ramdom device communication issue

[autoperformance]

I have ISY99i pro with PLM and some Insteon synclink to control front house lights.

 

So sometime I have communication issus with 1 of my 6 Insteon devices. Sometimes this device work perfectly during couple of day and suddently stop to work (almost in the evening).

 

I have a repeater at 5 feets of the switch and the ISY is just underneath at the basement.

 

I change the device for a know good one and the samething happen.

 

There is a way to know what could cause this communication problems?

 

Thank you

 

[stusviews]

1. How are you using the SynchroLinc to control your front house lights?

2.Which specific devices are you having a problem with? What are the loads, LEDs, CFLs, incandescent bulbs. something else.

3.All Insteon devices are repeaters. what are you referring to when you mention "repeater?"

[autoperformance]

I using Insteon switch 2477D for all my lighting control.

I have two range extender 2992-222. I bough that because I thing I had dead spot for my front house lighting. (It's why "I  thought" my device work randomly) But not seem to be the case. Maybe I don't use the range extender correctly (bad setting).

 

My program control for my front house lighting is that :

 

Front House Light - [iD 0002][Parent 0001]

If
        From    Sunset  + 20 minutes
        To      10:00:00PM (same day)
 
Then
        Repeat 5 times
           Set Scene 'Front Lighting' On
 
Else
        Wait  30 minutes  (Random)
        Repeat 5 times
           Set Scene 'Front Lighting' Off

 

 

 

It's the only switch with communication problem.

 

On this electric braker I have living room tv and tv recorder and obviously the front house light.

 

I bought  Insteon Hardwired Powerline Phase Coupler "but not install yet"

 

To be honnest, I have difficulty to understand why a system using RF and powerline couldn't work when a range extender is at 10 feet of the device??

 

Like I said I already try to fix this issue with a brand new switch 2477D, but I still have the problem.

 

My front house light is recessed 6 watts LED GU10.

 

Thanks for you help.

 

 

[stusviews]

The 2477D is not a SynchroLinc, it's a SwitchLinc dimmer. That's OK, you're probably new at this and haven't learned all the terms.

 

The first thing thing that comes to mind are the living room TV and TV recorder. Some device put so much noise on the powerline that they overcome home automation signals, even those that are RF. The Insteon device is, after all, a powerline controller. A solution is a filter. A test is to unplug the TV and TV recorder (they must be unplugged, turning them off is inadequate) and see if the program runs correctly.

 

A second concern is your GU10 LED bulbs. If they're not specifically labelled to be dimmed, then they won't function correctly on a dimmer. Even if they do, you will significantly reduce the life of both the bulbs and the dimmer. That's because even at full on, most dimmers clip the waveform

[oberkc]

I also wonder why the rf side does not overcome powerline noise but that is consistent with my perceptions from reading the posts around here. Like stusviews, I would definitely be concerned over tv and related items. Also make sure your plm is not surronded by lots of computer equipment and gadgets.

 

If there is any doubt about the plm location, try using an extension cord for the plm, plugging it into a completely different circuit.

 

I dont see any problems with the program.

[autoperformance]

The 2477D is not a SynchroLinc, it's a SwitchLinc dimmer. That's OK, you're probably new at this and haven't learned all the terms.

 

The first thing thing that comes to mind are the living room TV and TV recorder. Some device put so much noise on the powerline that they overcome home automation signals, even those that are RF. The Insteon device is, after all, a powerline controller. A solution is a filter. A test is to unplug the TV and TV recorder (they must be unplugged, turning them off is inadequate) and see if the program runs correctly.

 

A second concern is your GU10 LED bulbs. If they're not specifically labelled to be dimmed, then they won't function correctly on a dimmer. Even if they do, you will significantly reduce the life of both the bulbs and the dimmer. That's because even at full on, most dimmers clip the waveform

Thank you for your advice.

 

My GU10 led bulbs are labelled to be dimmed.

I will try to unplug the TV and Recorder to do some test. There are a lot of little power supply too, For Wireless headphone, recorder and finally for sound bar.

 

If it's the case... could you send me a link of a good filter?

