Insteon Remote Thermostat (2441ZTH) Difficulties

[svodde]

ISY / Insteon Thermostatic Technical Gurus:
 
I have two Insteon Remote Thermostats (2441ZTH), both are wired to 5V power supplys.  They are recognized by ISY (994i FW v.4.6.2) but they do not report (or ISY does not display) the 'Current State' (Temperature).  They do however report the Humidity, Set points, Mode, & Fan settings.  Is there something I am doing incorrect?   

 

Additional detail / Overview.

 

• I have a contemporary house with a finished basement open to the main floor.  The main floor opens to the 2nd floor balcony.  Typically, the 2nd floor balcony will be run warmer then the main floor, while the basement will be cooler then the main floor.  I would like to program ISY to turn the HVAC FAN ON when the 2nd floor is warm, basement is cool, and main unit is within temperature limits / idle (then back to FAN AUTO once back in range). 
• The main HVAC unit is controlled by a Insteon Heat Pump 2732-242 Thermostat (no issues).  NOTE: I do not want the remotes to control cooling or heating functions so Scene / slaving is out.
• From a 'programming' approach, this should be relatively simple to accomplish by using the two remotes thermostats for temperature state (If / And variables) and changing the Fan Setting  on the HVAC Thermostat (Then action).  BUT . . . ISY isn't getting the temperature...

I am welcome to other solutions however I do not want the two remotes to trigger the system into heat or cool as it will exacerbate the divergence between top and bottom levels.

 

Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.

[stusviews]

The wireless thermostat will report its state to the ISY even if the display is blank. So you can use it in a program. Often, if the temperature changes, it will show in the display. In any case, try creating a program and observe the result as shown in the thermostat display.

 

Do not link the wireless thermostat(s) to the wired thermostat if you do not want them to control your HVAC.

[BigMoose1]

I have two 2441zth thermostats that I use to control fans and a heater. They work fine.

 

I just bought a third one two weeks ago. I had to return that one and the one Smarthome sent to replace it. The first one never would link to the ISY. The second one would link but it would not communicate information back to the ISY. All the fields remained blank. I am awaiting the third one to see if I have better luck. Firmware is Version 1.6.

 

I am running version 4.6.2

[stusviews]

I am running version 4.6.2

 

Firmware, UI or both?

[larryllix]

ISY / Insteon Thermostatic Technical Gurus:

 

I have two Insteon Remote Thermostats (2441ZTH), both are wired to 5V power supplys.  They are recognized by ISY (994i FW v.4.6.2) but they do not report (or ISY does not display) the 'Current State' (Temperature).  They do however report the Humidity, Set points, Mode, & Fan settings.  Is there something I am doing incorrect?   

 

Additional detail / Overview.

 

• I have a contemporary house with a finished basement open to the main floor.  The main floor opens to the 2nd floor balcony.  Typically, the 2nd floor balcony will be run warmer then the main floor, while the basement will be cooler then the main floor.  I would like to program ISY to turn the HVAC FAN ON when the 2nd floor is warm, basement is cool, and main unit is within temperature limits / idle (then back to FAN AUTO once back in range). 
• The main HVAC unit is controlled by a Insteon Heat Pump 2732-242 Thermostat (no issues).  NOTE: I do not want the remotes to control cooling or heating functions so Scene / slaving is out.
• From a 'programming' approach, this should be relatively simple to accomplish by using the two remotes thermostats for temperature state (If / And variables) and changing the Fan Setting  on the HVAC Thermostat (Then action).  BUT . . . ISY isn't getting the temperature...

I am welcome to other solutions however I do not want the two remotes to trigger the system into heat or cool as it will exacerbate the divergence between top and bottom levels.

 

Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.

Welcome to the UDI forums!

 

It looks like the stat hasn't fully linked to your ISY.

 

I would bring it closer to a dual-band Insteon device (RF needs to be converted to powerline protocol), factory reset the stat again, delete it from ISY, and then try the linking process again.

These stats are really flakey and mine took many tries, and sometimes only once. 

 

I have two 2441ZTH stats. My older firmware init mostly works from ISY while my newer firmware unit only reports everything but no control can be done from ISY, after a few years of dozens of ISY upgrades and factory resets. Local controls update ISY just fine and it works as a probe, which is all it can do anyway.

[BigMoose1]

Sorry. Should have mentioned both firmware and UI are 4.6.2.

 

In getting the latest Themostat to link I had it sitting next to a dual band brick. While Sitting next to the PLM. It would not link. I have it sitting next to a brick but it still does not update the ISY.

 

I have factory reset the device twice. I will uninstall and try again. Nothing to lose here since I have an RMA to send it back if it will not link a second time.

[larryllix]

Sorry. Should have mentioned both firmware and UI are 4.6.2.

 

In getting the latest Themostat to link I had it sitting next to a dual band brick. While Sitting next to the PLM. It would not link. I have it sitting next to a brick but it still does not update the ISY.

 

I have factory reset the device twice. I will uninstall and try again. Nothing to lose here since I have an RMA to send it back if it will not link a second time.

