ISY994i - Can't Backup, Can't Upgrade, Can't Log

[Wingsy]

I am unable to backup my ISY. Says can not create the zip file. (I do have 2 backups I did in Jan 2016 but nothing since)

 

I can't do an automatic upgrade. After clicking Yes or No to the question of first making a backup, nothing.

 

I have no log file (never have had one). The folder "ISY" is empty.

 

MacOS 10.10.5 (Yosemite), latest Java, Mac Pro. 

 

Please, any suggestions?

 

[larryllix]

I am unable to backup my ISY. Says can not create the zip file. (I do have 2 backups I did in Jan 2016 but nothing since)

 

I can't do an automatic upgrade. After clicking Yes or No to the question of first making a backup, nothing.

 

I have no log file (never have had one). The folder "ISY" is empty.

 

MacOS 10.10.5 (Yosemite), latest Java, Mac Pro. 

 

Please, any suggestions?

 

ISY Info.png

Your UI and firmware versions do not match.

[MWareman]

To start with, your current firmware is 4.3.26 but the UI you are using is 4.5.4

 

Unexpected results commonly occur when they don't match.

 

Do you get the same issue using the 4.3.26 UI to start the backup?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wingsy]

To start with, your current firmware is 4.3.26 but the UI you are using is 4.5.4

 

Unexpected results commonly occur when they don't match.

 

Do you get the same issue using the 4.3.26 UI to start the backup?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Since I am unable to upgrade, how can I downgrade?

[MWareman]

I'm mobile right now, but if you check the forum where upgrades are posted you should be able to find the needed admin console linked from version the announcement post. I have a historical archive myself, but not the Mac versions (since I don't not have a Mac).

 

If you cannot find it, an email to support and I'm sure they will send it to you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MWareman]

This post: (hopefully the link works!) http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php?/topic/17075-Release-4%2E3%2E26-Is-Now-Official

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wingsy]

I'm mobile right now, but if you check the forum where upgrades are posted you should be able to find the needed admin console linked from version the announcement post. I have a historical archive myself, but not the Mac versions (since I don't not have a Mac).

 

If you cannot find it, an email to support and I'm sure they will send it to you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

It's not so much of an issue with not being able to find it, but that when I try to upgrade either automatically or manually (which is what I assume you do when downgrading), but that the ISY won't even continue to the point where I can choose what to load.

[larryllix]

It's not so much of an issue with not being able to find it, but that when I try to upgrade either automatically or manually (which is what I assume you do when downgrading), but that the ISY won't even continue to the point where I can choose what to load.

Don't upgrade your ISY, change your admin console to the matching version.

 

Go to your java console and clear the cache including applets. Also delete your admin.jnlp file.

Now go to the announcement of the version you have installed in ISY and click on the appropriate link that will install your matching admin console.

 

Then when they match, you can backup and upgrade, repeating the above.

[Wingsy]

Thanks Larry & MWareman.

 

I got them both to the latest version. Suddenly I had a log file, going back about 2 months. Looking it over at the time the All-ON event occurred, I cannot see anything that looks to me like anything turned on everything. Like, my fireplace - the only events I see about that are after the All-ON event where I turned the fireplace off and on via my iPhone. I think. I believe that log was created to only be read by UDI people or you guys who live and breathe this stuff. I don't want to dedicate my life to this, I just want it to work. And this morning (2AM) I fired up the Admin Console and the log problem is back. Choosing to show or save the log file results in "Couldn't Open the Excel Macro [path-to-filename]".. And trying to do a backup I get "Could Not Create the ZIP File". All, same as before. I suspect a permission issue but I have that folder set to anyone-can-read/write

 

 