 

Thanks again

[autoperformance]

I also wonder why the rf side does not overcome powerline noise but that is consistent with my perceptions from reading the posts around here. Like stusviews, I would definitely be concerned over tv and related items. Also make sure your plm is not surronded by lots of computer equipment and gadgets.

 

If there is any doubt about the plm location, try using an extension cord for the plm, plugging it into a completely different circuit.

 

I dont see any problems with the program.

I will try an extension cord for the PLM.  Right Now the PLM are connected on a power bar on a APC Back ups with (rooter, cable modem, NSA, Camera Recorder, ISY ) lot of little power supply.

 

Maybe a filter would be a good start ? Do you know where I can buy one ?

 

Thank you

[autoperformance]

I also wonder why the rf side does not overcome powerline noise but that is consistent with my perceptions from reading the posts around here. Like stusviews, I would definitely be concerned over tv and related items. Also make sure your plm is not surronded by lots of computer equipment and gadgets.

 

If there is any doubt about the plm location, try using an extension cord for the plm, plugging it into a completely different circuit.

 

I dont see any problems with the program.

How the RF work exactly with Insteon ? It's like there are no RF at all.

 

Maybe it's my range extender that is misconfigured too. I only got it connected and nothing else?

[Techman]

How the RF work exactly with Insteon ? It's like there are no RF at all.

 

Maybe it's my range extender that is misconfigured too. I only got it connected and nothing else?

 

The PLM should be only plugged directly into an outlet. Some powerstrips, and the UPS filter the PLM signal from the powerline.

 

Also the UPS can create noise on the powerline and you might have to add a filterlinc between the UPS and the powerline.

[oberkc]

Agree with techman...get the plm off power strips and away from all that computer stuff. Those power conditioning ners and battery backups are definite suspect. Were this me, I would put all this stuff on a filter, mo question. Try the extension n cord for sure and see if that solves your problem.

 

I have no inside knowledge about how the rf side works. I only know what I read here, which seems to be a consistent perception that the rf does not necessarily help much with powerline noise issues.

 

I know of no configuration settings for a range extender. I would consider this possibility no further.

 

Filters are available from smarthome. Search for filterlinc.

[stusviews]

A Range Extender only needs to be plugged in to be fully functional. There are no settings, but there is a test. Tap the set button four times very, very quickly. The LED should start blinking and the RS should beep. If that doesn't happen, then you didn't press the set button four times quickly enough. Try again.

 

Observe the set LEDs on other devices. Green means that the devices are on opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. That's good. If the LED is red, then the RE is communicating with that device on the same leg. That's good as long as you have at least on green device. No LED means that the RE cannot reach that device.

[Techman]

Regarding the Insteon RF signal, the antenna in the switchlinc is located in the back of the device. If the switchlinc is mounted in a metal box the RF signal will be somewhat compromised.

 

The range extenders or any dual band plug in device, such as a lamplinc or on/off module, will greatly improve the RF signal as the antenna is external and is surrounded by plastic housing.

[jtara92101]

Plug the PLM directly into the wall. You are probably getting NO signal onto or from the power line! A UPS and/or filter (as might be contained in a power strip) will isolate the PLM from the power line.

 

And get it away from your electronic equipment. At least plugged into an outlet a few feet away, if not on another circuit. The best place is somewhere close to the breaker box, but that's not always practical.

 

In theory, it might seem a good idea to put the PLM on a UPS. If you lose power AND your router is on a UPS, AND it's not an area outage that has disrupted your Internet connection, AND the ISY is on a UPS, then you would still have a working network with any wireless-only devices. (Switch contacts, motion detectors, etc.) which might be useful You could get notifications when the zombies break-in to your home.

 

But if you put the PLM on a UPS, you almost certainly won't have any injection or reception of power-line signals by the PLM. Sure, a dual device would then inject the signal onto the power line, but now you've eaten-up a hop, and you only get 3. You will use a hop to get to devices on the opposite leg of your split single-phase power supply. This leaves you NO margin for error.

 

I don't know that I would bother with the hard-wired phase coupler. It will just couple a weakened signal to the other leg. It is not an active repeater. I think it could even make things worse.

