Integration with older insteon how difficult?

[swngdncr]

Wondering how difficult it would be to get our system set up with and ISY, and would it make things easier?  Are there other options? We have insteon switches in our house, sounded like the greatest thing when we remodeled in '07, but it's been nothing but a headache.  Switches constantly fail, everytime there is a power outage we loose a couple, replacing them is expensive.  Programming gets messed up for no apparent reason.  Looking for a way to make it more functional.  We have a variety of switches/keypads, a couple of old Remote Linc's,  an ICON 2814U USB &  a POwerLInck UBS 2413U.  We are upgrading to a smart thermostat and integration with Google or Alexa could be a consideration. While I have some self taught tech savey, I've done some programming in MS Access, I'm not a techie by training, and frankly, I"m retired and I rather play tennis, ride my bike, kayak and build guitars then spend countless hours of frustration and anxiety trying programming a new device.  So, basic questions, it the ISY the way to go, and how difficult and time consuming will it be to get this all set up and running smooth?  I mean, it really would be nice to benefit from the capabilities of home automation, to create scenes, control the thermostat, maybe add a garage opener.   Appreciate advice and insight.  Thanks  -cjr-

[Jim Unroe]

I have mostly Insteon devices here. I bought a used Insteon hub to get started. It didn't take long to go bad. Fortunately I got a new hub as a special package deal from Smarthome. Up to this point, everything was so-so. Then I eventually broke down and purchased a Universal-Devices ISY994iX from of Amazon. Wow, what a difference. Now I have a home automation. Should have started out with the ISY and avoided the need for (and wasted money on) the Insteon hubs.

I just retired. I don't think it was difficult to set this up. But then again, I like sitting down and figuring this kind of stuff out.

Jim

[swngdncr]

Thanks Jim, that is helpful.  I do like figuring things out too, and am pretty good at it... logical mind, but I just don't want an 'instructions are terrible, logic they used makes no sense, pull my hair out' kind of experience.    -cjf-

[paulbates]

I recommend the ISY. You'll need to get used to its way of doing things, but once you do its pretty straightforward. The way to do that is pick one room, and then one function in that room like a 3 way switch or lamps or whatever...one "virtual circuit". Factory reset the intsteon devices for that function, add them to the ISY and then rebuild the scenes (Groups). Do not manually link them at the switch.

Keep moving through your devices in that room and then other rooms until you're done. The more you do, the faster it will become. You can add programs after you get your system rebuilt

One thing the ISY won't help with is failing devices. A lot of my devices are from the 07 time frame when we remodled but almost all of them remain the originals. The few that have failed were related to brown/black outs. However, what you can do is add a power conditioner to your powerpanel, approximately $125 + installation. I believe that has helped my setup a lot, I've had one from before I ever installed insteon because of the power blips and lightening strikes we get here.

You'll need to swap out the 2413U with a 2413S, no getting around that, the ISY requires it. If you wait for a sale its ~ $40.

Paul

[oberkc]

My oldest devices are from approx 2008.  I have had very few failures.  If I had, I would follow paulbates advice regarding a power conditioner.  Ihave experienced no issues integrating old and new.  Following this stuff as a hobby, I see no controller that I would consider to be an improvement over the ISY, but I am happy with insteon and zwave.

[apostolakisl]

The ISY was of course originally an Insteon focused device.  However, it now natively supports zwave (if you buy the zwave version) and the node server brings in the option to more or less natively control anything with a public API.  The ISY itself is rock solid.  Insteon stuff is actually pretty good now in the past few years.  I too had vintage Insteon stuff and have replaced all of it with newer Insteon units.  I do not experience any Insteon problems anymore.  Insteon is running regular sales and it is not uncommon to get them for less than $25/ea.  As far as keeping you older Insteon devices, these will totally work with ISY.  Like others, I would suggest factory resetting all of your devices.  I would get the pro ISY which allows you to delay write to devices.  What you do, is run the ISY admin console on a laptop and click on the discovery button to activate that.  Walk around room to room with laptop in hand.  Pull the reset tab for a few seconds, then push and hold it for like 10 seconds to reset the device.  Then push in again for a few seconds until it goes into linking mode and it will pop up on your laptop, name the device (come up with a nice consistent naming protocol).  Move on to the next device.  Once you get through all devices, hit the button for ISY to adopt the devices.  Give it a while to finish.  Then create scenes, drag and drop the devices into the scenes.  When you are done, hit the button for ISY to write.  Now, create a backup of your ISY.  Now you are covered and will have a logical easily managed and restorable system.

