Cannot determine device link table address

[pixpop]

I was able to add my first device okay to control my patio lights. Now I'm trying to add this dual on/off outlet, and I hit this error. The communication between the device and the PLM seems okay.. at least I see plenty of messages exchanged in the event log. It detects the device, but when it attempts to do the final steps, I see the 'New Device Errors' dialog appear.

 

Can anyone explain what this error means, or point me to the documentation I should have read to find out what it means?

 

Thanks.

 

dlg1.tiff

 

dlg2.tiff

[paulbates]

This generally means poor device communication.  If the device to be controlled was plugged into the outlet, unplug it and retry. 

 

What will be plugged in to the outlet, low voltage lighting? I've had problems with outletlincs and those before, had to filter them

 

Is the outlet far from the panel or another insteon device? The other culprit can be the signal just not making it to the out

 

Paul

[pixpop]

It's for controlling a fountain pump, and the lights in the fountain. I removed the loads, and then was barely able to add the device. But with the loads plugged in, nothing works. My other device (a simple light switch) works fine, but it's very close to the PLM.

 

I'll have to experiment with getting a stronger signal to it. It's about 20 feet from the nearest other insteon device, but it's not line of sight. 

[paulbates]

My guess is you'll need to add a filterlinc between the loads and outletlinc. Outletlincs are disappointingly fussy about noise vs other insteon devices in my experience.... having replaced x10 supersockets that controlled the same loads 10 years prior with no signal problems.

 

Also, I forgot to mention, welcome to the UDI forums!

 

Paul

[pixpop]

Thanks. I relocated the PLM (on a different phase) and now the outlet control is reliable. However, my other device no longer responds. They must be on different phases, but I thought the RF might make them work. What's the range for the PLM RF signal?

 

As I have it wired now, it would have to transmit through the wall of my garage and then cross 20 feet of open space to get to the patio lights switch. The outletlinc is on the same phase as the garage, so that's likely why it works with the PLM in the garage.

[paulbates]

Phase bridging is an ongoing debate of sorts here. While I have some dual band, many of my devices predate it. I have a signalinc bridge in my electrical panel. It bridges the phases right at the middle of the electrical system. Things improved greatly after installing it.

 

Dual band devices, including the plm, are helpful too but have to be carefully placed. The range will very based on installation considerations. For instance, my PLM is under my electrical panel and behind a furnace... not the best. I've had to put dual band switches in certain spots, and also have an access point (the old version of the Insteon Range extender) in my garage. Its half thinking though where is makes sense, and sometimes trial and error.

 

Paul

[stusviews]

Caution! Electricity is delivered to homes on two opposite legs as a split (3-wire) single-phase (not phases) electric supply. Half the circuits are on one leg and half are on the opposite leg so as to closely balance the whole house loads. Those circuits are designed to carry a maximum load of 15 or 20 amps (220VAC devices may carry more, they're always split on two yoked breakers).

 

The balance is such that the neutral carries only the load difference, zero (0) if the loads are totally balanced and 15 (or 20) amps if the loads are totally out of balance. 220VAC loads are always perfectly balanced so a neutral is usually not needed.

 

A problem arises if circuits are swapped from opposite legs to the leg. In that case, the neutral carries the sum of both loads. If they're 15 amp circuits then the neutral can carry as much a 30 amps which is not detected by the breaker, only line wires are protected. If the circuits that you swapped changed from opposite legs to those that are not on opposite legs, then you create a risk that a neutral wire in the wall may burn out or even cause a fire.

 

The correct solution is to use a Range Extender or other dual-band device the bridge tho opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply.

[pixpop]

Well this is strange. Last night, when I moved the PLM into my garage, I had the outlet switch for the fountain working, but the patio lights wouldn't work. I planned to experiment with placement more this morning.

 

This morning I get up and find that now everything is working. Somehow the patio lights began working magically sometime last night. Whereas before even trying to query them would result in communications failures.

 

I don't like mysteries, but I guess the best thing to do is gradually add more control points and keep monitoring and testing. I don't want to add them all at once and then have to debug all at once.

