JacktheRipper Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 The User Manual for the Insteon Motion Sensor II (2844-222) assumes you have an Insteon Hub, but I haven’t found an equivalent manual for using the sensor with an ISY. If someone has such a manual, let me know. In the meantime, I’ve played with the sensor mounted in my garage to turn the garage lights on when motion is detected. And while I got it working, it was a confusing process of pressing the Set button multiple times, figuring out what pressing the Motion button does, and trying to decipher the many different red and green blink patterns along the way. And then there is the configuration screen below, assuming you’re running at least v 5.0.14 of the Admin Console (recommended, my process described here ). What does it all mean, and do I have it configured correctly? Specifically, my questions are (1) Starting from a factory reset, what are the steps to link the sensor to the ISY. I’ve done this successfully, but having a written process would be good, with an explanation of all those led blinking patterns I saw. (2) There is an “Off Button Timeout” value in the “Misc” section, and a “Timeout” value in the “Motion” section. What do they do? Note that I’ve configured to send On commands only--Off commands are handled with a specific program I wrote with additional logic. (3) Others have reported that they haven’t been able to stop the led blinking when motion is detected, no matter what they do in the Config Screen. I haven’t verified this. (4) What are “Nodes”? I have one, apparently. Mentioned a couple times in the Config Screen below, but I don’t understand their utility. (5) In another thread here , we discussed that the temp and luminance sensors are used for internal purposes only, and the values reported in the ISY device screen are not really updated at all. I wonder if Battery Level is really updated. In that thread, kclenden provided a way to get valid updates, but I haven’t implemented it because I don’t need that data. (6) What do the items in the “Light” section do? And beyond the Config Screen, there are the “Calibrate Temperature” and “Beep” buttons in the ISY device screen, but if you press them, the sensor must be in Set Up mode. And speaking of the Set Up Mold, I think you enter it by pressing the Set button once, and exit by pressing the Set button twice. Did I get that right? 1
DaveStLou Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 I have had this device for several months and much of remains a mystery to me as well, so I would appreciate an ISY-oriented manual too. Anyone answering @JacktheRipper's post, please include the differences between battery powered and plugged in.
JacktheRipper Posted March 9, 2019 Author Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) So Dave, I have made a little progress in understanding some of the items I mentioned above: (1) To do a factory reset, remove the battery, push down and hold the Set button, and reinsert the battery, continuing to hold the Set button down for ten seconds until you see the leds blinking differently. (edit: to add the sensor to the ISY, you must use the menu item Link Management>>Link a Sensor>>Motion Sensor II. The "Start Linking" option does not work with this wireless device, or any other perhaps.) (2) The Timeout value in the Motion section is used only when you have configured the sensor to Report: ON/OFF. When the sensor detects motion it sends an ON command immediately. If the sensor detects no motion for "Timeout" seconds, it sends an OFF command. I still don't know what the "Off Button Timeout" value in the Misc section does. (4) Apparently "Nodes" are the entries you see in ISY devices screen. There are three nodes for the MS II: Motion, Tamper and Enabled. I added the Motion node to my lighting scene as a Controller/Responder configured to Report: ON/OFF. Works as I have described in Item (2) above. Any change you make to the Config Screen above, or pushing the "Calibrate Temperature" or "Beep" or Query buttons on the Motion node screen requires you to put the MS II in linking mode. To do that, push and hold the Set button for five seconds (beeps and starts green blinking on two second intervals). You may have to right click the node and select "Write updates to Device" to actually get changes installed in the sensor. Then, to go back to operational status, push the set button once (MS double blinks every 2 seconds), then push the Set button again (no blinking unless motion is detected). You may want to review another thread I started here: https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/25915-configuring-a-wireless-sensor-via-portal-access/?tab=comments#comment-259246 kclenden helped me understand a lot of this. Edited March 10, 2019 by JacktheRipper Additional steps 2 1
JacktheRipper Posted March 11, 2019 Author Posted March 11, 2019 I've learned a few more things: (1) The MS II Tamper Node status is normally OFF or blank if the battery cover is in place. If the battery case is removed, the Tamper status turns to ON, and the MS II sensor gives one long beep in protest. Replacing the cover turns the Tamper Node status to OFF with no beep. (2) I have the MS II in a scene with an Insteon wall switch for garage lights. Both the wall switch and the MS II are designated as Controller/Responders. However, if the wall switch is turned ON, but the sensor has not detected motion, the MS II does not go to ON status, even though it's in the scene just turned ON by the switch. (3) Similarly, if the wall switch is turned OFF, the scene turns off, but the MS II does not change status (remains ON if it was ON, and OFF if it was OFF). In particular, if it was ON it will not turn the lights back on if motion is detected after the lights were turned off by the wall switch. It must time out and send its OFF command before resetting to detect motion and turns lights on. This was driving me nuts until I figured out what was going on by looking at the Tools>>Diagnostics>>Event Viewer. 1
DaveStLou Posted March 24, 2019 Posted March 24, 2019 There's so much about this detector that is mysterious. I've switched mine to line power instead of battery. When I attempt to calibrate the temperature. I set the temperature, press calibrate and then the temperature changes to some new, apparently random value. Haven't been able to get it to calibrate to the temperature I've set.
