RichTJ99 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Hi, I finally got around to installing a switchlinc relay in the attic for the bathroom fan & the switchlinc dimmer in the bathroom for the regular lights. I have it set so that a fast on turns the fan on, a fast off turns the fan off, and if the fan is on, that 45 minutes later it will turn both the light & fan off. I think it needs a little work as my wife went to take a bath with the light & fan on, then at some point later, I went in & while i was in the lights shut off. Is this just a matter of shutting off the lights & turning them on to reset the program? Here is what i have in the "bathroom" program subfolder: BR fast on If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') BR Fast off If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast Off Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') BR light 45 minute script: If Status 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' is On Then Wait 40 minutes Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Thanks, Rich
fitzpatri8 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Putting bathroom lighting on a timer isn't usually a good idea unless you have motion sensors to override the program. People don't like being left in the dark in the bathroom. I'd take the lightswitch out of that third program. You have several options for how to deal with the light. You could write a program that automatically dims the light instead of turning it all the way off, or if the room has natural light you could turn it off if during daylight hours, but I'd be reluctant to just turn it off when people are in the house.
RichTJ99 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 Hi, I actually do have a motion sensor in there. How could I set up those programs so that if it senses motion, it restarts the countdown once that motion stops? Thanks, Rich
fitzpatri8 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Hi, I actually do have a motion sensor in there. How could I set up those programs so that if it senses motion, it restarts the countdown once that motion stops? Thanks, Rich Let me know if this works for you: Bath Fan Manual Control If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light is not switched Fast Off Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' On Wait 40 minutes Run Program 'Bath Fan Manual Control' (Else Path) Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off Bath Motion If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Motion' is On And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Bath Light Timeout If Time is Last Run Time for 'Bath Motion' + 10 minutes And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
RichTJ99 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 Fitzpatri8, Thanks for your help, let me see if i get this straight. Bath Fan Manual Control This says if the BR guest light is switched fast on, and is not turned fast off, then turn on guest fan, wait 40 minutes, then run Bath Fan Manual Control Im not sure I get that portion. Should I remove the other bathroom (fast on / fast off programs I made)? Bath Motion That says if Bathroom motion is on and light is on, then do nothing? Bath Light Timeout This says the last time the bathroom motion has run (after ten min of no motion) and the bathroom light is on, then turn bathroom light off. So the three scripts together Bath fan manual - this is stand alone - any time fast on is detected, it will wait 40 minutes then shut off. If I do a manual fast off, then another fast on, will that reset the fan? Thanks, Rich
fitzpatri8 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Fitzpatri8, Thanks for your help, let me see if i get this straight. Bath Fan Manual Control This says if the BR guest light is switched fast on, and is not turned fast off, then turn on guest fan, wait 40 minutes, then run Bath Fan Manual Control Im not sure I get that portion. Should I remove the other bathroom (fast on / fast off programs I made)? Bath Fan Manual Control would replace both your BR Fan On and BR Fan Off programs. By adding the "And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light is not switched Fast Off" line we accomplish two things: if you turn the fan off, the timer aborts, so it won't accidentally turn the fan off early if you activate it again, and you eliminate one program. The Run Else Path jumps to the Else portion of the same program, so if we look at the program status from the ISY console we can see if the program timer is currently running or not. Bath Motion That says if Bathroom motion is on and light is on, then do nothing? Almost. The ISY puts a timestamp on the program every time it runs. That's the key to the first line in the next program, Bath Light Timeout: "If From Last Run Time for 'Bath Motion' For 10 minutes." Bath Light Timeout This says the last time the bathroom motion has run (after ten min of no motion) and the bathroom light is on, then turn bathroom light off. That's the hope--I'm still new at this myself, that's why I wanted you to tell me if it works! (The original post was wrong. I just edited it and corrected the logic.) Bath fan manual - this is stand alone - any time fast on is detected, it will wait 40 minutes then shut off. If I do a manual fast off, then another fast on, will that reset the fan? Exactly. Let me know if it works as expected!
RichTJ99 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Let me know if this works for you: Bath Fan Manual Control If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light is not switched Fast Off Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' On Wait 40 minutes Run Program 'Bath Fan Manual Control' (Else Path) Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off Fitz - will that allow me to do a fast off as a manual off for the fan? Bath Motion If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Motion' is On And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') For some reason I cant get the motion to be "On" its "Switched on". I dont know if that makes a difference. My code is below. If Control 'Motion: Bathroom Sensor' is switched On And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Thanks! I will let you know how this goes. RIch
fitzpatri8 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Let me know if this works for you: Bath Fan Manual Control If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light is not switched Fast Off Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' On Wait 40 minutes Run Program 'Bath Fan Manual Control' (Else Path) Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off Fitz - will that allow me to do a fast off as a manual off for the fan? Yes, it should. For some reason I cant get the motion to be "On" its "Switched on". I dont know if that makes a difference. My code is below. That was just a typo on my part. Your code should be fine.