[stusviews]

IMO, a hard-wired phase coupler is the ultimate device to bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. Because signals traverse each and every wire on a particular leg, virtually all signals reach the panel. At that point, the signal is sent full strength to the opposite leg. There is no interference, so there's no need to repeat the signal. All other Insteon devices supplement this bridge.

[jtara92101]

IMO, a hard-wired phase coupler is the ultimate device to bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. Because signals traverse each and every wire on a particular leg, virtually all signals reach the panel. At that point, the signal is sent full strength to the opposite leg. There is no interference, so there's no need to repeat the signal. All other Insteon devices supplement this bridge.

 

Phase couplers are passive devices, though. They will inject a weakened signal.

 

Repeaters are active devices. They will inject a signal at full level as specified for Insteon signals.

 

Each has it's merits. Repeaters inject the maximum signal. Phase couplers don't waste a hop.

 

I could see a phase coupler IF your PLM is very close to the breaker box.

[Dr Pepper]

They should have the ability to shut off the power line carrier signal on all devices.  This way if you have noise on one particular circuit you could turn off the power line carrier receiver for that device and use RF only and not have to buy filters etc.

[jtara92101]

They should have the ability to shut off the power line carrier signal on all devices.  This way if you have noise on one particular circuit you could turn off the power line carrier receiver for that device and use RF only and not have to buy filters etc.

 

In fact, the latest Insteon devices have this option. You can disable the PLC, the RF, or (!) both.

 

If you disable both, you have to reset the device. Ask me how I know.

 

I don't think they will be doing this on revs - just new devices so far. The dual outletlinc has this option.

[oberkc]

They should have the ability to shut off the power line carrier signal on all devices.

Then it would be a zwave device.

 

In all seriousness, I am not sure that the rf side is strong enough to work on its own.

[Dr Pepper]

Then it would be a zwave device.

 

In all seriousness, I am not sure that the rf side is strong enough to work on its own.

 

Actually the PLC side is to weak to work on its own being a 5 Vpp signal on the power line.  That is why they needed to add the RF to get around the problems inherent to PLC devices.  The RF signal can probably go 30 feet or greater in an average house and a couple of hundred feet outside. 

 

I think most noise issues are from the power line not the RF side but I have no data to back that up.  I never tested the RF range on Insteon only Zwave and there I find it varies somewhat from device to device. 

 

I dont think any mfg will really do PLC only devices going forward.  With the advances in RF tech it is much more reliable (but nothing is perfect) than PLC.

 

While shutting off the PLC makes it an RF only device it is definitely not the same as Zwave.  Zwave Plus is loaded with features not found in the Insteon protocol yet. Insteon has some catching up to do and it looks like the started with the new motion detector.  It will take time with only one mfg. 

[stusviews]

Powerline interference can be filtered, RF interference cannot.

[mwester]

Powerline interference can be filtered, RF interference cannot.

 

Actually, it can be filtered.  But few have the tools, or interest, to do so.  And in point of fact, as we observe from the reports on this forum from frustrated users, fewer and fewer are willing to deal with the challenges of filtering the powerlline interference.

[autoperformance]

In fact, the latest Insteon devices have this option. You can disable the PLC, the RF, or (!) both.

 

If you disable both, you have to reset the device. Ask me how I know.

 

I don't think they will be doing this on revs - just new devices so far. The dual outletlinc has this option.

How do you disable PLC on a device ?

For my problems of noise do you think my inverter heatpump fujitsu "mini split"could make noise on the powerline ?

[stusviews]

How do you disable PLC on a device ?

 

To date, only the dual On/Off Outlet has that option.

[lilyoyo1]

The insteon Powerline signal can travel up to a mile uninterrupted​. The Rf can go about 150to a Max 300 feet open air.

 

The RF signal is tied to the powerline to avoid collisions. If the plm is plugged into a surge protector, it could interfere with the powerline's timing with the zero crossing which could potentially affect the rf

[autoperformance]

I'm just asking questions about a problem I have right now. I use a motion detector that activates a lamp switch, but the program don't work. I programmed an email alert when the motion sensor is activated. During movement I receive an e-mail activity. In addition, the lamp switch works via mobilic manually. Unfortunately, the program between two devices does not work.

 

Could you help me to find what is my problem.