlled via my ISY (for example, a WiFi device)?

 

Steve

[JCrank]

You could use insteon switch to control a relay that has a 120 volt coil, then switch the low voltage with the relay contacts

 

How many watts will you be switching on the low voltage side? Once we know this I can find you a suitable relay.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 15, 2017 by JCrank

[JCrank]

Or you could use something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JJJK2VU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_o9P8ybB8KWXNB

 

And control it with network resources from the isy

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 15, 2017 by JCrank

[Dr Pepper]

If you are trying to control 4 12 volt low current circuits you can look at an EZ-Flora sprinkler controller to possibly control them.  Instead of using a 24 Vac transformer use a 12 Vac or Vdc transformer and observe polarity if you use dc.  It should work.  I actually bought one for low voltage LED lights on my aquarium I just have not had time to play with it.

 

Pin 1 would be + 12 Vdc, Pins 2, 3 and 4 would be your negatives if using dc (they are all the same node) and then Pins 5 through 12 would be 8 positive dc outputs (Pin 5 is output 8, Pin 6 in output 7 etc).

 

You can find them used for $40 sometimes on ebay.

[Brian H]

I believe the EZflora has triac outputs. So AC only.

Also only one output goes on at a time.

[Broyd]

Or you could use something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JJJK2VU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_o9P8ybB8KWXNB

And control it with network resources from the isy

This relay board will do what you want. 10 amps per circuit max. If you go this route, make sure you order the controller board PLUS the relay board. They can be ordered individually.

You will need to buy the ISY network module. I wrote up some instructions in this link:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/21533-can-you-use-variable-substitution-in-a-network-resource/

Edited April 15, 2017 by Broyd

[Dr Pepper]

I believe the EZflora has triac outputs. So AC only.

Also only one output goes on at a time.

 

I just enrolled it and you are correct for the one output at a time.  I have to open it up to check for the triacs.  If he is using AC he can use 4 EZ Flora's and still be less expensive then most other options (if he can find them at $40 each). 

[jtara92101]

Just call Smarthome and ask their advice. If they steer you the wrong way, they will cheerfully accept a return within 30 days, and usually will give a store credit for a reasonable period after that. Basically, they won't accept a return that they can't resell, because now the product is obsolete.

 

The surest thing for this is to pick a device that has a physical relay output. Two terminals, the relay connects the terminals, and no internal connection to the AC.

 

But there ARE DC SSRs. (Don't know if any Insteon products.)

 

I/OLinc has a mechanical relay, rated at up to 5A at 30V. Is that enough for your lighting?

 

Are you sure you don't want to dim the lights? You could purchase Insteon 0-10V ballast dimmers (on sale for $49.99 at SmartHome) along with 0-10V drivers.

 

Is your lighting LED?

Edited April 15, 2017 by jtara92101

[Brian H]

Smartenit also makes a 4 relay output module. I originally thought might work but it has a small current capacity relay of .5Amp. So it may not be suitable.

 

http://smartenit.com/product/iot4r/

[SteveSBE]

I just enrolled it and you are correct for the one output at a time.  I have to open it up to check for the triacs.  If he is using AC he can use 4 EZ Flora's and still be less expensive then most other options (if he can find them at $40 each). 

 

Thanks for your help. I have an EZ Flora and knew that there was one output at a time so the EZ Flora is not much (if any) better than I/O Linc. My experience is that they have about the same life expectancy.

[Brian H]

Not surprised about the same life expectancy.

Most of the Smartenit modules are built on the same base 2413 PLM board. With the same power supply issues.

 

The 2450 I/O Linc has a different board in it but uses the same small switching supply IC and questionable filter capacitors. I have seen three different sized capacitors in one capacitor location, between early and later hardware versions.

 

Though over kill the EZIO8SA has eight heavy duty relays in it but also needs its own PLM to function.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Brian H

[SteveSBE]

You could use insteon switch to control a relay that has a 120 volt coil, then switch the low voltage with the relay contacts

 

How many watts will you be switching on the low voltage side? Once we know this I can find you a suitable relay.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Thanks for your help.

