In Floor heating thermostat options for the ISY 994i

[EddieRock]

I'm installing a simple in floor heat mat and thermostat in our bathroom. I'd like to get a tstat that I can control with my ISY. I've got 4 Insteon tstats for our boiler to heat our house and would like to know what I can use for in floor heating. The systems I've been looking at have a temp probe that gets installed with the mat and I believe that connects to the tstat so we can simply "Warm" the floor. We're not looking to heat the room. just warm the floor.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've seen Suntouch, Aube, OK Microline and a few other brands I didn't recognize. Does ISY talk to any of these or a Honeywell?

Gotta buy one in the next few days... 

Thanks in advance

[simplextech]

@EddieRock, I just received the development unit of the NuHeat Signature thermostat.  This is a wifi thermostat made for under floor heating and for baseboard heating.  I have plans on developing a Polyglot NodeServer for this.  I just got the unit and I haven't even wired it yet so I have no time frame other than "by the fall" (North American fall).  I am working with NuHeat on a plugin for HomeSeer with plans to bring it to ISY as well.  So stay tuned.

[larryllix]

I'm installing a simple in floor heat mat and thermostat in our bathroom. I'd like to get a tstat that I can control with my ISY. I've got 4 Insteon tstats for our boiler to heat our house and would like to know what I can use for in floor heating. The systems I've been looking at have a temp probe that gets installed with the mat and I believe that connects to the tstat so we can simply "Warm" the floor. We're not looking to heat the room. just warm the floor.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've seen Suntouch, Aube, OK Microline and a few other brands I didn't recognize. Does ISY talk to any of these or a Honeywell?
Gotta buy one in the next few days... 
Thanks in advance

The mats will be 120 or 240vac usually. Smart thermostats that can control high voltage are rare but I think there are a few.

I would get the simple stat made for the job and put an Insteon wire in module ahead of it. Then you have full control and the safety the designed for it stat provides so you don't end up charcialing your wood ply underneath.

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[EddieRock]

20 hours ago, simplextech said:

@EddieRock, I just received the development unit of the NuHeat Signature thermostat.  This is a wifi thermostat made for under floor heating and for baseboard heating.  I have plans on developing a Polyglot NodeServer for this.  I just got the unit and I haven't even wired it yet so I have no time frame other than "by the fall" (North American fall).  I am working with NuHeat on a plugin for HomeSeer with plans to bring it to ISY as well.  So stay tuned.

Thank you! Do you have a model number for the thermostat? I'd like to get the right one out of the gate instead of a $200 upgrade later  I could be Beta #1 for you guys 

[simplextech]

51 minutes ago, EddieRock said:

Thank you! Do you have a model number for the thermostat? I'd like to get the right one out of the gate instead of a $200 upgrade later  I could be Beta #1 for you guys 

There's only one Signature model.  I sent you a PM as well.  But when you're ready to buy let me know as I'm a Nuheat partner.

[simplextech]

This has been idle for a while but i wanted to drop the note it is not forgotten.  Things have been very hectic and busy unfortunately.

[david-4]

 I'm very interested in this too. Please send me info about the thermostat and your Polyglot NodeServer for it.

My WarmTiles thermostat is malfunctioning and I need to replace it very soon - even if the interconnectablity is not finished, I'd at least like to purchase the correct thermostat now.

Thanks!

[simplextech]

I have plans for a nodeserver for the NuHeat Signature thermostat.  Amazon link is below.  There's only one model of the Signature series.  This is a cloud based API so it will run in Polyglot Cloud.  The thermostat supports floor heating systems and baseboard heating

https://www.amazon.com/Nuheat-SIGNATURE-Programmable-Dual-Voltage-Touchscreen/dp/B00KHA6MEG/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=nuheat+signature&qid=1573166997&sr=8-2

That link is the first one to load from Amazon and the seller is not endorsed or related to anything I do however they have better pricing than even I can provide and if you have Prime it's free shipping.

