Insteon Micro On/Off - Flood Light Motion Sensor

[MrBill]

15 hours ago, dbwarner5 said:

But am still looking for an elegant solution for a Motion Sense Spotlight that can talk easily to the ISY. Why this doesn't exist is puzzling Insteon moves more into the "security" area.

I used a cheap standard motion light, the old style motion head with LED floodlights.  One of the "features" of the pre-home-automation motion sensor is the "hold on", typically the feature is activated by flipping the switch off for 1 second then back on.

then I added this program:

Barn Flood Motion Override - [ID 002C][Parent 0001]

If
        'OUT Barn Motion Floods+#' is switched On
     Or '{hide}DN Slider Middle / {hide}OUT Barn Flood' is switched On
     Or 'OUT Upper Deck Fans+# / {hide}Barn Flood' is switched On
     Or 'OUT Playroom OH Door+# / {hide}OUT Barn Floods' is switched On
 
Then
        Set 'OUT Barn Flood' Off
        Wait  1 second
        Set 'OUT Barn Flood' On
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

If any of the 4 switches are turned on (one of which is ahead of the motion the rest are scene controllers) then It's turned off and back on, thus in hold mode.  If we actually want to use Motion mode we use Fast On or double tap.   (the program was once the other way around Fast On for override more, normal on for motion--but we don't use motion mode too often anymore tho, because either door opening also turns that light on).

[Derek Atkins]

@MrBillI am curious how you have your flood light / motion sensor wired to Insteon device(s)?  Do you have one or two insteon devices in there?  E.g., One connected to the motion sensor (to the sense line), and a second to the light (or possibly to the whole fixture)?  I was under the impression (although I could be wrong) that it was power to the motion sensor equipment that performed the  "hold on", which means you'd need to flip power to the whole fixture to do what you want?  I admit I have not played with my installations to test this -- but I still would like to decouple the motion sensor sense from the flood light on/off using a single Micro On/Off device wired in.

For the record, I wired mine like what you find at https://www.pinterest.com/pin/704320829205183155/

[MrBill]

4 minutes ago, Derek Atkins said:

@MrBillI am curious how you have your flood light / motion sensor wired to Insteon device(s)?  Do you have one or two insteon devices in there?  E.g., One connected to the motion sensor (to the sense line), and a second to the light (or possibly to the whole fixture)?  I was under the impression (although I could be wrong) that it was power to the motion sensor equipment that performed the  "hold on", which means you'd need to flip power to the whole fixture to do what you want?  I admit I have not played with my installations to test this -- but I still would like to decouple the motion sensor sense from the flood light on/off using a single Micro On/Off device wired in.

For the record, I wired mine like what you find at https://www.pinterest.com/pin/704320829205183155/

I'm not using the micro module.

The top switch in the program is a 2477D inside the barn door that is wire just like a single pole switch ahead of a flood light..  Pre-home automation it was just a plain old single pole switch, that controlled a motion light.  The other 3 "switches" are actually buttons on 8-button KPL's.  All 4 of those devices are Scene Controllers.   When any of the 4 are turned on, the scene turns on which provides initial power, then the program runs which turns the scene back off for one second, then back on.   

This exactly mimics what would happen in a non-automated situation.  In normal operation someone would "flip the switch" on and the equipment defaults to motion mode.  If the person wanted "hold" they would Flip On, Flip Off, Flip On.

[Derek Atkins]

3 minutes ago, MrBill said:

I'm not using the micro module.

[snip]

This exactly mimics what would happen in a non-automated situation.  In normal operation someone would "flip the switch" on and the equipment defaults to motion mode.  If the person wanted "hold" they would Flip On, Flip Off, Flip On.

Ahh, I see.  So you're not using the motion sensor as an Insteon Input!  You're using Insteon to power the whole fixture, so either it's just powered on (and motion sensor does its thing), or you do the On/Off/On to "turn the light on and hold it".  Thanks for clearing that up.

[HABit]

@Derek Atkins If you are using a micro-module relay/switch as the load controller, it also has two small gauge wires that can be employed in a 3-way switch scheme. I used one of these micro-modules in that config years ago, with a cheap flood light + PIR fixture. I wired the PIR to one of the module's wires (IIRC yellow wire), but removed it from the light load (important). So the idea is that when something triggers the PIR in the floods, it acts like a switch (load to yellow wire), that causes the micro-module load to activate, while you get a bonus of an ON (DON) insteon command to the ISY to use as a Program trigger. Be sure to take a look at the manual because (again IIRC) I believe there are several modes that may exist in the module. (Sorry no where near the manual so am being vague here). Not knowing anything about your PIR/Flood device, be sure to verify that the PIR is acting like a switch to the lamp (generally an inexpensive PIR/luminosity component is employed in these light fixtures which acts like a simple load switch - but please verify this).