[swngdncr]

Thanks fo rall the input.   OK, so it sounds like the process is to reset each the insteon switches, i.e. 8 button keypad, dimmer etc.  Add each one to the ISY, you can name them at that time, i.e bedroom entry,  kitchen entry,  master spotlights.   Once I have done all the devices, I hit the button for the ISY to adopt the devices.  Once that is complete, via the computer UI I can do the programming.  Now, this goes back to having done this so long ago, I don't remember everything about how this is set up.  We have two closets, one upstairs and one downstairs,  in those closets are what I call "master switches".  I believe these are all insteon devices.  My husband said that each circuit is wired to one of those switches.  So, there is a switch for kitchen cans, a switch for rope light, etc.  How do those play into the whole process?  Do they have to be reset as well?  A couple of those switches are dimmer switches.   And one other question,  some of the keypads have buttons, A, B,C etc. But they also have a top and bottom button labeled "on" & "off".   I never understood the difference between the on/off buttons and the A<B<C etc. buttons.  They've never really worked, or it's been so long I haven't a clue how they were originally set up.   Would those two buttons be somehow associated with a specific circuit, or can they be programmed to turn on and off any circuit in the system, it's just instead of pushing it once to turn on and once to turn, you have separate on'off buttons"? 

[oberkc]

17 hours ago, swngdncr said:

How do those play into the whole process?  Do they have to be reset as well? 

Yes, I would reset them if they are insteon switches.

 

17 hours ago, swngdncr said:

And one other question,  some of the keypads have buttons, A, B,C etc. But they also have a top and bottom button labeled "on" & "off".   I never understood the difference between the on/off buttons and the A<B<C etc. buttons.  They've never really worked, or it's been so long I haven't a clue how they were originally set up.   Would those two buttons be somehow associated with a specific circuit, or can they be programmed to turn on and off any circuit in the system, it's just instead of pushing it once to turn on and once to turn, you have separate on'off buttons"? 

Those are known as "keypadlincs".  The ON/OFF/A/B/C/D buttons can be linked to other insteon devices in such a way that they can control the other devices, or be controlled by the other devices (called "scenes").  The difference between the A/B/C/D buttons and the ON/OFF buttons is that the ON/OFF buttons also controls the load connected to the switch, itself.  This cannot be unprogrammed or reconfigured, and resetting the switch will not erase this.  The ON/OFF button are not separate devices and do not control separate loads or scenes.

[swngdncr]

Sorry to blast you folks with so many questions, but the last post raises one more. If I am following correctly, the on/off buttons control the "load connected to the switch", this can not be changed, but those on/off buttons can be programmed to also control other devices?   When you say the "load connected to the switch", does that mean that, for instance, on/off button on the keypad in the kitchen, should turn the kitchen light on/off?  I ask this because most of the on/off buttons on our keypads don't do anything. Nothing gets turned on or off- could they have been incorrectly programmed so they are not controlling the load?  Are those on/off buttons supposed to be in some why hard wired to a specific circuit?  If so, we either have a bunch of bad keypads, or they were not wired correctly.   Thanks again for all the help.  I think I need to get a pretty good assessment of what is the current condition of our system before I can move forward.  -cjr-

[paulbates]

The top and bottom On/Off buttons can 

• Physically control circuits that they are wired to. The red wire on the back of the keypad is used to wire that using the instuctions for the switch. With the ISY, that can not be changed, the on/off buttons on the keypad can be wired to a circuit in the box in which its mounted
• ... and.. using ISY scenes, the on/off buttons can control other insteon switches in sync remotely

So you can control a circuit local to the jbox its mounted in, and/or control other insteon devices remotely by defining scenes for that "virtual circuit"

A caveat is that there are 2 versions of most insteon swithces including keypadlincs:

• Dimmer control for lights up to the load  specs for the specific switch
• On/off only (no dim) for a higher load using the specs for the specific switch

We'll have an easier time if you picked one of the circuits you are trying to automate, describe what you'd like it to do and what insteon devices you have there by model number.. or type (on/off vs dimmer). The on/off versions of Insteon switches have a relay that makes a distinctive click sound a second or so after you activate the switch or on/off buttons.

Paul

[oberkc]

57 minutes ago, swngdncr said:

most of the on/off buttons on our keypads don't do anything. Nothing gets turned on or off- could they have been incorrectly programmed so they are not controlling the load?  Are those on/off buttons supposed to be in some why hard wired to a specific circuit?  If so, we either have a bunch of bad keypads, or they were not wired correctly. 

It is not actually required to wire anything to any switch, including the keypad.  If they are not physically wired to anything, then they would not turn anything on or off.  Whether this is "correct" or otherwise depends on what other devices you have, to what they are wired, and what you are trying to accomplish.

Keep in mind, too, that you may have insteon devices that are not readily visible by simple inspection.  Some devices fit into electrical boxes.  

At some point, you will need to decide what lights you want automated, whether those lights are currently connected to some smart device, and where you want to have manual control for those.  Perhaps the thing to do is to pick a single fixture that you want automated.  For that fixture, identify any insteon device that is physically connected to it.  Add that insteon device to your ISY.  Add to the ISY any other device that you would also like to control that fixture.  Add those devices.  Create a scene with those devices.  Create a simple program for those devices.  Start gaining some experience.