Insteon and LED Christmas Garland...Strange Glow in Off State

[Tuckerdude]

Hello fine folks and Happy Holidays...

We just started getting our holiday decor setup (yes it's early), and I noticed an odd glowing on the bulbs of the garland when in the "Off" state (Insteon On/Off module). I've got multiple strands connected end to end and when I toggle the Insteon controller on, they come on just fine. But when I turn the controller off, all the bulbs have a faint glow to them...as if they have "trickle" power being fed to them. At first I thought maybe they had some kind of stored up charge that would eventually fade away, but that's not the case. If I physically unplug the power cable from the insteon module, they go completely dark.

Oddly enough, the plug-in controllers (old version and new) all exhibit this behavior, but the insteon In-wall outlet does not! That one works like a true on-off.

So...has anyone else seen this behavior?

If there's nothing to be done, do I run the risk of keeping those LED's in a low power state for hours on end? Will it damage them? We tend to run the lights in the house for several hours during the day, but then turn everything off at night. So between now and January, there will be hundreds of hours that these bulbs could be in this strange low-voltage state. I just don't know enough about led-bulbs and how they weather less than ideal voltage conditions.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Brian H]

Known condition. Are you using the older 2456S3 ApplianceLinc or the newer On/Off module?

The Local Control Sensing current. Keeps many low current devices glowing dimly. You could add a small 4 watt incandescent night light bulb to squash the current. Others have used different devices to squash the current.

If the module has a feature to turn off the sensing. The current is still there just ignored by the module. If you toggled the local loads switch from on to off and back on.

In wall switches don't have local control sensing.

Can't say if it would harm the LED lights. I don't think so and maybe others with actual experiences may chime in

[Tuckerdude]

Hi Brian...many thanks for the response!

I am using both old Appliance Linc's (model 2456S3), and new Plug-in On/Off modules (model 2635-222). They both exhibit the behavior.

So...are you suggesting a sort of "in-line" nightlite? I think I get it...maybe attach a small 3 outlet splitter to the plugin module, then the cord of the LED's into one and the nightlight into another. I will try it this morning.

Out of curiosity, do you know whether this low-current state can be damaging to LEDs?

Thanks again for the suggestion!

EDIT: Just tried it and it works. Thanks a bunch for the suggestion!

[Brian H]

The night light tip goes way back to the X10 days. They also had local control sensing issues with low current LED bulbs and some CFL bulbs triggering them back on.

Yes using a outlet power tap so you can plugin the LED lights and the night light bulb into the modules output. Was what I was thinking about. I have seen others using other electrical devices with varied success.

I am kind of surprised the 2635-222 modules caused the LED string to glow. Mine [not real recent date code 1714 revision 1.1S] don't have any sensing current on them that I could measure. Present modules maybe different. Maybe [no actual information] they added a snubber network across the relay contacts for better reliability.

I do know all the 2456S3 AplianceLincs have local control sensing currents and the revision 4.? ones also have a snubber network across the relay. That also conducts some small current through the load when off.

I don't know about the small glow all the time and effects. I doubt it would hurt them. Hopefully others here may have actual experience with the soft glow when off.

[larryllix]

My guess would be that the small trickle current through the LEDs would produce a very small amount of heat and keep the metal inside the light sockets dry, being a benefit.

Any of my LED strings have not lasted more than five years if they have removable bulbs. That includes repairs and replacing bulbs every year from about the second or third year. It's the wire connections and bare copper plated contacts that oxidise or rust though. Green LED bulbs are the worst in my experience for just burning out while stored over the summer???

I have about 500 feet of LED strings that have permanent bulbs plastic welded into place, and about 200 feet of them are strung from small tree to tree, self supporting, in a runway style lighting, with winds and driving snow that tear small tress out of the ground on this mountain. None have had a bulb or connection fail in about 5-6 years of usage.

The small lighting effect cannot be seen during the day but the slight glow at nights can be annoying for some that are OCD about Remembrance Day violations by Christmas lighting. 

[Tuckerdude]

Hi Larryllix,

Thanks for the feedback and thoughts on this one. I've only recently started migrating to LEDS...I've been a hold-out for a long time as I did not like the look of most LED bulbs (color temp, brightness, flickering), but most of those problems are solved these days.

So these are brand new strings and in this case, indoor lights. And yeah...OCD for sure as it's more about it not working as expected than anything else.

However, I must update/correct my previous post as I did another model compare (old version versus new Inteon plug-in module). And indeed...it's the older models than exhibit the problem. The new version (model 2635-222) seems to work just fine and the LED's do not exhibit the glow.

So for anyone with this issue, please note that the new models will handle the LED's just fine!

 

[Brian H]

Thank you for the update. Glad you got it working.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, Tuckerdude said:

Hi Larryllix,

Thanks for the feedback and thoughts on this one. I've only recently started migrating to LEDS...I've been a hold-out for a long time as I did not like the look of most LED bulbs (color temp, brightness, flickering), but most of those problems are solved these days.

So these are brand new strings and in this case, indoor lights. And yeah...OCD for sure as it's more about it not working as expected than anything else.

However, I must update/correct my previous post as I did another model compare (old version versus new Inteon plug-in module). And indeed...it's the older models than exhibit the problem. The new version (model 2635-222) seems to work just fine and the LED's do not exhibit the glow.

So for anyone with this issue, please note that the new models will handle the LED's just fine!

 

Yeah, I went cheap this year and dug out two  old X10 appliance plug-ins for outdoor usage, with a lot of white electrical tape enclosures.  I had to unplug them until after 11/11 due to a very pronounced glow of red and green bulbs around my house where my OCD neighbour could see them before the 11/11 ceremonies. The X10 modules were even worse. 

The third string strung between trees by the road got connected to an Insteon Outdoor module and didn't glow at all this year. The OCD neighbour does the same against the other side of the road. In the rural with no street lights, no moon, and both of us lining either side of the road into the mini-subdivision you feel like you are landing a plane coming home. It look really cool.

Difference is: He has no automation (due to being an electrician  ) and has to turn them on and off  manually, every night.
Even worse my dad always wanted me to be an electrician. He would always yell at me, "Go to the shed, boy,  and get me a switch!"