[Derek Atkins]

@HABit What I would really like to do is have a single Insteon Micro On/Off that acts both as a controller and a responder, but separate those functions.  Right now, when the IR trips (connected via yellow sense wire), yes, I get the DON command, but it also turns the load on -- and when the IR times out (I think I have it set at 1 minute) I get a DOFF and the load turns off.  My issue is that if I want to manually turn the lights on and send the device a DON (e.g. from my ISY), if someone walks in front of the IR, the light turns off a minute later.  At least, I am pretty sure that's what's going on.  I'd like that not to happen; I'd like to separate the load on/off from the sense line emitting DON/DOFF.

[dbwarner5]

18 hours ago, Derek Atkins said:

@HABit What I would really like to do is have a single Insteon Micro On/Off that acts both as a controller and a responder, but separate those functions.  Right now, when the IR trips (connected via yellow sense wire), yes, I get the DON command, but it also turns the load on -- and when the IR times out (I think I have it set at 1 minute) I get a DOFF and the load turns off.  My issue is that if I want to manually turn the lights on and send the device a DON (e.g. from my ISY), if someone walks in front of the IR, the light turns off a minute later.  At least, I am pretty sure that's what's going on.  I'd like that not to happen; I'd like to separate the load on/off from the sense line emitting DON/DOFF.

Thanks for all the input. Zwave wont work fo me here as its an isolated pole barn w/o zwave. 

My plan is to purchase 3- $25 motion sensors that mount on spotlight fixtures, wire them all together to the sense from an micro on/ off, which will then through ISY manage the Insteon light switches for all the spots. The MD and the I/O linc will need power, separate from the switched floodlights.

@HABit the easiest way to overcome that is to think of the motion control and the light switch control as two separate program areas that need to compliment each other, so for example a new program with a “when switch is turned on” program, then disables the motion program for x minutes or until the switch is turned off. I will need to using something similar. 

Cheers.

Edited December 19, 2020 by dbwarner5
Corrected micro on / off from i/o linc

[HABit]

@Derek Atkins Franky, the easiest way to separate out sending a DON and controlling the flood light load, would be to just use two 2443’s (On/Off Module): One to send the DON connected to the PIR load our (via yellow wire), and another 2443 to control the load.

If you want to hack through this and attempt to use only a single 2443, then you can connect both load and 3-way switch wire (as you have now), but put the 2443 into Momentary Up/Down mode. This is supposed to be used when you have a double-throw momentary switch, where up: AC-L to yellow turns on the load (MO SW Up); Down: AC-L to purple turns the load off (MO SW Down). This effectively makes your PIR send a DON, AND will turn the load On only, never Off. Now by doing that you now need to  use a program/timer in the ISY to turn the light off after a timed interval, by sensing the 2443 DON event and timing off after your selected time period. 

First, start by creating a Scene where a switch - say a Keypad Linc button, is one of the controllers, and the 2443 is the second controller (there will be no responders in the Scene because the 2443 is both a controller and responder). With this you now have the ability to see if the load is on because the KPL button will indicate when the light load is activated.

Next you need to construct a Program - a couple actually, lets see:

You need a timed-off operation that works like this: When the 2443 sends a DON, the Program’s If statement will say:

Program (1)

IF <outside flood> Switched On

In the Then part you are going to set a State variable to whatever period of time you want to have the flood light stay on and then automatically turn off.

Timer Program (2):

This Program will trigger if the state variable is > 0, or Not 0 (however you want to do it), then count the state variable to zero after waiting one minute.

IF <outside flood timer ST> NOT 0

THEN

Wait 1 Minute

<outside flood timer ST> -= 1 

You can turn the flood load off in the ELSE part of the Program, or (my preference), use another Program (3) to detect the state variable is zero and turn off the flood load.

Now we are back to where we started because when the PIR turns on and Program (1) triggers it causes Program (2) timer to turn the load off again. So next add some gating to BOTH the On Program (1) and Program (3) that detects the DON and turns off the load.

Program (1) Modification:

IF

<outside flood> Switched On

AND   Status <KPL Btn Floods> IS Off

This prevents the timer (Program 2) from starting if the outside flood is manually turned on

Program (3) Modification:

IF 

<outside flood timer ST> IS 0

AND    Status <KPL Btn Floods> IS Off

THEN

[turn off outside flood light load]....

You can play with the Programs to achieve exactly the results you want if you need additional controls on the lights. You may also consider using another variable to keep track of the KPL <outside Flood> button status, using it in the Program. Things you can add are: Load the On-Time for the light timer Program (2) from another variable so you can change the amount of automatic on-time depending upon the time or circumstance (home/away, etc.).

I found the best way to understand the Insteon and especially ISY environment is to play/experiment to see exactly what happens.