PLM forgetting all links \ ISY Restore PLM fixes \ bad PLM ??

[junkycosmos]

Hi All

Was hoping others could post here with experiences similar or not to this.     Three times now I have had my current PLM lose all links.    Symptom is that ISY does not see when units are controlled by switches on the wall but ISY can still control and can do a query to see actual status.   

Diagnostics --> Show PLM links table returns empty !

Restarting ISY does not help / power cycling PLM does not help

File --> Restore Modem (PLM) completely fixes the issue (in less than 2 minutes)

I have had this happen three times now over last 9 months.   I am inclined to think bad PLM except that doing the restore fixes this for months till it re-occurs at some random time.  ALSO when this does happen the PLM can still control all units perfectly, the only issue is that PLM does not listen to any traffic from any units.

PLM is 40.xx.xx   V9.E;   

 

Anyone else had this happen?

 

[paulbates]

30 minutes ago, junkycosmos said:

...  Symptom is that ISY does not see when units are controlled by switches on the wall but ISY can still control and can do a query to see actual status.   

Diagnostics --> Show PLM links table returns empty !

Restarting ISY does not help / power cycling PLM does not help

Fiie --> Restore Modem (PLM) completely fixes the issue (in less than 2 minutes)

.....

Hi

These items, especially the first one, are all classic symptoms of a dying plm. Its not always an instant event, it can be slow motion over time. Order a new PLM

Paul

[kclenden]

2 hours ago, junkycosmos said:

PLM is 40.xx.xx   V9.E;   

 

You didn't mention how old your PLM is, nor how old it was when this started happening.  If the answer is 2+ years, then that combined with your symptoms really point the finger at a dying PLM.

[Brian H]

There is a very long thread here on the PLM failures and if you are handy. How to repair it.

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/

 

[junkycosmos]

Thanks for the replies.   I forgot to include the version info in my original post

I installed it 4/28/16  , V2.2, date code 1611 (so it was born 11th week of 2016)

To be clear when these events (all three) have happened:  the PLM remains 100% functional for communication, can control, query devices fine.  LED is on bright green.  Only issue is that its MEMORY (aka link data base) has gone missing.

 

Brain H,

thx for the link that that capacitor repair thread.  All failures in that thread appear to be power supply related side.   I'm thinking the power supply side here is good?  I did a re-read of it and saw your post mentioning possibly serial chip failures, guess we might want to count this as eprom/nvam failure?

 

Also interesting to note my prior PLM was a v2.1 date code 1534 installed 10/05/15 (removed on 4/28/16) because it had the exact same failure as this one with the PLM memory forgetting all of the link records on 4/3/16.   We were doing some electrical circuit work early that month and had breakers tripped/on/off etc and figured an electric surge hit the PLM.     

 

 

 

Looks like I might want to hunt for a v2.4 now.  I did also see the comment by SH that v2.3 seems to now have some fixes ...and now we are up to seeing v2.4 from some orders (per that thread)

(from here) 

https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413s-serial-interface-dual-band.html#reviews

Smarthome reply: We have identified an issue that effects Insteon PowerLinc Modem (2413S - revisions prior to 2.3) where in some circumstances a component may fail if exposed to prolonged and excessive heat. In these failures the PowerLinc Modem will cease to function. To prevent such an issue from occurring we introduced a hardware change that began shipping in January 2017 (Rev 2.3).

 

 

 

 

 

[junkycosmos]

Also noticed SH is now carrying Smartenit 5010N PLM too although I understand from UDI this is untested with ISY

https://www.smarthome.com/smartenit-5010n-zbplm-zigbee-insteon-x10-interface.html

https://smartenit.com/product/zbplm/

[Brian H]

That model is the one with the added   ZigBee  protocol.

Not sure about the main board. Users sheet mentions a switch mode power supply but no Insteon RF mentioned. Maybe a custom manufactured base board for them.

[ELA]

EEproms have historically been known to get corrupted by fast transients or a high rate  of change of the voltage applied with respect to time.

If a power supply/capacitor becomes intermittently defective, power supply transients could become more prevalent.

[junkycosmos]

just had another occurance of this PLM losing all links.   Again ZERO communiction problems other than the entire PLM losing its DB.

doing another Restore PLM now

 

 

[mwester]

Sooo....  Did you replace the PLM yet?   It's showing all the standard, normal, expected failures for a PLM that's hit the expected two-year life span.

[junkycosmos]

did the restore PLM again just now and it appears to have worked but 2 things I will note

1. this time I have a flood (5 minutes of status bar scrolling too) with these messages in the log "MNG-LNK-RSP" ... that is new!

2. did another PLM link count after restoring .. this time its still running and counting aroung 1882 and still running.    Keep in mind my counts for prior restores were 600 then 900 something.   progressive growth but then given the issue/bug of plm count timing out who knows what was valid prior.

 

so .. if I didnt know better I would be inclined to think the ISY is corrupting the PLM,  really strange and of course not the ISY here as code is on 4.62

oh it finished .. 1888 links .. ?  Really .????

