Range Extender vs. Dual-Band Module

[jgcharlotte]

I haven't really seen a definitive answer to this. . . .  is there an advantage to installing a range extender over a dual-band module?

I'm having IOLinc issues in the garage door control.  Does either/or help on the line side, which is where I assume I'm having problems because my wireless devices work fine and the IOLinc is not dual-band.

I'm thinking about replacing it with an on/off module and dry contact for control and open/close sensor for status.

[Brian H]

The Range Extender is a 2457D2 Lamplinc with the Dimmer components not installed.

It is Dual Band so it would resend both RF and power line Insteon messages. Back on the power lines and RF. Some users have used a Lamplinc or On/Off Module in place of a Range Extender. Only to have a Dimmer or On/Off output for maybe a future use.  How well they may work. Depends on the RF signals getting to the garage so they can send a power line signal to the I/OLinc.

The Range Extender should work the same as the 2457D2 LampLinc or 2635-222 On/Off Module. Can't say about compared to a wired in Dual Band module like a SwitchLinc or Outlet. One thing you can do is move it around easier to pick a spot to install it that works best.

[oberkc]

Perhaps it is possible that the omitted components in the range extender (compared to a lamplinc) could improve range?  Were this me, and I was certain that I had no need for additional lamplincs, I would probably opt for the range extender.  But....this is all conjecture on my part.

[larryllix]

My understanding is that the Range Extender does  not act as a full dual band device. The unit was selling before dual band was created and was a method to port the powerline signals via two bridges. Both receive and send powerline signals converting them into RF signals bit only talk to each other and not other Insteon RF devices.

IOW, they can extend devices on the powerline (via RF)  but not interact with other Insteon RF devices such as MSes or Leak detectors.

Stick with the common modules. They serve dual purposes by being load switching capable. Extenders cannot.

[jgcharlotte]

Ahh,  a diversity of opinions.  I do appreciate the feedback.  I have an on/off module in close proximity to the I/O Linc.

Given the fact that I have minimal problems elsewhere and the I/O Linc has a not so good reputation, i will probably just replace it with an on/off module controlled dry contact and change to wireless open/close sensor.  I've had good success with those and the batteries seem to last a long time.  I found this guy on Amazon and ordered a couple a few months back.  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B017743I7S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have another I/O Linc in another application controlling some LED lighting and it has worked flawlessly for several years now.  

Thanks all.

[oberkc]

9 hours ago, larryllix said:

IOW, they can extend devices on the powerline (via RF)  but not interact with other Insteon RF devices such as MSes or Leak detectors.

Really?!  That seems inconsistent with my experience and the description on the smarthome page:  

"Bridges RF-only Insteon devices with power line-only Insteon devices"

"This product is an Insteon Dual-Band device"

While your statement may be true with the original wireless 2442 "signalincs", I thought introduction of the range extender included the full dual band capability.  It has been long enough ago that I may not be remembering my own timeline, but I recall that I had motion sensors before I had any "dual-band" device and that it was only my range extenders that provided that radio bridge to the motion sensors.

[Brian H]

The Range Extender is a full feature Dual Band module.  It is the same as the 2457D2 LampLinc with the dimmer parts removed. It will do everything a full featured Dual Band plug in module will do. Except in this module. No output to control a lamp.

What maybe misleading is the line on the sales page saying it bridges an Insteon RF only module to the power lines. Well any Dual Band module can receive an Insteon RF signal and put it on the power lines. Most of the RF Insteon modules are in power saving mode. So a Range Extender can't control it but neither can any other Dual Band module until the RF only module is woken up.

I tested one in place of a 2443 Access Point. It worked the same as the Access Point. Same results in the four tap communications tests.

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, oberkc said:

Really?!  That seems inconsistent with my experience and the description on the smarthome page:  

"Bridges RF-only Insteon devices with power line-only Insteon devices"

"This product is an Insteon Dual-Band device"

While your statement may be true with the original wireless 2442 "signalincs", I thought introduction of the range extender included the full dual band capability.  It has been long enough ago that I may not be remembering my own timeline, but I recall that I had motion sensors before I had any "dual-band" device and that it was only my range extenders that provided that radio bridge to the motion sensors.

Without ever owning or using one, I probably am confused on the description or the devices. I did read there was a difference somewhere back a few years ago. Maybe the Phase Bridge device?

Thanks for the correction.

[jgcharlotte]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

I tested one in place of a 2443 Access Point. It worked the same as the Access Point. Same results in the four tap communications tests.

I was curious also about the difference, if any, between the range extender and access point.  When you search 'range extender' on their web site, it comes up with range extender.  When you search 'access point', it comes up with. . . . . .  range extender.  So I guess they just changed the name.

