Kentinada Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I was going to replace an existing switch today with an INSTEON 2477S but when I opened the switch box, I discovered the only wire in the box is a switch leg. I have no common to connect to the INSTEON switch. I assume I'm toast with this and can't use INSTEON here? Link to comment
TomL Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 The 2474 does not require a neutral, but if I recall correctly it is a dimmer, not sure if they have a on/off switch. I believe they called it a 2 wire. Link to comment
simplextech Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Is it controlling a light or something else? There is the Insteon Dimmer that does NOT require a neutral wire. I have one in use as I didn't feel the need to pull wire for that single light. I would suggest you may want to pull some other switches just to take a look and see if this is a wide spread problem in your home or just that room/area/switch. Link to comment
Brian H Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 One limitation of the 2474 two wire dimmer. Is it is designed for incandescent load only. Others have found that other types like dimmable LED bulbs may not work. Link to comment
simplextech Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 That is true. Which is one reason why I asked about the load. If it was for a light or something else (like a switched outlet). I have a switched outlet that this won't work for so I went a different route on that one pending a re-wire when my daughter changes rooms. Link to comment
PhanTomiZ Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Another option is the Insteon micro dimmer. Link to comment
upstatemike Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Install a Lutron Caseta switch which can handle a good range of lighting types without a neutral wire. Use Polyglot to control it from your Insteon environment. If you take the micro dimmer approach then you can change the wiring at the fixture so the load wire is instead a neutral wire to the switch box. You can then use any Insteon switch or keypad to control the micro dimmer in the fixture. If you don't want to mess with the wiring then cap off the wires in the switch box and use a remotelinc2 mounted in the switch bracket to control the micro dimmer. Link to comment
Brian H Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 If you go with the RemoteLinc2. The bracket is made for a flat surface. If you try and mount it in an electrical box. It will not fit. Link to comment
simplextech Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Brian H said: If you go with the RemoteLinc2. The bracket is made for a flat surface. If you try and mount it in an electrical box. It will not fit. This is a complaint I have with the bracket. I wish SmartHome or someone would 3d print a nice electrical box mount for the RemoteLinc2. that would be great! This is something I really love about the Lutron Pico's and their mounting options. Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, simplextech said: This is a complaint I have with the bracket. I wish SmartHome or someone would 3d print a nice electrical box mount for the RemoteLinc2. that would be great! This is something I really love about the Lutron Pico's and their mounting options. OK, so I don't have any of the RemoteLinc2's. But just looking at the product, I see the optional wall mount bracket. Seems like you should be able to use that to screw the remotelinc and a decora switchplate cover into a single entity, then use some hot glue around the edge of the switchplate and glue it to the lip of sheetrock around the single gang box. Hot glue holds quite well, but not so well that you can't pull it off if you need. Link to comment
simplextech Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 minute ago, apostolakisl said: OK, so I don't have any of the RemoteLinc2's. But just looking at the product, I see the optional wall mount bracket. Seems like you should be able to use that to screw the remotelinc and a decora switchplate cover into a single entity, then use some hot glue around the edge of the switchplate and glue it to the lip of sheetrock around the single gang box. Hot glue holds quite well, but not so well that you can't pull it off if you need. The mount bracket has not "back" to it and only holds the remote in by two touch points (top/bottom) and it uses the "wall" as the backing surface for pressure when pressing the switch. Without the wall behind the "mount" when you push the remote it wiggles about is horrible and if pressed too hard will pop through the mount into the gang box.... Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Just now, simplextech said: The mount bracket has not "back" to it and only holds the remote in by two touch points (top/bottom) and it uses the "wall" as the backing surface for pressure when pressing the switch. Without the wall behind the "mount" when you push the remote it wiggles about is horrible and if pressed too hard will pop through the mount into the gang box.... How about cut a piece of flat plastic to the dimensions of the front of the gang box and screw it down using the two screw holes in the gang box top and bottom. That would give you the back stop. Link to comment
Brian H Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Here is the brackets page. Near the bottom of the page. It says not for mounting over an electrical box. https://www.smarthome.com/mini-remote-wall-mount-bracket.html Link to comment
