What are these customized "Options" for the synchrolinc?

[someguy]

When I click the "options" button, I find three options.  I can understand what the "Trigger Threshold (watts)" means.  

 

I can guess, but I'd like to have a description or maybe a suggestion as to when I might change these:

 

"Holdoff (Secs)" 

"Hysteresis (Watts)"

[G W]

I saw a post on here months ago that gave a good explanation.

 

Frankly, SmartHome's explanation is terrible.

 

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[Brian H]

There are a few threads here on the Synchrolinc. I used the advanced search to find some.

This one seems to shed some light on it. There are others.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15797-synchrolinc-timers/?hl=synchrolinc

[someguy]

I apologize.  for some reason that didn't come up when I searched for it.  For those who end up here and want an answer, here is what seems to be the best answer from garybixler on the above linked thread:

 

 

Hi stusviews

I found this on a search. It would appear that the hold off is for delaying sending an Insteon message. 

 

- Trigger Threshold is in Watts, from (0 Watts) to (1800 Watts).

 

- Hold off is in approx 0.067 second increments, from (0 seconds) to (approx 17 seconds). Messages will transmit immediately once the holdoff time has passed.

 

- Hysteresis is in Watts, from (0 Watts) to (255 Watts). This is the change that must occur before checking to trigger SyncroLinc.

 

 

If hold off is the maximum time allowed for the device being listened to change when would the timer actually start. I would think that turning a device on would be the change so I don't see where the timer would be of any use.

 

Anyway I am trying to monitor my washer and instead I am using a program to make the necessary delay between the short off periods between changing cycles. So I set the SynchroLinc to:

Trigger Thershold 4

Holdoff 3

Hysteresis 0

This way even the low current for the electric water valves keep the SynchroLinc status ON during fill cycles.

Now on to the dryer.

 

Just confused about the Hold off timer.

Thanks Gary

 

 

[G W]

That's the one I remember but never took the time to test.

 

<!---

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My statements are my own opinions and do not represent those that hire my services. --->

[Illusion]

Alright,

I have been working on this for 4 hours today. Finally I got a variable wattage load and an unused  synchrolinc. I have been working in a controlled environment to come up with this.

Here is watt the values mean: (cute funny typo intentional!)

Trigger Threshold is off wattage. Any wattage draw from the connected device at or below this level will cause an Off Insteon command.

Holdoff is how long SynchroLinc will wait from last On/Off Insteon Command before sending another command. This prevents quick cycling. An on or off command is sent immediately if it has been longer than the holdoff since last command. If an on command has just been sent and the connected device immediately shuts back off, the Synchrolinc will wait the holdoff period before sending the off command. If the device turns back on in that window, and is still on when the holdoff expires, no command will be sent as the device is on and that was the last command sent.

Hysteresis is added to trigger to create on level. When the device draws the Trigger Threshold wattage plus the Hysteresis wattage value the Synchrolic sends an on command.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Illusion

[larryllix]

Alright,
I have been working on this for 4 hours today. Finally I got a variable wattage load and an unused  synchrolinc. I have been working in a controlled environment to come up with this.
Here is watt the values mean: (cute funny typo intentional!)
Trigger Threshold is off wattage. Any wattage draw from the connected device at or below this level will cause an Off Insteon command.
Holdoff is how long SynchroLinc will wait from last On/Off Insteon Command before sending another command. This prevents quick cycling. An on or off command is sent immediately if it has been longer than the holdoff since last command. If an on command has just been sent and the connected device immediately shuts back off, the Synchrolinc will wait the holdoff period before sending the off command. If the device turns back on in that window, and is still on when the holdoff expires, no command will be sent as the device is on and that was the last command sent.
Hysteresis is added to trigger to create on level. When the device draws the Trigger Threshold wattage plus the Hysteresis wattage value the Synchrolic sends an on command.

No. No. And no.

The delay is stated as on delay.

The trigger is the level an On is sent.

Hysteresis is the difference between the Trigger on level and the off level.

The Off send level is the Trigger level minus the hysteresis.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Illusion]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

No. No. And no.

The delay is stated as on delay.

The trigger is the level an On is sent.