So, OK, let me just forget about the file problems and the All-ON event for a while and concentrate on the current problem that's driving me & my wife nuts. Ever since the All-ON things have been getting strange here. First, the constant flickering of the lights. That's the big thing. Even the IOLinc sitting here at my desk is flickering, and I thought that it only blinks its LED when it sends Insteon commands. (All my IOLincs are blinking.) How can it be sending commands when it's just sitting here doing nothing? And the MBR lights -- when you turn them on, you can't turn them off for the next 5 seconds to a minute. Likewise when you turn it off you can't turn it back on for the next 5 secs to a minute. Same for the bathroom lights, the closet light, and probably others but not all. Other problems are that not all lights turn on via my programs when the program is triggered, or they will not turn off. But this constant Insteon traffic is my main problem right now. I think if I can resolve that then the light flickering problem will go away, giving me time to work on the other problems before my wife insists that I pull the plug on this really neat home automation stuff. (She was home alone when, simultaneously, the fireplaces came on, the doors unlocked and the driveway alert went off. Can you imagine that.) My lights have always flickered when there is a burst of Insteon traffic, but it happens just below our threshold of pain. I want to get back to where this system is working just good enough to get by.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Other info that may be pertinent: About a couple of weeks before all this, I had an InLineLinc fail (ants got into it). I removed it. I recently received a replacement. Got it connected and used the command to let the ISY replace that device. It works OK, and responds to Insteon commands and plays well in a scene. I don't have any motion sensors but I do have 3 battery powered devices - a leak sensor and 2 TriggerLincs, one of which was activated by the garage door at the time of the All-ON. Also, it appears that the lights that do not turn on/off reliably are those lights that I have programmed to come on at 20% power at night, and 100% during the day (by changing its max on value at night and in the morning). Not entirely sure about that tho.

[Brian H]

If the lights are flickering even when there is no Insteon power line traffic. You may have an electrical problem in your home and want to get it checked out.

 

Some Insteon modules flash their LEDs on seeing power line signals. Power line noise can also make them flash.

 

If there is enough power line noise it will stop Insteon power line signals from working correctly. I believe the Dual band models are polite. So again if the module thinks there are communications on the power line. It may not pass anything back to the power line.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Brian H

[Wingsy]

No, they don't flicker when there is no Insteon traffic. It would be a poor state of affairs if a device that is suppose to blink on "Insteon traffic" would flash on random noise. Surely they would only flash the LED when a valid message appears on the line. (Unless the software was written in a certain foreign country, in which case I would withdraw that statement.)

 

 

I unplugged my ISY and my PLM. Took the batteries out of my TriggerLincs, unplugged all my IOLincs. Still have traffic and still have lights flickering. It's really hard to tell because things are so random, but it appears that the flickering isn't as bad as before. Again, hard to tell.

 

Isn't there any way to tell where this traffic is coming from, other than UNwiring all my devices one at a time until it stops?

[mwester]

I feel your pain -- I've a brand new house, wired per code with all modern (and name brand) appliances and devices -- even the phone chargers are all top-quality name brand.  My Insteon network "works", and that's about all -- for example, I just replaced a failed KPL in the kitchen, and it took most of an afternoon to get the link database successfully written to it.

 

The general troubleshooting advice available is painful for any modern house -- prepare to reset clocks and reboot computers, etc.  You have to go to your basement, turn off all the breakers, and turn them on one by one until the noise problem appears -- that last breaker you turned on is the circuit that has the problematic device on it.  Now you need to find everything on that circuit, and remove it -- everything.  In my case, I even un-wired an outlet that had a built-in USB charger, just to make sure that wasn't contributing to the noise.

 

Hopefully that'll find the problematic device(s) for you.

 

(For me - I'm switching to z-wave as devices fail and I find acceptable replacements... I've just too many Filterlincs littering my house walls, and still have too many noise issues.  IMO, the days of the clean sine-wave on the power-line are past us, what with high-efficiency switching power supplies in everything (including LIGHT BULBS!).  Insteon's RF is, by design, coupled to the power-line zero-crossing, so the dual-band thing isn't an effective solution to noise (just to bridging or extending)... which basically means that, in my opinion, as a protocol Insteon is doomed to the dust-bin, and I just don't see that SmartHome has what it takes to bring a viable replacement to the market (there's already too many players there, what with Zigbee and Z-wave, etc).  But all that's an opinion - there are many here who feel I'm full of **** )

[Wingsy]

I don't. I agree 100%.

[larryllix]

I feel your pain -- I've a brand new house, wired per code with all modern (and name brand) appliances and devices -- even the phone chargers are all top-quality name brand. My Insteon network "works", and that's about all -- for example, I just replaced a failed KPL in the kitchen, and it took most of an afternoon to get the link database successfully written to it.

 

The general troubleshooting advice available is painful for any modern house -- prepare to reset clocks and reboot computers, etc. You have to go to your basement, turn off all the breakers, and turn them on one by one until the noise problem appears -- that last breaker you turned on is the circuit that has the problematic device on it. Now you need to find everything on that circuit, and remove it -- everything. In my case, I even un-wired an outlet that had a built-in USB charger, just to make sure that wasn't contributing to the noise.

 

Hopefully that'll find the problematic device(s) for you.

