Insteon devices behind a UPS

[dmorales]

Hello everyone, I have 2 different scenarios where I need to have IOLinc's behind a UPS so they can stay on during a power outage:

 

Scenario 1: My garage gate is huge, and difficult to manually operate it when there is no power, so I decided to rewire the circuit to which it connects so it can be behind a 1500 VA / 900 W UPS. This gate is also controlled using an IOLinc that has to be on the same circuit for wiring purposes

 

Scenario 2: I have automated my electical fence system, allowing me to control it via an IOLinc set to N.O. operation mode. Given I've interrupted the circuit and it is no longer physically operational, I need to have this IOLinc behind a UPS so the fence continues to be on during a power outage.

 

The problem with the 2 scenarios above is of course, I now have erratic behaviour when communicating with the IOLinc's given the UPS's are absorbing the powerline signals most of the times and/or producing noise.

 

Question: if I connect an Insteon Repeater (2992-222 Range Extender) into the same UPS, will I be able to improve the performance of the IOLinc's by having them listen to the "injected" signals of the repeater into the circuit or will the UPS absorb those too?

 

Thanks for the help.

[Techman]

Hello everyone, I have 2 different scenarios where I need to have IOLinc's behind a UPS so they can stay on during a power outage:

 

Scenario 1: My garage gate is huge, and difficult to manually operate it when there is no power, so I decided to rewire the circuit to which it connects so it can be behind a 1500 VA / 900 W UPS. This gate is also controlled using an IOLinc that has to be on the same circuit for wiring purposes

 

Scenario 2: I have automated my electical fence system, allowing me to control it via an IOLinc set to N.O. operation mode. Given I've interrupted the circuit and it is no longer physically operational, I need to have this IOLinc behind a UPS so the fence continues to be on during a power outage.

 

The problem with the 2 scenarios above is of course, I now have erratic behaviour when communicating with the IOLinc's given the UPS's are absorbing the powerline signals most of the times and/or producing noise.

 

Question: if I connect an Insteon Repeater (2992-222 Range Extender) into the same UPS, will I be able to improve the performance of the IOLinc's by having them listen to the "injected" signals of the repeater into the circuit or will the UPS absorb those too?

 

Thanks for the help.

 

An IOlinc is a powerline only device. It needs to be plugged directly into an outlet not a UPS which will filter the Insteon signal.

A dual band device is of no benefit as the IOlinc doesn't have a RF module.

[dmorales]

An IOlinc is a powerline only device. It needs to be plugged directly into an outlet not a UPS which will filter the Insteon signal.

A dual band device is of no benefit as the IOlinc doesn't have a RF module.

Thanks Techman, I know IOLinc is powerline only, and hence the reason for this problem. I understand from the description of the repeater it is dual band, and the theory is it would "hear" from RF and inject the signal back into powerline, effectively phasing the 2, that way the IOLinc could still get the signal. Is my assumption correct?

 

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[mwester]

Your assumption is correct *IF* the UPS supplied a pure sine-wave.  Most do not -- it's a "modified sine wave", and that really messes up the Insteon protocol (it can't find the zero-crossing point reliably).

 

So basically unless you get a commercial-grade pure-sine-wave UPS, there will be no signal getting to the IOLincs over the power-line -- and lacking any RF hardware, that leaves them deaf as a post, and less useful than a post.

 

I'd suggest you take a look at a pure RF solution that isn't so sensitive to the power -- I think there are a few z-wave equivalents out there.

[Techman]

Several years ago I spoke with Smarthome about updating the IOLincs with RF. At that time I was told it was in the works. I think the company has been in a state of flux for the last year or two. I remain hopeful that the new management will pick up the ball and run with it.  Time will tell.

[Brian H]

Many UPS units also have an AC Input noise/surge conditioning on their AC power input.

They can absorb Insteon and X10 power line commands as noise.

So some may degrade the power line signals even if the I/OLinc is on the AC input side of the UPS.

[larryllix]

It would be trial and error only. There are too many factors to know ahead of the trial.

 

I would try the daal band unit closer to other Insteon equipment so the rf can jump over the UPS, and the IOLink at the far end of the circuit run at the gate.

 

Using a dual-band unit allows you to repurpose the dual-band unit, should it all fail.