Hysteresis is the difference between the Trigger on level and the off level.

The Off send level is the Trigger level minus the hysteresis.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

I understand what you are saying, but that was not matching up with what I was experiencing in my system.  So I got a wattage meter and a variable load.

I set the trigger threshold to 30, and the hysteresis to 30. The synchrolinc turned on when the draw went up to 60W or above. Any draw below 30 once on triggered off.

I then set the threshold to 30 and the hysteresis to 40. Under your belief, the syncrolinc would never send an off command once on. But it did. It turned on above 70W and then as I reduced the wattage it again sent an off command at 30W.

Maybe my syncrolincs are different than yours.

I thought they worked exactly like you are describing, and that would actually be better for me. If you have an idea how to change the mode they work in, I would be most interested. My TV draws wildly variable wattage. I was trying to tune the synchrolinc so that it would send an on command once the TV hit about 48 watts. My problem was that when I switch inputs, the wattage drop to about 35. I set the threshold at 45 watts and no matter what I set hystersis at, the synchrolinc would throw an off command when the wattage dropped below 45 watts. I figured that if I set a high hystersis like 30 or so, the synchrolinc would not send an off command until the wattage dropped to about 15, but alas that was futile. Regardless of the hystersis setting, the synchrolinc would send an off command when the wattage dropped below the trigger wattage of 45.

I replaced that synchrolinc with a new one that had just been factory reset and it showed identical behavior. After about 150 tests with those two in system, I set up the controlled environment with a variable wattage load that I could control on a watt by watt basis at any time interval. After about 50 tests using different values with 100% repeatability I came to the conclusions that I posted.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Illusion

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, Illusion said:

I understand what you are saying, but that was not matching up with what I was experiencing in my system.  So I got a wattage meter and a variable load.

I set the trigger threshold to 30, and the hysteresis to 30. The synchrolinc turned on when the draw went up to 60W or above. Any draw below 30 once on triggered off.

I then set the threshold to 30 and the hysteresis to 40. Under your belief, the syncrolinc would never send an off command once on. But it did. It turned on above 70W and then as I reduced the wattage it again sent an off command at 30W.

Maybe my syncrolincs are different than yours.

I thought they worked exactly like you are describing, and that would actually be better for me. If you have an idea how to change the mode they work in, I would be most interested. My TV draws wildly variable wattage. I was trying to tune the synchrolinc so that it would send an on command once the TV hit about 48 watts. My problem was that when I switch inputs, the wattage drop to about 35. I set the threshold at 45 watts and no matter what I set hystersis at, the synchrolinc would throw an off command when the wattage dropped below 45 watts. I figured that if I set a high hystersis like 30 or so, the synchrolinc would not send an off command until the wattage dropped to about 15, but alas that was futile. Regardless of the hystersis setting, the synchrolinc would send an off command when the wattage dropped below the trigger wattage of 45.

I replaced that synchrolinc with a new one that had just been factory reset and it showed identical behavior. After about 150 tests with those two in system, I set up the controlled environment with a variable wattage load that I could control on a watt by watt basis at any time interval. After about 50 tests using different values with 100% repeatability I came to the conclusions that I posted.

What are you regulating/varying the load with, and what are you measuring power with?

I am not sure these things are measuring actual power but rather just current (probably not true RMS either) and multiplying it by a fictitious voltage factor. If this is the case, only average current would matter, and real power would not matter at all. Direction of power (less than zero = negative values) would be irrelevant and you would not be able to test that anyway. Power factor may do more crazy things so that it may respond to VA load instead of only real  power (watts).

If they actually do measure power (more complex) the nature of your load and test equipment becomes important to these tests. Setting your hysteresis higher than your trigger load may  causes nonsense responses from these cheaply made devices.

I have used two of these now and they both appear to be settable exactly as the names of the parameters suggest.

 

I hope you factory reset your units properly before attempting anything on them. This can be a tricky process. You wouldn't believe what I have experienced before factory resetting some Insteon devices.  I have had devices that sent out reversed statuses.

Edited March 27, 2018 by larryllix

[Brian H]

I am not sure how they get the Wattage.

I know there is a current shunt on the  board. In the Neutral output to the outlet.