lilyoyo1 Posted March 24, 2019 Posted March 24, 2019 On 3/11/2019 at 10:21 AM, JacktheRipper said: I've learned a few more things: (1) The MS II Tamper Node status is normally OFF or blank if the battery cover is in place. If the battery case is removed, the Tamper status turns to ON, and the MS II sensor gives one long beep in protest. Replacing the cover turns the Tamper Node status to OFF with no beep. (2) I have the MS II in a scene with an Insteon wall switch for garage lights. Both the wall switch and the MS II are designated as Controller/Responders. However, if the wall switch is turned ON, but the sensor has not detected motion, the MS II does not go to ON status, even though it's in the scene just turned ON by the switch. (3) Similarly, if the wall switch is turned OFF, the scene turns off, but the MS II does not change status (remains ON if it was ON, and OFF if it was OFF). In particular, if it was ON it will not turn the lights back on if motion is detected after the lights were turned off by the wall switch. It must time out and send its OFF command before resetting to detect motion and turns lights on. This was driving me nuts until I figured out what was going on by looking at the Tools>>Diagnostics>>Event Viewer. Motion sensors (as all sensors) are controllers only. They cannot be responders. Doing so would make their behavior erratic causing more issues than you would probably want. By design, motion sensors are designed for room/area coverage. Walk in the light goes on. Walk out it turns off. In a room or area without good coverage the motion sensor can be a headache but it's easy to work around that vs the opposite. For example, you manually turn on a light switch. Are you saying you want the light on until manually turned off or do you want the sensor to turn it off? If their isn't sufficient or proper coverage, you'll either constantly need to purposely walk in the area of the sensor or end up in the dark because it doesn't know you're around. The same with turning a light off. If you manually turn off a light and the sensor happens to pick you up, should it turn the light back on or leave it off. What happens if someone walks in behind you? Since you manually turned it off, does it turn the lights on or leave them off? I'm theory it would be nice but in practice it's a bigger pain. For my sensors I use programs. If I physically hit the light switch, it will disable my programs so the motion sensor doesn't kick in. Physically turning off the switch will automatically re-enable them. There's also an auto-enaboe just in case I forget to turn off the light
JacktheRipper Posted March 25, 2019 Author Posted March 25, 2019 Lily... Quote Motion sensors (as all sensors) are controllers only. They cannot be responders. Doing so would make their behavior erratic causing more issues than you would probably want. Yeah, I finally figured that out. As a newbie, I was confused by the Admin Console listing the MS II as a "Controller/Responder" for my garage scene. Perhaps that misrepresentation ought to be corrected, don't you think? Relative to what I want, I did the following: I included the MS II in the Insteon Scene with the garage light switch that is a true controller/responder for the scene. I set the MS II to issue on commands only. I wrote a timer program, normally disabled, that turns the lights off after a time-out, set at 10 minutes. If the light switch or the MS II turns on the scene, the timer program is enabled and starts the timer. If the MS II detects subsequent motion, it triggers a second program that (1) sends an on command for the scene, (2) disables the timer program, (3) waits 5 seconds, then (4) re-enables the timer program and runs it. This refreshes the timer program to always time out 10 minutes after the last detected motion. When the timer program reaches the time-out, it turns the scene off, then disables itself. This works fine for all use-cases, but is rather complicated. I was just looking for a simpler implementation that could have been possible if the MS II could be configured to always issues on commands if it detected motion, whether or not it thought the lights were already on. I guess it can't, so I'll stick with my solution. Thanks...Jack
lilyoyo1 Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 I think that box is simply a generic dialogue box for devices in general not necessarily specifically what a can do. It's akin to other software/apps that provide information but greyed out boxes means you can't select something. There's no right or wrong way to call it. Changing it may help some people while hurting others. As you learn about devices and how they work, alot that seems confusing will seem much more obvious in time.