RichTJ99 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 I just wanted you to know this works great! Just as expected! I am thinking I might change the time for the motion portion to 20 minutes (in case someone is in the bath). I was also wondering if it made sense to add sometihng so that if the light is off & it sees motion, it turns the light on. More for hte person stuck in the bathtub who stands up in the pitch dark (its an interior bathroom). Another thing I was wondering was if it made sense to add something for the dusk/dawn sensor. It seems that the Insteon motion sensors dusk/dawn portion is triggered after 5 minutes of light (or dark). I dont know what that gets us aside from an extra 5 minutes on the timer. Thanks! Rich
Algorithm Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I just wanted you to know this works great! Just as expected! I am thinking I might change the time for the motion portion to 20 minutes (in case someone is in the bath). I was also wondering if it made sense to add sometihng so that if the light is off & it sees motion, it turns the light on. More for hte person stuck in the bathtub who stands up in the pitch dark (its an interior bathroom). Another thing I was wondering was if it made sense to add something for the dusk/dawn sensor. It seems that the Insteon motion sensors dusk/dawn portion is triggered after 5 minutes of light (or dark). I dont know what that gets us aside from an extra 5 minutes on the timer. Thanks! Rich Hi Rich, Definitely I would have motion turn the light on, yes. Then after a period of no motion, turn the light off. My main bath has a motion sensor which covers the room completely, except for the bath/shower, because the bath/shower has doors on it which the sensor can't see through. The main bath door also has a TriggerLinc (formerly a DS10a), so ISY knows whether the door is open or closed. The idea being that if the door is open, the occupant won't be too long (washing hands or whatever), but if the door is closed the occupant could be having a bath/shower and therefore not re-triggering the motion sensor. When the door is open, the lights (and fan) shut off after five minutes of no motion. When the door is closed, that time is increased to 45 minutes, to allow for a nice hot bath or a leisurely 20 minute shower . It could be set longer for that matter. After all, if the door is closed and there is no motion for an hour, there is a more serious problem than the lights being left on! But when the door is opened, the timer reverts from the long period to the short period, so the lights don't stay on for 45 minutes!
RichTJ99 Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 So what would be the best way to add motion turning the light on into the mix? Should it be added to the "bathroom motion" script? I admit the programing logic is hard for me to grasp, the terms of control vs status are a little confusing. Logically speaking: If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is not switched Fast Off Control meaning that if the fast on is "on" & Fast off, is "not off" Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' On Wait 30 minutes Run Program 'Bathroom Fan Manual Control ' (Else Path) Again fast on is on & fast off is not off - then turn on the fan, wait 30 min, then run this program were already in (I dont understand this), it goes back to the begining? Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off I dont get how it knows to go to off, is it because the status (though its control & I am not sure what that means) is neither fast on or "not" fast off? Thanks, Rich (very confused, but really wants to learn this)
RichTJ99 Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Darrel, can you share your bathroom script? Maybe i can pick up something new? Thanks, Rich
markens Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 the terms of control vs status are a little confusing. See if this helps: A "control" event happens when the associated switch (control) is operated. The event exists only at the instant the control is activated and the associated message is received by the ISY. It does not create any lingering state which can be evaluated later in a condition. (Control conditions are always FALSE if the IF is evaluated any time the event was not what triggered evaluation of the conditions.) A "status" condition is the actual status of the device, no matter how it got that way. A program can evaluate a "status" condition at any time. Although it's useful to know that a change in status (as seen by the ISY) will cause a program with a condition on that status to stop (if running) and reevaluate the IF clause in its entirety. And this is a key to understanding ISY programming logic: a program's IF clause will run whenever any of the specific condition items in that IF change state (status) or are activated (control). It won't run any other time (unless called manually or there are other conditions such as time). So consider this commonly used construct, from your example: If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is not switched Fast Off When does this IF execute? Whenever the 'Bathroom: Guest Light' switch is turned Fast On OR turned Fast Off. Either action causes it to run. The next step is to evaluate the logic once the program runs: - If the event is a FAST ON (which means that a FAST OFF could not have been received at the same time), then both conditions are TRUE and the fan turns on (THEN clause): (FAST ON) AND NOT (FAST OFF) = (TRUE) AND NOT (FALSE) = TRUE AND TRUE = TRUE - Similarly, if the event is a FAST OFF (which means that a FAST ON was not received) then the condition is FALSE and the fan turns off: (FAST ON) AND NOT (FAST OFF) = (FALSE) AND NOT (TRUE) = FALSE AND FALSE = FALSE The presence of the NOT OFF is why the ELSE turns off the fan. It's also why the program is interrupted if it's in the WAIT when the FAST OFF is received: the event causes the IF to reevaluate: it's now FALSE, and the fan turns off. Clearer, I hope! --Mark
fitzpatri8 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 So what would be the best way to add motion turning the light on into the mix? Should it be added to the "bathroom motion" script? The simplest option would be to add to the Else portion of the Bath Motion program. "Else Set 'Bath: Guest Light' On" As best I can tell, adding door open/closed logic to adjust timers would require adding a couple of programs. We haven't even addressed the ambient light question--if this bathroom has a window, do you want the outside light level (as determined by the optional Weatherbug module, since the motion detector's dusk/dawn detector needs 3+ minutes to adjust to changing conditions) to influence whether motion turns on the light? This could get complicated!