 

[david-4]

Thanks.

You mentioned that the thermostat is cloud based. Does this mean that the thermostat requires an internet connection to operate. And is this how the manufacture's interface is designed? Will this be true with your interface also?

My goal is to keep as much control on my side of the firewall as possible. I know Alexa and google require internet access for voice control buy they talk to my ISY and my ISY controls my devices. I don't want to depend on a cloud based proceed in some far-off location to operate my smart devices. I want it all to work even when my internet connection goes down. I don't want any apps on my phone or to access it remotely.

Can this thermostat be controlled directly from my controller on my side of my router? And will your app allow the same if I have am running polyglot locally?

Again, thanks for your help

[simplextech]

9 hours ago, david-4 said:

Does this mean that the thermostat requires an internet connection to operate. And is this how the manufacture's interface is designed? Will this be true with your interface also?

Control of the thermostat is cloud based.  Nuheat (the vendor) provides a internet accessible API to control the thermostat.  This is how it can be integrated with other systems.  The thermostat itself is fully functional, controllable AND programmable locally.  You can create/program schedules on the thermostat just like any normal programmable thermostat and those schedules will run regardless of internet access.  The Thermostat is Wifi connected providing the options to use the mobile apps or web interface or integration with other systems but it is NOT required.

9 hours ago, david-4 said:

Can this thermostat be controlled directly from my controller on my side of my router? And will your app allow the same if I have am running polyglot locally?

All remote control of the thermostat is done via their API which is through the internet.  Manual control is still available.  Because their API is only available via the internet and requires an OAuth2 setup this nodeserver will only be available in the Polyglot Cloud system and will not (currently) work in a local Polyglot install.

[david-4]

That's too bad. That rules it out for me.

I assume this mean that even using a packet sniffer to determine the commands to the thermostat won't work because the thermostat is locked down by the manufacture?

I want to be able to run routines internally to control the thermostat and to integrate/coordinate its functions with my other home heating controls.

Why do these manufactures insist on access to our homes after we purchase their products?

[larryllix]

4 minutes ago, david-4 said:

That's too bad. That rules it out for me.

I assume this mean that even using a packet sniffer to determine the commands to the thermostat won't work because the thermostat is locked down by the manufacture?

I want to be able to run routines internally to control the thermostat and to integrate/coordinate its functions with my other home heating controls.

Why do these manufactures insist on access to our homes after we purchase their products?

Many different types of security.

[simplextech]

2 hours ago, david-4 said:

That's too bad. That rules it out for me.

I assume this mean that even using a packet sniffer to determine the commands to the thermostat won't work because the thermostat is locked down by the manufacture?

I want to be able to run routines internally to control the thermostat and to integrate/coordinate its functions with my other home heating controls.

Why do these manufactures insist on access to our homes after we purchase their products?

I fully understand the view.  The only other "smart" floor thermostat I'm aware of is from Sinope.  The problem there is that it's Zigbee and won't work with the ISY.  Are you specifically looking for a "floor" thermostat or a line-voltage thermostat for baseboard heating?  I have several of the StelPro Ki Z-Wave thermostat's for my baseboard heating and they work great and are 100% local being Z-wave.

[Ryan S]

As a non-programmer I heavily rely on people like yourself who take on these projects.  I just want to say thank you for putting in the time and effort to making these programs available on the Polyglot Cloud. I can't wait to be able to integrate my NuHeat Signature controller with the rest of my ISY programs!  Thanks again!

[david-4]

On 11/8/2019 at 2:51 PM, simplextech said:

I fully understand the view.  The only other "smart" floor thermostat I'm aware of is from Sinope.  The problem there is that it's Zigbee and won't work with the ISY.  Are you specifically looking for a "floor" thermostat or a line-voltage thermostat for baseboard heating?  I have several of the StelPro Ki Z-Wave thermostat's for my baseboard heating and they work great and are 100% local being Z-wave.