Hurting2Ride Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 While the Insteon manual for the 222 does refer to the Insteon hub, it also refers to issues native to the device itself. For example, it explains exactly what the red & green blinking lights mean and how to put the device in & out of linking mode. It's worth looking through.
JacktheRipper Posted March 25, 2019 Author Posted March 25, 2019 I just verified that when a Motion Sensor I is added to a scene, the only option that is offered is for it to be a Controller. The MS II came up as a Controller/Responder as the default, as I remember it. That led to my confusion. I'm aware that the only way to make the MS II "respond" to anything sent to it is to put it in linking mode (although mwester suggested (here) that a program could be written to sneak in commands immediately after a motion detected event happened. I haven't tried to do this. Might be a way to do a Query and get that temperature updated.). The solution I outlined above using programs works both with and without the MS II being in the scene to be controlled. I leave it in because the light turns on immediately, whereas when the program issues the on command, there is a slight delay. So, relative to my goal stated at the top of this thread, of having a coherent user manual/tutorial for the 2244-222, I've learned a few things from the MS I user manual (traditional Insteon manual with good explanations), the MS II user manual (new style written for the hub and light on details), and this and other Forum threads I've participated in. Thanks to all of you for helping me learn about this.
fasttimes Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 This sensor looks like it does a lot of stuff. Unfortunately I can’t figure out how to do something really simple. I just want the sensor to report ON after motion is detected and report OFF after no more motion is detected for 300 seconds. In in other words the sensor reports ON and stays on while any motion occurs, and there must be 300 seconds of no motion for it to turn off. Does anyone know how to make this happen? Is a higher number for sensitivity more or less sensitive?
lgilsenberg Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 @JacktheRipper. I'm intrigued by your motion sensor solution. Could you share the programs you described? "I wrote a timer program, normally disabled, that turns the lights off after a time-out, set at 10 minutes. If the light switch or the MS II turns on the scene, the timer program is enabled and starts the timer. If the MS II detects subsequent motion, it triggers a second program that (1) sends an on command for the scene, (2) disables the timer program, (3) waits 5 seconds, then (4) re-enables the timer program and runs it. This refreshes the timer program to always time out 10 minutes after the last detected motion. When the timer program reaches the time-out, it turns the scene off, then disables itself."
JacktheRipper Posted June 17, 2019 Author Posted June 17, 2019 Be glad to. In my garage I have an Insteon wall switch near the door into the house, a wireless contact sensor on my garage door and a MS II. I have a scene (Gr Lights) that has the wall switch as a controller/responder, and the MS II that is a controller (although listed as a controller/responder, as noted above). The MS II is configured to turn the lights on, but not off (done in its config settings). Note that the contact sensor is not in the scene, because I don’t want the lights to be turned off when the door closes. I have a program “Gr Lights Timed Off” that is normally disabled when the lights are off, but is enabled by the following program below when any on command is received. It has the following code: Gr Lts Timed Off - [ID 000D][Parent 0010][Not Enabled] If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Wait 20 minutes Set 'Gr Lights Scene' Off Disable Program 'Gr Lts Timed Off' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I have a second program that turns the lights on and enables the above program, with the following code: Gr Lights On Command - [ID 000B][Parent 0010] If 'Garage Light Switch' is switched On Or 'Gr. Door Sensor-Opened' is switched On Or 'Gr MS II.Motion' is switched On Then Set 'Gr Lights Scene' On Disable Program 'Gr Lts Timed Off' Wait 5 seconds Enable Program 'Gr Lts Timed Off' Run Program 'Gr Lts Timed Off' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') You have to noodle this a bit, but the lights only turn off if either the wall light switch is turned off (it’s in the scene), or if the timer program times out. The timer program is enabled, or re-enabled, for every ON command issued, including possibly multiple ON commands from the MS II if I’m in the garage for an extended period (it’s my woodshop). So while I’m in the shop, the lights never turn off. One final detail: If the MS II senses motion, but it thinks it's already on, it does not issue an on command, so set the timer to a very short value to make it work consistently.
rebirth24 Posted July 31, 2019 Posted July 31, 2019 On 6/7/2019 at 4:03 PM, fasttimes said: This sensor looks like it does a lot of stuff. Unfortunately I can’t figure out how to do something really simple. I just want the sensor to report ON after motion is detected and report OFF after no more motion is detected for 300 seconds. In in other words the sensor reports ON and stays on while any motion occurs, and there must be 300 seconds of no motion for it to turn off. Does anyone know how to make this happen? Is a higher number for sensitivity more or less sensitive? It feels like 0 is MORE/MOST sensitive. Can anyone confirm?