In view on my experiences with two units of differring f/w versions, and now your experience with same, I think the Smarties are changing their style of interface in these stats, and not telling anybody. You may never get a newer unit to work with ISY until it's stat knowledge is expanded.

[BigMoose1]

Larryllix

 

I agree. The first zth I bought worked just fine. It is firmware 1.5. The second unit which does work is firmware 1.6 but I had a heck of a time to get it to link and finally work.

 

I removed this third one and re added. Added fine but still no updates with the use of my wife's hair dryer. As I said I have an RMA to send back. Just waiting for the replacement but I don't have very high hopes for it.

 

Too bad. I wanted to use it to get more accurate information rather than using outdoor temperature and sky condition as a proxy.

[BigMoose1]

Just wonder if anyone has recently successfully added a 2441zth thermostat firmware 1.6 to the ISY using firmware and UI 4.6.2.

 

Just finished my third attempt to add this thermostat without any luck.

[larryllix]

Never ran past about v4.2 once v5.x came out but...

 

My 2441ZTHs units are v.0D (works OK) and version v.35 (No ISY control). The units were purchased about 3 and 2 years ago.

[toddhutch]

I wanted to document this incase someone else was having the same issue.  I have successfully installed the 2441ZTH Insteon Wireless Thermostat v.0E  It took a while before the Current State showed up in ISY.  I tried many combinations, what I've ended up with was using a USB power supply and a USB cable to power the device.  (I had many laying around)  Then I added manually and factory reset a couple of times.  Eventually I found that you could connect the device using the Link Management and start linking.  I did have the device close to a Insteon 2635-222.  I think just having it up and connected for a while it eventually started sending the temperatures.  Set the thermostat mode via the ISY to Auto, and put the heat to 80 and cooling to 90.  It's working and I'm guessing it's just something you have to fiddle with.

 

Keep trying if you're having fun with it, eventually (30 minutes of playing around) it will send temps to ISY.

 

Best regards,

Todd

[larryllix]

I wanted to document this incase someone else was having the same issue. I have successfully installed the 2441ZTH Insteon Wireless Thermostat v.0E It took a while before the Current State showed up in ISY. I tried many combinations, what I've ended up with was using a USB power supply and a USB cable to power the device. (I had many laying around) Then I added manually and factory reset a couple of times. Eventually I found that you could connect the device using the Link Management and start linking. I did have the device close to a Insteon 2635-222. I think just having it up and connected for a while it eventually started sending the temperatures. Set the thermostat mode via the ISY to Auto, and put the heat to 80 and cooling to 90. It's working and I'm guessing it's just something you have to fiddle with.

 

Keep trying if you're having fun with it, eventually (30 minutes of playing around) it will send temps to ISY.

 

Best regards,

Todd

2441ZTH only sends temperatures when it changes value.

Until then ISY should show a blank because it doesn't know the value.

 

Humidity updates about every 5 minutes on batteries and evrry 1 minute on AC.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[toddhutch]

@larryllix,

 

I understand, but what is not true, is when first trying to set it up nothing shows up for the temp.  Even while temp is changing dramatically, 80 to 50 and nothings.  Once the value is sent however it always shows up.  So the issue I'm referring to is no value showing up for the current temp at the ISY interface. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Todd

[larryllix]

@larryllix,

 

I understand, but what is not true, is when first trying to set it up nothing shows up for the temp. Even while temp is changing dramatically, 80 to 50 and nothings. Once the value is sent however it always shows up. So the issue I'm referring to is no value showing up for the current temp at the ISY interface.

 

Best Regards,

 

Todd

In that case it sounds like your stat is not fully linked to your ISY or the comm is failing at times.

 

I have two of these. One fully works and the newer one cannot be controlled at all.

 

How are changing the sensed temperature from 80 down to 50?

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[toddhutch]

@larryllix

 

I'm just using the device to report the temperature.  I have it my garage, when it falls below a certain point I turn on using the ISY a insteon switch. (Connected to a portable heater)

 

The initial setup was the only pain in the butt.  

[cosyn]

@toddhutch I have had three 244zths (rev1.3, v.0D) since 2014 that worked fine when I added them initially. They reported temperature, humidity, heating/cooling state fine. I needed them mainly for reporting temperature & humidity, where an ISY program turns on an electric heater at certain temperatures.

One of them died of corrosion (it was in a warm, high humidity environment in a greenhouse). I bought two of them used on eBay this month, one to replace the broken device and a spare. They seem to be on a long stock-out at smarthome.com. I figured better to have a spare in case they've decided to stop manufacturing them.