I'm looking for a smart thermostat for electric radiant floor heat. Preferably I'd like it to be ip-addressable from within my network, but another work around could be z-wave or zigbee as long as it's not a porprietary protocol that requires a manufacture's specific hub that requires cloud processing for regular functioning.

[david-4]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:22 AM, Ryan S said:

As a non-programmer I heavily rely on people like yourself who take on these projects.  I just want to say thank you for putting in the time and effort to making these programs available on the Polyglot Cloud. I can't wait to be able to integrate my NuHeat Signature controller with the rest of my ISY programs!  Thanks again!

Very good point! I very much appreciate all the time and effort that goes into the development of these programs that all of you make available - And to the time those of you with more experience contribute to help the rest of us figure out what we are doing.

Even if the apps and solutions may not be directly applicable to my requirements I still appreciate the time taken to explain and educate us.

I may forget to say so but Thank you!

Thank you Simplextech

[david-4]

Network Thermostat (www.networkthermostat.com) has a line of WiFi and Ethernet connected thermostats the do not require a cloud. They seem to have an extensive line up of products.

I don't know much else about them. Is there a way to make there thermostats work?

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, david-4 said:

Network Thermostat (www.networkthermostat.com) has a line of WiFi and Ethernet connected thermostats the do not require a cloud. They seem to have an extensive line up of products.

I don't know much else about them. Is there a way to make there thermostats work?

I've looked at those and none of them work with line-voltage applications (baseboard, floor heating).  They are all designed around 24v systems and they are actually quite expensive.  I have however put in a call to them to inquire if they do have any other options available.

[simplextech]

I did get a call back from NetworkThermostat and they do not provide any line-voltage controlled thermostat's.

[david-4]

I just looked at StelPro site. Will any of there smart thermostats work?

It would be great if I could find a system that would integrate all my thermostat needs. I have two Heat pumps (one for each floor) each with its own thermostat and electric radiant floor heat in the bathroom.

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, david-4 said:

I just looked at StelPro site. Will any of there smart thermostats work?

It would be great if I could find a system that would integrate all my thermostat needs. I have two Heat pumps (one for each floor) each with its own thermostat and electric radiant floor heat in the bathroom.

As far as I know the StelPro Ki Z-Wave is baseboard only as it does not have the floor temp sensor probe connection.  I don't know about their Maestro line.

[david-4]

It looks like the original thermostat I had from WarmTiles electric radiant heat was manufactured by Danfoss. Danfoss recently released a WiFi capable thermostat for floor heat  - the  LX205T WIFI Touch Thermostat -  https://www.danfoss.com/en-us/search/?query=AI210586469779. It uses an app so I assume through the cloud. I still wonder if there is a way to send my own IP commands to it through WiFi from ISY with out relying on the manufacture's server over the internet.

I'm thinking of buying one just to see but I'm not sure I have the exportise to really test it

[simplextech]

Herein lies the problem... who is the OEM for these thermostat's.  The LX205T is identical in looks and specs as the OJ and NuHeat.

This is a similar issue with the multitude of Wifi devices on the market.  There are hundreds of them that are rebranded but they all utilize the same backend cystem for their API and figuring out what that backend is and who controls it is the tricky part.  Great example are Tuya devices.  There are literally thousands of devices that are rebranded but they all use the same Tuya backend for their API. 

The obvious best case scenario is a device with a local API that is directly accessible.  Most Wifi device vendors don't provide this as they then lose the ability to gather/sell information about the end user.  My preference is to keep things local but device manufacturers make this very difficult.

[simplextech]

In looking around Sinope has a full line of Floor thermostats.  The Zigbee model probably works with the Hubitat Elevation hub.  You would need to ask them and verify though.  It seems that a lot of devices are choosing Zigbee now instead of Z-Wave.  I think it's likely due to the high cost and time involved in Z-Wave certification for each product.

[david-4]

Doesn't Universal Device's ISY and Polisy have a Zigbee module? And would that allow control the Sinope thermostat?