JacktheRipper Posted July 31, 2019 Author Posted July 31, 2019 Quote It feels like 0 is MORE/MOST sensitive. Can anyone confirm? I have my MS II set to 255, and it seems to work fine. I would think a higher sensitivity setting would mean it's more sensitive. Don't know what value a motion detector with zero sensitivity would have.
BoomerangThree Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) Hi All, (JacktheRipper) I have finally upgraded to 5.0.16, all seems fine, except my Motion Sensor II. 1. I have configured the options to JacktheRipper's settings above after deleting the MS II from ISY and reading it. The only thing I have not done is actually delete the program and recreate it. In addition, in the status screen of the 4A.78.D4.1 Motion I don't get a "status". I assume that this is just a ISY / MS II issue / bug. 2. I have a simple program to begin with that simply checks the "4A.78.D4.1 Motion is switched On" and I turn on a Insteon Bulb On. This worked before the upgrade. 3. The above doesn't work now. 4. Any suggestions? ---------------------------------------------------- UPDATED - I'll keep this entry, plus this update. 5. I pushed the "Motion" button on the MS II and bingo, all started working. I assumed that setting the 4A.78.D4.13 Motion Enabled to 100% set the motion detection on, but I guess not. Thanks Edited October 14, 2019 by BoomerangThree
Brian H Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 The MSII when using the battery. Go into a power saving mode. You have to wake them up with its Set Button before you can access it. With the optional wall power supply it should stay awake.
JacktheRipper Posted October 14, 2019 Author Posted October 14, 2019 Quote I have finally upgraded to 5.0.16, all seems fine, except my Motion Sensor II Boomerang... I just installed 5.0.16, and my MS I here in my home works fine. My MS II is on a remote ISY in my son's home in another state, and I have 5.0.14A running there. His MS II works fine with that software version. I won't be upgrading his ISY to 5.0.16 until Thanksgiving, when I'll be there. The only thing I can suggest is to uninstall the MS II from your ISY, then reinstall it. If that doesn't work, there may be a way to do a factory reset on it. I haven't researched that....
BoomerangThree Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, JacktheRipper said: Boomerang... I just installed 5.0.16, and my MS I here in my home works fine. My MS II is on a remote ISY in my son's home in another state, and I have 5.0.14A running there. His MS II works fine with that software version. I won't be upgrading his ISY to 5.0.16 until Thanksgiving, when I'll be there. The only thing I can suggest is to uninstall the MS II from your ISY, then reinstall it. If that doesn't work, there may be a way to do a factory reset on it. I haven't researched that.... Brian H and JacktheRipper, I have both the MS II on 5.0.16 working now. 1st it was not knowing to push the "Motion" button to bring it out of sleep mode (thanks Brian H). Next was just getting back to basic ISY programming, that I have to have both an "On" and "Off" trigger program in ISY. The "On&Off" option in the MS II doesn't trigger just the "On" program so I tested it with separate On and Off programs and that worked. I went back to the timer approach (thanks JacktheRipper) for triggering and waiting for the motion sensor and now I'm enhancing that basic approach. I also have a "Battery Level" program to test out since all of this testing has drained my battery on the MS II. ------------------------------------------------ UPDATED 1. Just wanted to add. I have both MS I and II and just verified that my MS I triggers a single program for both On and Off where the MS II doesn't. Perhaps I don't have an option set correctly, but it appears that I do so I'll assume at this time it's a ISY bug. 2. Anyone else experienced this? Thanks all. Edited October 14, 2019 by BoomerangThree
jmwhite5 Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 I tried adjusting the motion sensitivity from 0 to 240 and it doesn't seem to make a difference. It senses motion from 30' away in all directions. I have it setup in a stairwell. I was hoping to restrict the motion detection to when someone is close or in the stairwell. Not clear across the room. Something doesn't seem quite right.