[dmorales]

Thanks everyone. I have ordered the extender and will conduct testing upon receiving it. Will report back on my findings

 

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[Teken]

Thanks everyone. I have ordered the extender and will conduct testing upon receiving it. Will report back on my findings

 

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If you're committed to doing this ensure you piggy back the AP / RE on the top outlet of the I/O Linc. Placing the AP / RE on an adjacent UPS outlet is wasting time and effort.

[dmorales]

If you're committed to doing this ensure you piggy back the AP / RE on the top outlet of the I/O Linc. Placing the AP / RE on an adjacent UPS outlet is wasting time and effort.

Thanks Teken. You read my mind

 

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[Teken]

Thanks Teken. You read my mind

 

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If your order hasn't yet been processed and shipped I would encourage you to purchase the On-Off Module instead. The primary reason is it offers dual use and also enables the person to turn On-Off the RF vs Power Line and other features. The AP / RE offers no such options and also does not give you a secondary use should it be repurposed.

[dmorales]

If your order hasn't yet been processed and shipped I would encourage you to purchase the On-Off Module instead. The primary reason is it offers dual use and also enables the person to turn On-Off the RF vs Power Line and other features. The AP / RE offers no such options and also does not give you a secondary use should it be repurposed.

The problem with that approach is that neither of the devices up for controlling is as simple as plug and unplug functionality. They requiere wiring to achieve the job (trigger) and hence the only option is the IOLinc.

 

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[Teken]

The problem with that approach is that neither of the devices up for controlling is as simple as plug and unplug functionality. They requiere wiring to achieve the job (trigger) and hence the only option is the IOLinc.

 

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True, my feedback was more geared toward (IF) you intend to purchase any hardware its a waste of hard earned cash to buy the AP / RE. It serves only two purposes which is to relay RF only signals and transfer RF to Power Line.

 

It does not offer a secondary purpose of actual use like the Plugin On-Off Relay module. 

[larryllix]

IIRC the extenders do NOT repeat powerline Insteon.  They only convert Intseon powerline signals to rf signals and back.

 

I don't believe they repeat anything, as an On/Off module does, and only act as bridges, not reinforing the rest of yur insteon network.

[lbjpilot]

just a thought how about you use ir commands in the ups side where insteon is converted to ir output where an ir receiver switch is used in the ups side. this way you can still use your insteon setup but use ir to bridge to ups and switch.

 

 

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[lbjpilot]

I left out the fact that ir transmitter that receives insteon would not be on ups side.

 

 

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[stusviews]

I left out the fact that ir transmitter that receives insteon would not be on ups side.

 

 

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That doesn't make sense. An IR transmitter does not and cannot receive anything. Do you mean an IR receiver or an IR transceiver which is capable of both transmitting and receiving. In any case, which specific IR device (manufacturer, model, etc.) do you mean?

[lbjpilot]

What i mean is using an ir transmitter for example a 2411T from smarthome. Currenty 10 dollars, receives insteon command and then can send ir code... use that before ups..so that it can receive insteon command... then use a ir receiver that will be near the transmitter to receive the ir code and then switch on the gate.. that device can be in the ups circuit...... i did a quick google search and found "1-Channel Infrared Remote Control Relay Module IR Switch 5V" on amazon... under 10 dollars... more searching will probably find other devices to receive an ir command and toggle some power to a device... might need a bosch relay depending power that needs to be switched (using a bosch relay allows a lower power switch to switch s high power circuit)

[dmorales]

IT WORKED! Happy to announce that my little experiment did work... I have placed not 1 but 2 IOLinc's on a power strip along with the new Insteon Repeater I just received, all of that connected to a "modified sine wave" UPS. The UPS is then connected to a 15 amp noise filter to prevent it from contamining the power line itself. It worked flawlessly on the first time.

 

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[Teken]

IT WORKED! Happy to announce that my little experiment did work... I have placed not 1 but 2 IOLinc's on a power strip along with the new Insteon Repeater I just received, all of that connected to a "modified sine wave" UPS. The UPS is then connected to a 15 amp noise filter to prevent it from contamining the power line itself. It worked flawlessly on the first time.

 

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Rock On . . .