M1G, ISY-99 and X10

[Traditore]

A few weeks ago, I posted this on Cocoontech, but did not get an answer. So I'll try my luck here.

 

Before I bought my M1G, I had a GE Simon 3 (it was from the previous owner of the house...) When the panel alarm rang, I had a few X10 sirens (set on B9) that went off too. I kinda miss those since I put in my M1G. Is there a way for the M1G to tell my ISY (or the PLM) to set off the X10 sirens in case of an alarm? Or do I need a PLC interface that plugs into the M1G (like the PSC05 or something like that)? Or would I be better off waiting for a better M1G-ISY integration?

[MikeB]

I can think of a roundabout way. Perhaps have the Elk turn on a KPL secondary button somewhere, maybe in the master bedroom, that would be a visual indication of an alarm. Make the button a non-toggle OFF button.

 

You could have the ISY send an X10 code to sound your sirens if that KPL button gets turned ON.

 

Or, if you don't want a visual indication of an alarm, throw an ApplianceLinc somewhere and do the same thing. If the Elk goes into alarm mode, turn on the ApplianceLinc. If the ApplianceLinc is ON, the ISY sounds your X10 sirens.

[ResIpsa]

Just thinking out loud here (since I use a panel that's not an Elk), but can't this be accomplished with flags?

 

For example, I have a motion sensor in my living room. One program dims the lights when there's no activity for 20 minutes, and another program brings up the lights if someone walks into the room. We sometimes like to manually dim the lights in the room (always with our Harmony remote) and just doze on the couch. I quickly discovered, however, that rolling over on the couch would trigger the motion sensor and bring the lights up. Very annoying, and VERY low WAF. I solved my problem with a series of programs:

 

Program #1 is named Living Room Is Manually Dimmed. (This program is used to keep track of when the lights have been manually dimmed. For those who aren't aware, and I learned it while working on this project, running a program's "Then" path sets the program's status as "TRUE", and running a program's "Else" path sets its status as "FALSE".)

 

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Program #2 is named Living Room (Flag) IR Dim Pressed. It watches for the lights to be manually dimmed, and if they are, sets Program #1 to "True" by running its THEN path:

 

If
       Status  'Living Room Lamp (Sofa)' > 75%
   And (
            IR 'TV : 2' is Pressed
         Or IR 'TV : 3' is Pressed
         Or IR 'TV : 4' is Pressed
       )

Then
       Run Program 'Living Room Is Manually Dimmed' (Then Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Program #3 is named Living Room On (Full) with Motion. This is the program that brings up the lights, but only if they haven't been manually dimmed:

 

If
       (
            Program 'Early Night (Sunset - 9:30 PM)' is True
         Or Program 'Middle Night (9:30 PM - 11:30 PM)' is True
       )
   And Program 'Living Room Is Manually Dimmed' is False
   And Program 'Motion (Living Room)' is True

Then
       Set Scene 'Living Room Full' On
       Wait  5 seconds
       Set Scene 'Living Room Full' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

I do have a program to note when the manually dimmed lights are manually brightened, just in case that (rarely) happens before bed time.

 

If
       Program 'Living Room Is Manually Dimmed' is True
   And IR 'TV : 1' is Pressed

Then
       Run Program 'Living Room Is Manually Dimmed' (Else Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

I also have a program to set the "manually dimmed" program back to false every night, just in case there's a hiccup and it doesn't get reset:

 

If
       Time is Sunrise -  3 hours 
   And Program 'Living Room Is Manually Dimmed' is True

Then
       Run Program 'Living Room (Flag) IR Dim Pressed' (Else Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

So, anyway, applying these techniques it seems like you should be able to use flags to detect when your alarm is tripped, and use those flags to sound your X10 alarms and turn them off after a fixed amount of time. I chose this route over the dummy ApplianceLinc issue because I just don't care to have unnecessary wall warts hanging out in my receptacles, regardless of how out of the the way they are.

[MikeB]

But, how does the ISY know that the alarm has tripped?

[fitzpatri8]

You can let the ISY know that any brand of security system has started sounding an alarm--just connect a 12 volt relay to the siren output on the alarm, then connect that to an IO Linc.

[TJF1960]

Another programming idea would be to set up 1 or more lights to turn on in or around the house (via a program in the M1G) during an alarm condition. Then have the ISY determine if the lights were controlled manually thru the light switch(s)or via a program(s) in the ISY. If neither were true a program in the ISY would send B9 on or off.