Brian H Posted December 9, 2019 Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, jmwhite5 said: I tried adjusting the motion sensitivity from 0 to 240 and it doesn't seem to make a difference. It senses motion from 30' away in all directions. I have it setup in a stairwell. I was hoping to restrict the motion detection to when someone is close or in the stairwell. Not clear across the room. Something doesn't seem quite right. I got one in the Black Friday sale. Is yours one of the 2844-222 V2 models they are now selling? It has a small two pin jumper below the USB Connector. Manual I just got says. If you put the jumper on. It sets it to Reduced Range. Specifications page. Range 30' with jumper Off. 20' Jumper On. I don't have any experience with the sensitivity setting yet but if you have the jumper you could start with a shorted range, Mine is a R3.3 1019. Reported Firmware in the Administrative Console v.47 Edited December 9, 2019 by Brian H Add information
jmwhite5 Posted December 10, 2019 Posted December 10, 2019 16 hours ago, Brian H said: I got one in the Black Friday sale. Is yours one of the 2844-222 V2 models they are now selling? It has a small two pin jumper below the USB Connector. Manual I just got says. If you put the jumper on. It sets it to Reduced Range. Specifications page. Range 30' with jumper Off. 20' Jumper On. I don't have any experience with the sensitivity setting yet but if you have the jumper you could start with a shorted range, Mine is a R3.3 1019. Reported Firmware in the Administrative Console v.47 I bought mine on Amazon. It doesn't say v2. Also, it has the jumper pins, but they didn't include the actual jumper. In any case, I've since figured out a few things: 1) don't rely on the tape they provide to stick it to a corner. Mine fell twice (about 8') onto a hardwood floor. Still working, but the battery seems a little loose now. 2) After using the screw mounted bracket, I was able to angle it better, so now, it only turns on when I'm in the stairwell. So problem solved.
Brian H Posted December 10, 2019 Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) Maybe the factory didn't put the jumper on one of the two pins for storage if not enabled. If you didn't download the latest manual. It is now on the sales page. It is 8.15.19 revision. Mine also does not say V2. Only place I saw it was on the file name of the latest manual I downloaded. No where on the sensor or box did it say V2. I have seen no indication of when the sensor itself was changed. The jumper was not mentioned in the earlier manual or shown in the internal photos in the FCC Database. It did look like there was two unused solder pads where the jumper is now in the photo. Edited December 10, 2019 by Brian H Add information
idkayaker Posted December 14, 2019 Posted December 14, 2019 Hay guy's my first post on this thread but I've been on a couple of others regarding the 2844. Seems there are quite a few of us that have struggled with the 2844 and lack of goo documentation. I was wondering if anyone would like to collaborate on a real manual for this thing? topics would be configuring it in the ISY. Information about each of the parameters. And the quarks of the unit. like the difference between battery operation and USB. maybe a few program examples to help the uninitiated more easily use this thing in an ISY.
idkayaker Posted December 15, 2019 Posted December 15, 2019 After much hacking at this thing to impractically determine its behavior I came up with a configuration and program so this thing works the way it should out of the box. I have to say this experience has soured me on Insteon. I've had it in the garage now for almost 24hrs and it seems to be working. Once I went out there and i almost had to hope in front of the sensor before it turned on but it is cool in the garage. Its about 40 deg and the low limit of operation is 32 deg. I bought this new sensor because I felt the previous 2420 sensor Ive had for several years lost performance as it got colder and the off commands didn't always make it to the light switch. Does anyone have similar experience whit the 2844 or older 2420? The new one seems to be turning off the lights more reliably and the lights are staying on while i move about. And its not just about he sensor. Previously I had the sensor control the lights, now the ISY is doing it. From an engineering stand point I've added another point of failure Just to do what the sensor should do and that is reset the countdown timer internally when new motion is sensed. TO improve reliability of turning off the lights I added a 2nd off command in the program to insure that they go off. I'm also going to power the unit from USB currently on battery and I like the performance. The one detail that was nice to see is that they acknowledge the sensor temp reading performs differently on battery and USB. This along with improved communication leads me to think sensor performance and OFF command transmittal's will be more reliable on USB power. I'm also contemplating a second program to insure that the lights are off late at night. It used to be that the previous sensor did not always turn off the lights and they'd be on all night. just a simple thing to run at night. If the lights are on and the motion off for lets say 5 to 10 min the turn off the lights.
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