My problem is the line I guess.  All of my wireless devices seem to be working fine.  The mini-remote I keep in the car fro the garage door works from across the street.  I thought maybe it was the A/C, since it seems like it has started doing this since it got hotter and we are using the A/C.  Turned off both units (up and down), same problem.

[lilyoyo1]

Both products are exactly the same and does the same job. Due to the prevalence of dual band devices, they changed the name to better reflect it's role. 

[Brian H]

The 2443 Access Point was discontinued. The range extender is its replacement. The search for a Access Point is probably sent to the Range Extenders sales page. They where different designs. It was more than a name change.

The I/OLinc is power line only. It also has a small switching power supply that in theory could have issues. Like the 2413S PLM power supplies. Is it fairly new?

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

The 2443 Access Point was discontinued. The range extender is its replacement. The search for a Access Point is probably sent to the Range Extenders sales page. They where different designs. It was more than a name change.

The I/OLinc is power line only. It also has a small switching power supply that in theory could have issues. Like the 2413S PLM power supplies. Is it fairly new?

The change in name occured when they made the package smaller. Outside of that, functionally they are the same. During the redesign they talked about keeping the same name but decided on range extender for the reasons above. 

[jgcharlotte]

Thanks all.

I replaced the IOLinc with an on/off module and dry contact for control and an open/close sensor using the existing magnet/switch for sensing.  It did not miss a beat all afternoon.

 

[Brian H]

Glad you found a workable solution.

 

[jgcharlotte]

Well, from a purist standpoint, I should find the source of the line noise causing my problem, which I did try and couldn't find anything.  But the fact that my system is extremely reliable overall and the IOLinc does not have a good reputation for reliability, I just went with 2 devices  that I have found to be very reliable.  And it hasn't failed once since I changed it.

 

[arw01]

I had a lot of issues with false open's with the io linc and reversed reed switches for the garage.  Eventually I plugged in a access point and that did not really solve it.  Added some keypads that were dual band and that really did not solve it.

Then I moved the reed switch a touch and that did help.  But what REALLY helped, was a moved the arm on the garage door one more notch so it had a bit more leverage as it put it down on the floor and my false opens are 90% better.  Took me a while to figure it out, but I noticed that if I pushed down on the garage door a bit more my garage open light went out pretty reliably.  I would have expected moving the reed switch should have done it, but apparently it missed the sweet spot just enough.

[paulbates]

I guess I've been lucky. I put an iolinc on my garage door a number of years ago under homeseer. Its worked great. I did have to put an access point out there as the door motor is noisy, its a detached garage and far away, and the iolinc is single band.  That worked for me. Like arw01, i had physical door movement problems, but from the door wandering right to left to right. I had to nail a shim to the door frame to keep the door from wandering and the magnet getting too far from the sensor. No falses since then.

I did just order a replace iolinc for my attic fan dampers. The iolinc stopped responding to "latching", needed to power the damper open. I can't blame the iolinc though as the attic sees -20 to 130+... well out of its specs. 

[jgcharlotte]

I didn't have any reed switch issues, it was pretty reliable.  It is the one in the garage door kit, so it is designed for larger gaps.  When I took out the IOLinc I just connected the switch to an open/close switch, which I've found to be very reliable.

I also installed a Filter module on the opener, assuming the motor is noisy.

[Brian H]

Was the magnetic switch from the original kit setup? Had both a NO and NC set of contacts and did not require the Sensor Reverse setting to get proper operation. I understand it was  reliable.

The later kits. They cheapen up the contents with a different switch. That was more problems.

[jgcharlotte]

23 minutes ago, Brian H said:

Was the magnetic switch from the original kit setup? Had both a NO and NC set of contacts and did not require the Sensor Reverse setting to get proper operation. I understand it was  reliable.

The later kits. They cheapen up the contents with a different switch. That was more problems.

Yes, it was from the original kit which consisted of the switch/wire and IOLinc.  I just wired it to an open/close sensor.  It has been reliable.  I use it for status (open/close) and to turn on the garage ceiling lights when the door opens.

[Brian H]

The original kit had a Seco-Larm heavy duty switch designed for  garage door sensing. It was reliable from what I read. Now a standard magnetic switch designed for a security system.

https://www.smarthome.com/seco-larm-sm-226l-3-magnetic-garage-door-contact-switch.html

[jgcharlotte]

Ok, then that is NOT what I got.  It is pictured above and it is pretty much just an oversized security system window switch for wider gaps, etc.  Looks like the other one is designed to be mounted on the floor maybe?  This one has been reliable for me.