[paulbates]

I have similar issues with virtual circuits on keypads in my kitchen/family room. Most of the time, everything works. Once in a long while for reasons I've never been able to track down, one or 2 miss going on or off.

 

I had a program in the ISY that tracked the on/off and sent a another on off after a few seconds. That sort of fixed it.

 

I finally replaced the keypad controlling the problem circuit with a newer one that allows retries to be programmed into the sender. This was the best compromise when dual band, noise suppression etc didn't work, and only retries when it has to, not every time)  

 

To see if your switch will do it, pick the switch in the list of devices in the scene. If its capable, the word "Retries" will appear in the panel at the bottom under On Level/Ramp rate... with a drop down box with numbers 1 - 9.  "Retries" is not there, the device isn't capable. I use 3 retries here, seemed to fix it. 

 

Paul

[mwester]

...

This morning I get up and find that now everything is working. Somehow the patio lights began working magically sometime last night. Whereas before even trying to query them would result in communications failures.

 

I don't like mysteries, but I guess the best thing to do is gradually add more control points and keep monitoring and testing. I don't want to add them all at once and then have to debug all at once.

 

While memories are fresh, I'd suggest asking others in the house what may have changed.  What lights that were on yesterday were turned off overnight?  Appliances?  Did anyone unplug a phone charger?  You're looking for anything - absolutely anything even a phone charger (!) - that was on when you were having trouble, and is now either off or unplugged.

 

Another suggestion -- put a notepad on the counter for folks to start noting the time and action taken when something Insteon (anything) stopped working, and then again when it started working.  Reviewing this list and asking specific questions can be enlightening.  For example, I tracked down one problem with the assistance of the 'Insteon trouble log' that affected the basement lights to an unexpected source -- plugging in the charger for my electric drill (DeWalt) caused the problem.  The fix?  Yet Another FilterLinc... but the lights fine now, and I can charge my battery.

[pixpop]

Re filterlinc: is the idea that you plug the filterlinc into the outlet, and then plug the offending load into the filterlinc? So the filterlinc sits between the load and the rest of the wiring?

[rccoleman]

Re filterlinc: is the idea that you plug the filterlinc into the outlet, and then plug the offending load into the filterlinc? So the filterlinc sits between the load and the rest of the wiring?

Yes, exactly. It also has an unfiltered outlet on the front where you can plug in something that doesn't need to be filtered, or shouldn't be filtered (like a PLM or Lamplinc).

[paulbates]

Yes (as Rob answered) Fitting it all physically can be difficult. Homedepot has some larger outdoor enclosures that will cover one filterlinc on top of one outlet of an outletlinc.  

 

Also I just remembered an alternative to the filterlinc is the XPNR. Even though its designed for X10, these have worked well for me on insteon for both lowvoltage lighting transformers and motors. Its wired right in the workbox of the offending devices, no filterlic needed then. 

 

Paul

[pixpop]

Is there any reason to prefer using a range extender on each leg vs some other dual band device such as a switch or outlet? Is there anything special about the range extender?

[mwester]

What's special about a range extender?  Absolutely nothing.  In fact, I think someone on this forum took one apart and found it has the same board (with different firmware, I suspect) as a normal plugin module.

 

Keep in mind, though, that a plugin module will probably have better range than a wired-in module -- simply due to the fact that the plugin module isn't stuck inside the wall, often behind a metal plate, and sometimes inside a metal box.  So use a couple of plug-in modules, and you'll be fine.

[Brian H]

Only difference is slightly less costly but also has no output being controlled.

Mine is a 2457D2 Lamplinc with all the dimmer area of the PC board not populated and a case with no opening for the output outlet.

Even has the same FCC Database ID on it as a standard 2457D2.

Some have decided to get a fully functional module and keep the added output feature in case needs changed.

 

The only advantage of any model plug in type Dual Band module. Over a hard wired one. Is you can move them around to find places where there are greater improvements. Also hard wired modules in metal electrical boxed have less range or directional coverage with the RF signals being degraded by the metal.