Insteon 2441TH Problems

[Pcarp]

I been having problems with this thermostat with the "Heat/Cool State" field.  I use that field for a trigger in a program which works fine most of the time but at times that field will be clear.  Usually the field has " Idle, Cooling, or Heating" in it.  I do have several of these thermostats in operation and they all exhibit the same problem. These thermostats only have the 24V applied no other connections. I do have the 2732-242 thermostat for my geothermal and it works flawlessly so far. I have contacted Smarthome but they have no solution yet. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks Paul

[mwester]

In general, when a field has no value at all, it is because the ISY doesn't know what the value is.  This commonly happens when the ISY boots up -- it has no idea what state various things are in, until one of two things happens -- either the device in question reports in proactively, or when the device in question is queried.

 

There's a query done at 3AM every morning, and optionally you can arrange for a query to be done at boot time -- the combination of the two ensures that there should only be a short time interval where that value is blank.  Note that there's an exception for battery-powered devices -- they cannot be queried, so they will remain blank until they report in.  For motion sensors and things like that, that can be up to 24 hours.  IIRC, the Insteon thermostats are odd boogers, and may or may not respond to a query, or may only return partial information in a query.

 

I'd suggest the following:

 

- when next the value is blank, perform a manual query from the ISY console to see if the device responds correctly to a query.

- if it does, then write a program to query the 'stat every once in a while (say, 15 minutes or so -- no need to run more than that) -- that'll ensure that you usually have valid results.

- in any case, modify your program so that it can handle the blank state more elegantly.

- make sure that whatever purpose you have for those insteon thermostats, it isn't anything *critical* -- never rely on Insteon or any other HA solution as the sole means to keep your house from freezing!

[stusviews]

The display can't be used as a trigger. Do you mean Heat Ctl and Cool Ctl which don't depend on the display, but rather if the thermostat is calling for heating or cooling. Note that the thermostat can be in heat or cool mode w/o actually cooling or heating (i.e., setpoint has been reached).

[Pcarp]

I have tried querying the stats in the past with out any luck.  The field that I am talking about is called the Heat/Cool State on the ISY display for the thermostat.  Some times the only way to get the thermostat to fill that field is to delete and re enter the thermostat. That field should have one of the three Idle, Heating or Cooling in it.

 

I just use the information in the field  to control some dampers and a booster fan not mission critical .  I have found a way around the problem.  I do have the Insteon thermostat for a heatpump connected to the Geothermal unit and it populates the field ok.  

 

Thanks

Paul

[stusviews]

Once again, the display cannot be a trigger. However the Mode of the thermostat can. Is that what you are using?

[Pcarp]

The work around I used is to use the mode for the trigger.  Still the field that I am having problems is called Heat/Cool State which can be used like the Mode field for program control.  I will attempt to attach a screen shot of the device I feel that I am not explaining it properly.  

 

Thanks Again

PaulScreen Shot 2017-06-09 at 8.21.22 AM.pdfScreen Shot 2017-06-09 at 8.23.00 AM.pdf

[larryllix]

Any time you reboot ISY the fields will be blank until you do a query, and the device is not on batteries, or the device changes a status and sends the update to ISY to populate the field. ISY is set up to do an automatic query in the middle of the night. Some fields will not update on any query and this is more frequent with battery operated Insteon products.

 

When ISY wakes up from a power down it doesn't know information it hasn't been given. The best thing it can do is not fake it and show a blank field. Not that nice for the user but I see no way around it.

 

I have two 2441ZTH battery units and the newer model cannot be controlled, whatsoever, from ISY. SmartyPants has changed their firmware versions so many times without documentation that it is really hard to trust their devices for purchase. It's like reching into a barrel of apples blindfolded and hoping you don't get a rotten one. They will eventually pay for this poor attitude and lack of professionalism.

[Pcarp]

Did reboot the ISY and sure enough that field was blank.  The query will not populate it, if i change the heat cool mode to force it to change mode states the field will then populate.  

 

Thanks

Paul

[larryllix]

Did reboot the ISY and sure enough that field was blank.  The query will not populate it, if i change the heat cool mode to force it to change mode states the field will then populate.  

 

Thanks

Paul

Yup. ISY cannot know what it hasn't been told.

[apostolakisl]

This is the exact issue I am having and have been describing in another thread.

 

It appears that "state" is a non-confirmed transmission from the thermostat that if it doesn't get picked up on first try it just dies.

 

And you can't query it.

[apostolakisl]

Once again, the display cannot be a trigger. However the Mode of the thermostat can. Is that what you are using?

 

Heating/cooling is a trigger event (not to be confused with heat and cool mode).  If the thermostat starts cooling, it sends a "cool ctl" on comm or off or heat ctl on/off.  If ISY fails to get it, then the "State" field is incorrect.  

 

Since it is a ctl command, it has no state from the perspective of the thermostat and doesn't report to a query.  It is like a control fast on, there is no "State" to that as far as the switch is concerned.  However, the switch does have a state of "on", and unfortunately the thermostat has no similar state of "cooling" or "heating", just a state of mode and temp.

 

It is very frustrating that if the ctl command doesn't get through, then you have no way to recover.

[apostolakisl]

Did reboot the ISY and sure enough that field was blank.  The query will not populate it, if i change the heat cool mode to force it to change mode states the field will then populate.  

 

Thanks

Paul

 

ISY will only receive this "State" upon the thermostat changing from idle to heat/cool or vice versa.   It is like a switch that you press "on".  The "on" press is an event, not a state and can't be queried later.

 

You can force populate the field by forcing the thermostat to start cooling/heating or stop heating/cooling.  

 

ie, if it is currently cooling, then change the temp setting so that it has satisfied temp and sends a ctrl cool off (and of course stops cooling).  Assuming the comm made it to ISY, then it will now say idle.

 

I find it very annoying to say the least that "cooling" "heating" and "idle" are not considered states by the thermostat that respond to a query.  It is as if it were an on/off switch that only reported a control on/off upon press of the button but refused to respond to a query of the state after that.