simplextech Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, apostolakisl said: How about cut a piece of flat plastic to the dimensions of the front of the gang box and screw it down using the two screw holes in the gang box top and bottom. That would give you the back stop. If it were thick enough plastic to not flex when pushed against then you're creating a flat/hard surface for the mount to rest against just like a wall. So it would work but it's a lot of work to compensate for a bad mount design from SmartHome I wonder... do they make dimensional gang box covers/fillers that would cover the box and not protrude past the drywall? I've used the blank plate covers before but that adds thickness and is unappealing having the switch mount attached to that and it's then not easy to put a decorative face plate on top of that. Hmm... Link to comment
Kentinada Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 Wow, this is why this forum is incredibly valuable. Lots of great discussion. In the end, I just left the old switch alone. It wasn't worth the added expense or hassle for the desired end result. Thanks for all the ideas though! Link to comment
apostolakisl Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, Brian H said: Here is the brackets page. Near the bottom of the page. It says not for mounting over an electrical box. https://www.smarthome.com/mini-remote-wall-mount-bracket.html Presumably for the reason listed above . . . it would pop out of the bracket backwards when pushed on. A gang box cover like I described would effectively make the gang box flush and flat with the surrounding wall and solve that issue. A standard single gang box "blank" run through your handy table saw to trim the edges back to the same dimensions as the gang box itself would cost about 50 cents and take about 1 minute to cut . . . provided you have a table saw ready to go. Then it would slip inside the sheetrock edges and, provided the gang box is at least a little deeper than the sheetrock, be flush, with the possible addition of some washers in the event that the gang box were mounted very deeply. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't also pass code. It is a code compliant plastic gang box cover that you are using. Link to comment
Brian H Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 A flat cover over the boxes front. Sounds like a good thing to try. Link to comment
upstatemike Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I wonder if a Lutron Pico wall bracket could also be used as backing for an Insteon RemoteLink2 ? Just holding the pieces in my hand suggest it could be made to work Link to comment
simplextech Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, upstatemike said: I wonder if a Lutron Pico wall bracket could also be used as backing for an Insteon RemoteLink2 ? Just holding the pieces in my hand suggest it could be made to work No they aren't compatible. The way a Pico fits into the bracket won't work with the RemoteLinc2. I've tried as I have both. If trying to hack something the piece of plastic or cut down plate to go over the gang box is the best route. Link to comment
fman47 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I have the same problem, what did you end up doing Link to comment
giesen Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I was going to replace an existing switch today with an INSTEON 2477S but when I opened the switch box, I discovered the only wire in the box is a switch leg. I have no common to connect to the INSTEON switch. I assume I'm toast with this and can't use INSTEON here? You can always run a new NMD-90 or a separate neutral to the box. I ended up having to do this for about half of my switches and all of my outlets (to get a ground). It means cutting holes in your walls and it's a lot of work, but can be very rewarding and you learn a lot. My 1958 house has had about 80% of the electrical replaced at this point (slowly over about 5 years), but it adds value (at least in my case) and gives peace of mind.Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk Link to comment
simplextech Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 3 hours ago, fman47 said: I have the same problem, what did you end up doing What are you trying to do? What's the end-goal? I understand the problem is you don't have a neutral at the switch however a "solution" depends on what you have already, what you're willing to buy or work you're willing to do or have done to meet the end-goal. Link to comment
oberkc Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 If it were me and I wanted insteon (or z-wave or similar) at the switch location and all I had was a switch loop, I would go to the fixture box (where the switch loop is initiated) and repurpose the wires to the switch as hot and neutral. In the fixture box I would add a micro module, to which the load would be connected and by which the load would be controlled. At the switch box, I now have hot and neutral and I would install a standard insteon switch, capping off the red "load" wire. Once everything is installed, I would link the switch to the micro module. Done. No wires. No mess. No fuss. Link to comment
dbwarner5 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 RL in a switch box... I cut a piece of tin the right size and mounted it behind the RL, using the same screw holes. works great. Link to comment
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