One is also rev1.3, v.0D; the other is rev 1.6. For both of them I'm having the same problem you're reporting:
- added them to the admin console using the New Device dialogue, with the device within 2 feet of the dual band PLM (2413S v9e)

- running ISY firmware v.4.7.3

- temperature, humidity and heating/cooling state are displaying on the thermostats fine, running off batteries

- humidity and heating/cooling state are reported to ISY but NOT temperature

- I set the heat to 80 and cooling to 90 as you suggested. Heating/cooling state when changed using the mode button on the thermostats are also updated to ISY

- tried removing/adding the devices back about 8 times so far

- tried adding back to ISY using the "start linking" dialogue. Still no reporting of the temperature

- have waited >24 hours and temperature doesn't report to ISY for either device, even with changes to the temperature displayed on the devices

 

Based on this, it seems like there's a persistent communication problem for temperature. I'll try other things like rebooting the ISY and putting the thermostats on DC power when I get a chance.

[smokegrub]

For what its worth, I have a zth that is powered with a dongle. Every couple of weeks the unit needs a reboot.

[larryllix]

I have two 2441ZTH units. An earlier software works just fine. The later version firmware connects to ISY and ISY reports it updated things upon changes made by ISY (It lies) Then later when it updates or I query it the settings go back to their original settings. In short it only works as a probe. I have factory reset and linked to ISY probably 30 times over the last 3-4 years. It works as a probe only. Both my units are on 5V wallwarts.

When I initially link these units to ISY, knowing they won't ever update without about 1.5 - 2.0 degrees of temperature change, I blow hot air into the bottom left where the sensor is located. A hair dryer works well. Then I see ISY have results and know it will update later also.

Complete junk that Insteon should be ashamed of themselves for and refund all funds ripped from the unsuspecting public. Trouble is, the Insteon freaks like me, will pay for it in the end, as their products are getting a very bad market reputation and the company will likely die a slow death, leaving their dedicated consumers all hanging with empty wallets.

[larryllix]

@Michel Kohanim After replacing my PLM last night (I was probably fooled by powerline noise from a new GDO with a battery charger), on closer examination of all device comm statuses,  I find both my 2441ZTH Insteon thermostats not receiving any temperature data from the stats. These units were working previously. I am not sure when they stopped updating the temperature field.

 

On the older firmware unit that worked in previous ISY versions, ISY can change parameters like heat and cold setpoints, status updates (even after a query) but temperature never updates and remains blank. I did not notice this previously as I have an automatic flip over to a CAO wireless tag to continue functions. 
I have seen others having this problem with v5.0.14 Beta.

 

Thanks.

[Michel Kohanim]

@larryllix,

O boy! The ZTH nightmare. Is your ZTH battery operated or is it powered? Please note that with battery operated ZTHs, you don't get status updates. Also, are you certain it's set to Master mode since in Slave mode it does not report anything.

You might want to unlink and relink and see if that help though I doubt it.

With kind regards,
Michel

[larryllix]

9 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@larryllix,

O boy! The ZTH nightmare. Is your ZTH battery operated or is it powered? Please note that with battery operated ZTHs, you don't get status updates. Also, are you certain it's set to Master mode since in Slave mode it does not report anything.

You might want to unlink and relink and see if that help though I doubt it.

With kind regards,
Michel

Both are AC operated off a 5vdc adapter but have batteries inside for backup. 

AFAIK I haven't changed anything in either except to put them in linking mode and "write updates to device" for the PLM change.
The humidity doesn't seem to be updating and I can't find any events in the Event Log level 3 at all.
When queried (not in linking mode) the humidity, modes and setpoints update.

I will look for the master/slave mode now.
Then I will try dropping the stat and relinking from scratch. This hasn't been done since about v5.0.2.

Thanks

[larryllix]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 2:11 PM, Michel Kohanim said:

@larryllix,

O boy! The ZTH nightmare. Is your ZTH battery operated or is it powered? Please note that with battery operated ZTHs, you don't get status updates. Also, are you certain it's set to Master mode since in Slave mode it does not report anything.

You might want to unlink and relink and see if that help though I doubt it.

With kind regards,
Michel

Success! I followed the manual instructions using the Master Button on the stats (failed) and then tried the same in the Linking mode.

Although I could get no LCD indication of Master (as per manual) the temperatures began updating on both my stats. The stubborn newer unit needed the Linking mode  the next day, after having success with the co-operative older unit first.

Thanks! Back in business.

[Michel Kohanim]

@larryllix,

I am so very glad you got it working. As I mentioned, "ZTH nightmare"

With kind regards,
Michel

[larryllix]

57 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@larryllix,

I am so very glad you got it working. As I mentioned, "ZTH nightmare"

With kind regards,
Michel

So primitive  and inconsistent in itself, and between released models.
They were probably the best, 4-5 years ago.

[smokegrub]

I have had a zth stat powered by a dongle for several years. I found that I had to reboot that stat about once a month for it to report correctly. I accomplished that by controlling the power with an Insteon device. Bandaid solution but it works. I also hate the fact that it reports only two degree changes. I have it "backed up" with a CAO tag which works beautifully. This setup is at a remote location and I use the temperature data to let me know if the propane/pilot lit heating system has failed. I am a big fan of the tags. I have them in a crawl space, on my mailbox to announce deliveries, on doors to detect openings and closings and everywhere I want to measure temperature and/or humidity. Their range is awesome as is the battery life.