 

(For me - I'm switching to z-wave as devices fail and I find acceptable replacements... I've just too many Filterlincs littering my house walls, and still have too many noise issues. IMO, the days of the clean sine-wave on the power-line are past us, what with high-efficiency switching power supplies in everything (including LIGHT BULBS!). Insteon's RF is, by design, coupled to the power-line zero-crossing, so the dual-band thing isn't an effective solution to noise (just to bridging or extending)... which basically means that, in my opinion, as a protocol Insteon is doomed to the dust-bin, and I just don't see that SmartHome has what it takes to bring a viable replacement to the market (there's already too many players there, what with Zigbee and Z-wave, etc). But all that's an opinion - there are many here who feel I'm full of **** )

Maybe I have told you this before but, you have classic bad neutral symptoms.

 

We have found customer services with neutrals poorly, or not even connected by electricians, to the grid supply transformer and the earth / ground was carrying the neutral current. This causes all kinds of noise in the home, usually indicated by lights that are too bright, flickering, or too dim, and sometimes affected when another load is turned on.

 

In some areas it's possible to have the utilty come in, and place recording instruments at your service panel. These may not be advanced enough to find noise though, but could trigger service personnel to check all neutral connections between your panel and the transformer neutral bushing.

Edited May 21, 2017 by larryllix

[Wingsy]

I had a good close look at my power line this morning and this is what I found: (spoiler - nothing)

 

Power line. I can stare at this scope trace all day long and I never see even a hint of a glitch.

 

 

Amplified view of the zero-crossing, clipped. Insteon traffic plainly visible, and lots of it.

 

 

Zoomed in view of zero-crossing.

 

 

 

I'm no expert in the world of Insteon but I would say this all looks fine to me. My house is 1-1/2 years old. I know the electrician who wired it. He's really good, and I watched him every day. I have no doubts that it is wired correctly.

[larryllix]

Unfortunately scope traces only show repetitive waveforms well. Glitches and spikes hardly ever show up unless they are repetitive. Scopes do not do a good job for this and it can take more specialise harmonic analysis or noise analysers.

The newer digital scopes may only show a waveform every few, and never display random disturbances, with their sampling techniques.

 

Your first trace shows the 60Hz full of harmonics with its lumpy and bumpy sine wave. The lopsided wave peaks indicate third harmonics. Do you have HID lighting?  It's been a while since I have been here.

 

The clipped technique was cool for zero crossing.

Edited May 21, 2017 by larryllix

[Wingsy]

I dunno Larry. I think we come from different areas of electronics. It's been my experience that digital scopes excel at displaying random occurrences. I've used it before in tracking down and identifying glitches on power lines more than once or twice. In my case, whatever is causing this continuous Insteon traffic is very much repetitive. Anyway, have a look at this FFT. Harmonics, yes, as is always the case. But the worst is around 40db down from the fundamental. 

 

I'm convinced my problem is not noise related.

 

[larryllix]

I dunno Larry. I think we come from different areas of electronics. It's been my experience that digital scopes excel at displaying random occurrences. I've used it before in tracking down and identifying glitches on power lines more than once or twice. In my case, whatever is causing this continuous Insteon traffic is very much repetitive. Anyway, have a look at this FFT. Harmonics, yes, as is always the case. But the worst is around 40db down from the fundamental. 

 

I'm convinced my problem is not noise related.

 

PowerLine FFT.png

Sorry, I have no idea what that chart is supposed to represent. I do not know what FFT stands for.

 

Digital scopes can sample every X waveforms and unless you are watching it would be gone, as with an analogue scope but with missing information but...

Yes, it would seem to have to be repetitive, I agree.

 

 

When you have third harmonics mixed with the fundamental it not only off centre peaks your sinewave peak but it shifts your zero crossing of the voltage. IIRC Insteon works on this zero crossing, for timing, just before the following zero crossing. You didn't say whether you have HID lighting.  These make third harmonics and could be a problem. To see that on a voltage waveform that distinct means high impedance, to the source, (no absorption)  or very strong third harmonic currents. Just pulling at straws here.

 

For firmware suspicions, I would factory reset your ISY and restore your location, password, time zone, and backed up image. It's quite easy and painless. After mixing your UI and firmware version who knows? With your current problem you are going to revert back to your last good backup...yuk.

I mixed v5 with v4 UI once and only a factory reset got me out of the weird stuff that followed.

 

You obviously have the background and equipment to make this work. Keep on truckin'!