Algorithm Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Darrel, can you share your bathroom script? Maybe i can pick up something new? Thanks, Rich Hi Rich, Sorry for the delay; we have been very busy here at UDI. I've written up my programs as a tutorial and posted them in the topic Using motion sensors in bathrooms.
RichTJ99 Posted August 7, 2009 Author Posted August 7, 2009 So what would be the best way to add motion turning the light on into the mix? Should it be added to the "bathroom motion" script? The simplest option would be to add to the Else portion of the Bath Motion program. "Else Set 'Bath: Guest Light' On" Fitz - thanks for the help, that works great. Its nice to walk into the bathroom & have the light turn itself on. I am debating adding a triggerlinc so the light turns on when the door opens but I am not sure how the two would interact. Darrel - thanks for putting your info up, I am sure I will have plenty of questions soon! Thanks, Rich
RichTJ99 Posted August 7, 2009 Author Posted August 7, 2009 Actually, the light seems to keep putting itself on for no reason. Any ideas if I did something wrong? Motion Script: If Control 'Motion: Bathroom Sensor' is switched On And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light' On Bathroom Light Timeout: If Time is Last Run Time for 'Bathroom Motion ' + 25 minutes And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Bathroom Fan Manual Control: If Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is switched Fast On And Control 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is not switched Fast Off Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' On Wait 30 minutes Run Program 'Bathroom Fan Manual Control ' (Else Path) Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Fan' Off Thanks for the help figuring this out. Thanks, Rich
Algorithm Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Actually, the light seems to keep putting itself on for no reason. Any ideas if I did something wrong? Motion Script: If Control 'Motion: Bathroom Sensor' is switched On And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light' On Rich, change your first program to: If Control 'Motion: Bathroom Sensor' is switched On And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is NOT On Then Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
RichTJ99 Posted August 15, 2009 Author Posted August 15, 2009 While my wife thinks I am a little OCD..... Anyway, I am playing with some new ideas that I saw while looking at Darrel's scripting. The Slow Dim to off idea. I added a new scene called Scene: Bathroom Motion Ramp. The only item in this scene is the bathroom light & the ramp rate is 60 seconds. The idea being when the light goes out it takes 60 seconds & if someone moves, the lights go back on. This is good but while the lights do dim, when there is motion, they go back up at the same slow speed (which i guess is OK but I dont understand why it does this). Here is my current attempt at a program: If Time is Last Run Time for 'Bathroom Motion ' + 1 minute And Status 'Bathroom: Guest Light' is On Then Set Scene 'Scene: Bathroom Motion Ramp P' Off Wait 5 seconds Set 'Bathroom: Guest Light' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I had to add that extra "Wait & "Set Off" as I think that when just the scene turned off the lights, the ISY didnt register the bathroom light as off, even though the scene turned it off. All my other scripts for the bathroom are the same as well. I may add a triggerlinc into the mix at some point too. Any advice is welcomed. Thanks, Rich
Sub-Routine Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Hi Rich, I use two different scenes, a quick ramp rate and a slow ramp rate. Rand
janzzdave Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 thanks for having this one, this could be easy for me.. _________________ Bathroom fan
Recommended Posts