 

 

[Brian H]

Any Insteon activity while the Link Count is bring done. Can effect the results.

I have seen the Smarthome sales page. Saying the PLM now again has a >2000 Link Memory size. Though I have never seen a 2413S with that size. The later production 2412S did and the ISY {I believe it was a ISY99i} controller had issues if  you got maybe over about 800. In that case it was the slower memory speed in the 2412S.

[smokegrub]

The symptoms and timeline all point to a failing PLM. Replace it and save yourself unnecessary loss of time. I just replaced one. Same basic symptoms. Following a restore mine would work fine for a while then I would lose battery devices. 

[Techman]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

Any Insteon activity while the Link Count is bring done. Can effect the results.

I have seen the Smarthome sales page. Saying the PLM now again has a >2000 Link Memory size. Though I have never seen a 2413S with that size. The later production 2412S did and the ISY {I believe it was a ISY99i} controller had issues if  you got maybe over about 800. In that case it was the slower memory speed in the 2412S.

Brian, this is from the Smarthome site. Looks like they increased the memory,  added a piezo sounder, and a few other features.

New features:

• Built-in Dual-Band with RF function, acts like an Access Point for phase bridging and RF to/from power line
• 2,000+ links (compared to around 1000+ links previously)
• Added a beep sounder
• Red/Green LED light
• Supports faster reading and writing of the PLM's database by another controller
• Much lighter weight
• No pass-through outlet

[Brian H]

Yes I saw that. It was on the sales page when I ordered one during the 25% sale. Guess the sales page was updated before the older stock got sold. Mine did not have  the features listed on the sales page.  ?

[ELA]

I too was short changed  on that sale.....

and I was so looking forward to:  "no pass-through outlet" and "much lighter weight"?

 

I would have thought that adding 1000 links would add weight :)

[Teken]

38 minutes ago, ELA said:

I too was short changed  on that sale.....

and I was so looking forward to:  "no pass-through outlet" and "much lighter weight"?

 

I would have thought that adding 1000 links would add weight

LOL . . . 

I must be getting really old but didn't the existing units already have a beeper inside?? Also, the 2413S PLM is one of the lightest units they make so the fact its even *Lighter* does not instill confidence in me. Back in the day the shear weight was an indicator of relative quality as the frame, heat sinks, component count directly impacted the weight for various hardware. I have no clue what is happening inside of this so called new company but its clear to me imbeciles continue to manage and work there.

It's only been ten freaking years and they still can't produce a reliable (critical piece) of hardware to last beyond two years!!

More than three years have passed and not a word on the UDI Global PLM . . .

Ladies and gentleman there is little hope this is in the cards or will ever appear ~ sad.

 

[Brian H]

All the 2413S PLM's have no pass through outlets and have a beeper in them. Along with the lighter weight of the switching power supply over the old power transformer supply in the 2412S. Had a 1000 Link Database.

The older 2412S PLM originally was 417 Link Database then upgraded to a 2016 Link Database. The only way I know of they can update the 2413S to 2000 links is to change the  memory size to a 24FC128 from the 24FC64 in the 1000 link PLM I own.  My later 2016 Link 2412S have a 24LC128 in them.

The one I recently got {hardware v2.4} has a 24FC64SN in it. I expected to see a 24FC128 in it. I does have a newly designed serial port daughter board in it. An RS232 interface chip with an ESD rating and some added protection components on the RS232 signal lines.

Unfortunately I don't see the UDI PLM in the future. As I doubt Smartlabs is ever going to sell them the controller IC with firmware or let them program their own controllers.

[junkycosmos]

I updated the other PLM (massive thread) with pictures on v2.4 internals for a unit that arrived today.

I was going to ask about the 2000 link reference here too since the box for the v2.4 that showed up says "Supports up to 1,000" links

 

 

[junkycosmos]

I called SH just now and they noted V2.5 is the current PLM version and yet they might have old version of v2.4 which could ship out instead if we ordered today.

I also see on the SH sales info page the 2413s now supports 2,000+ links so maybe v2.5 has new chip ?

[Brian H]

Thanks for the confirmation on the latest being a V2.5

My last one during the 25% sale was in fact a V2.4.

 

[Teken]

5 hours ago, Brian H said:

Thanks for the confirmation on the latest being a V2.5

My last one during the 25% sale was in fact a V2.4.

 

I have purposely waited for the 2K link table 2413S PLM to arrive. Thank God, I didn't push the button during the 25% discount sale! I'm going to wait another six months to be doubly sure all the old stock is gone . . .

[MWareman]

They really should NOT change the specs like that without giving it a new product number....

[Brian H]

Well even under the old private management. Nothing changed in the model number when the 2412S went from 417 Links to >2000. Just a hardware revision number. That was not posted for reference.

It will be interesting if the whole Link Database can be accessed fast enough with the faster memory. The old 2412S slow memory caused errors if there was over about 800 links in it.

[MrTinker]

Just FYI, I recently had to order a new one on 17 Aug from Smarthome because my PLM died. I received a 2.4 revision.