 

The largest run has 6 lights and I want to use LED bulbs.  Each LED bulb would be 5 watts or 30 watts total. I want to plan for expansion on a two runs and should plan for triple that (or 90 watts) on those two runs.

 

In a nutshell...30 watts to 90 watts in the foreseeable future.

 

By the way...In the perfect world I would have the option of dimming 3 of the 4 runs. But dimming LEDs seems to be an expensive proposition so I've resigned myself to on/off for now...unless...???

 

Steve

[SteveSBE]

Just call Smarthome and ask their advice. If they steer you the wrong way, they will cheerfully accept a return within 30 days, and usually will give a store credit for a reasonable period after that. Basically, they won't accept a return that they can't resell, because now the product is obsolete.

 

The surest thing for this is to pick a device that has a physical relay output. Two terminals, the relay connects the terminals, and no internal connection to the AC.

 

But there ARE DC SSRs. (Don't know if any Insteon products.)

 

I/OLinc has a mechanical relay, rated at up to 5A at 30V. Is that enough for your lighting?

 

Are you sure you don't want to dim the lights? You could purchase Insteon 0-10V ballast dimmers (on sale for $49.99 at SmartHome) along with 0-10V drivers.

 

Is your lighting LED?

 

Thanks for the response and ideas and I will call Smarthome tomorrow to get their input.

 

I will use LED bulbs. The largest run has 6 lights and each LED bulb is 5 watts (30 watts total). I want to plan for expansion on a two runs and should plan for triple that (or 90 watts) on those two runs.  In a nutshell...30 watts to 90 watts in the foreseeable future.  So if I'm doing my math correctly the I/O Linc relay should be able to handle up to 150 watts in latching (continuous) mode which would be sufficient for any of my on/off applications. Does this make sense?

 

However you were prescient... In the perfect world I want the option of dimming 3 of the 4 runs.  Dimming LEDs seems to be an expensive proposition for now so I resigned myself to on/off for now. When I reviewed the manual for the Insteon 0-10V ballast dimmers they seem to be for florescent lamps and not LED bulbs...unless I'm missing something. Am I?

 

So for now I'm thinking of going with four separate inexpensive transformers and companion I/O Lincs to control the on/off of each run/zone. It's not the perfect solution but it does give me flexibility to in the future to upgrade to the yet to be developed insteon low voltage LED dimmer capable device (or devices)...or using the network module for a network capable device.

 

Steve

[Dr Pepper]

If you have Zwave there are some LED controllers that should soon be controlable from the ISY in 5.X when it is released.

[etsvilik]

If you don't mind messing around with electronics you may try modifications I did to Insteon micro on/off modules when I needed low voltage control.

Another approach may be using Global Cache Relay board. It can be controlled via Network Resource,  Relays are only 0.5A but you may always add on inexpensive "dumb" 4 relay board to increase the load capacity

[SteveSBE]

If you don't mind messing around with electronics you may try modifications I did to Insteon micro on/off modules when I needed low voltage control.

Another approach may be using Global Cache Relay board. It can be controlled via Network Resource, Relays are only 0.5A but you may always add on inexpensive "dumb" 4 relay board to increase the load capacity

Thanks for the idea but I'm not an electronics expert and don't have the fine motor coordination I used to have for soldering. Edited April 16, 2017 by SteveSBE

[SteveSBE]

If you have Zwave there are some LED controllers that should soon be controlable from the ISY in 5.X when it is released.

I saw that and will take a look at upgrading my ISY to add Z wave. Thanks. Steve

[SteveSBE]

Just an update/decision... I've made a decision on what to do with my four runs. It's based on the answers in this forum and discussions with the lighting folks that are installing these runs.

 

I decided to use one on/off 110/120 volt module (or outlet) and one inexpensive transformer per run that can handle the load for that run. (My loads are relatively small.) The lighting folks will put dimming LEDs into the runs that I may wish to dim in the future. This is really straightforward to set up now. When the cost of dimming LEDs falls and/or the technology becomes more usable for us mainstream folks, I will upgrade the components to provide dimming for a given run which will meet my ultimate dimming solution. This keeps cost relatively low now, gives me flexibility between runs, and allows me the ability to adapt to different options in the future.

 

Thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions.

 

Steve