Such as:

 

Program Entry Hall Light Status On Flag

If
       Status  'Entry Hall Light' is On
   And Status  'Entry Hall Light' is not Off

Then
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Program Entry Hall Light Control Switch On Status Flag

If
       Control 'Entry Hall Light' is switched On
   And Control 'Entry Hall Light' is not switched Off

Then
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Else
-	No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Program B9 Siren On


If
       Program ‘Entry Hall Light Control Switch On Status Flag ' is False
   And Program ‘Entry Hall Light Status On Flag ' is True

Then
       Wait  1 second
       Send X10 'B9/On (3)'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

A similar structured set of programs would be required to turn off the siren after the alarm is reset.

 

In this particular scenario the light being turned on and off via the M1G cannot be in any programs or scenes which turn the light on because the program B9 Siren On is looking for the light being turned on by something other than its load controlling switch. But I would imagine other programs could be developed which would take other factors into consideration.

 

Although I like fitzpatri8 idea too. Gives me some ideas for my existing alarm system until I get the M1G.

[Traditore]

This is much more involved that I thought it would be. I'm gonna have to test all those programs to see what better meets my needs.

 

Just a little something I noticed: don't we have to send the X10 ON/OFF command repeatedly for the X10 siren to sound? I don't think B9 ON alone would work.

[Brian H]

Yes a On Off cycle at about 1 second intervals. To the sirens X10 address is needed to trip it. If it is an X10 siren. All Lights On and All Lights Off to the sirens House Code, also works. As does an All Units Off for the off part of the cycle.

 

The siren sounds in about four cycles and continues for four seconds after the cycle stops. I believe there is also a four minute timeout if the cycles continue that long.

 

If it is not an X10 siren then maybe a simple on would work.

[Traditore]

I just tried something simple: sending B9 ON/B9 OFF/B9 ON at a set time. It does activate the siren, but only for a few seconds. Using REPEAT EVERY x seconds or REPEAT FOR x times does not change anything to the duration. I don't think programming dozens of consecutive ON/OFF is the way to go. Any better ideas?

[MikeB]

Are you trying something like this?:

 

If
       Status  'AlarmButton' is On

Then
       Repeat Every  5 seconds
          Send X10 'B1/On (3)'
          Wait  1 second
          Send X10 'B1/Off (11)'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Note that the REPEAT command must be above the lines you want to repeat.

[Traditore]

Nope. I put the REPEAT at the bottom and I can't test this now because the kids went to bed. ):

[Traditore]

A quick update, nobody being home but me...

 

The REPEAT command works fine when placed before my X10 signal. Thus, I can sound the alarm just fine by turn on a light locally.

 

If
       Control '0F.D2.3D.1/SDJ' is switched On

Then
       Repeat Every  5 seconds
          Send X10 'B9/On (3)'
          Wait  1 second
          Send X10 'B9/Off (11)'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

But when I turn on that light through my M1G (using an unused output or a keypad button), the siren does not trigger even though the light turns on.

 

(By the way, what format should we select after importing the ISY config file into ELK? The choices are: Standard, Extended, Preset Dim, Compose and Serial Expander.)

 

Strangely, if I use the following program, it does work through my M1G.

 

Status  '0F.D2.3D.1/SDJ' is On

Then
       Repeat Every  5 seconds
          Send X10 'B9/On (3)'
          Wait  1 second
          Send X10 'B9/Off (11)'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

But only if it's the main button from the KPL. A secondary button does not seem to do the trick. I'm confused...

[Traditore]

As I've mentioned in my previous post, when my M1G turns on a light, ISY reacts one way if the IF part of a program is STATUS and another way if the IF part is CONTROL.

 

ISY won't execute the THEN part if the condition is CONTROL but it does if the condition is STATUS.

 

I've done so more testing. Whatever I do, my M1G won't ever turn on a secondary KPL button. Does your mileage vary? I'd like to know if this is a bug and, if so, if it can be fixed.

 

That rules out MikeB's idea. Plus, I don't have a spare ApplianceLinc...

 

As for ResIpsa's suggestion: it's a no go because it involves an I/O Linc. I'd really like to keep it simple.

 

Until then, I put to good use TJF1960's programs (I can't believe I found a light in my house that is not part of any scene or program!) Of course, I don't know what the heck I'm doing because I can't understand anything about flags. But I hope I will one day.

 

At least, it works for now. Thank you to everyone who contributed.

[Michel Kohanim]

Traditore,

 

Control is issued if and only if the device is a) turn on/off physically or through a direct command. Status is issued regardless of the method by which the device was impacted. But, it's issued if and only if the status has indeed changed.

 

The secondary buttons on KPL issue, have you tried putting them in a scene? If so, can they be controlled via the Admin Console but not through ELK?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Traditore]

I've tried your suggestion. Putting a secondary KPL button alone in a scene (as a responder or a controller) does the trick. M1G can turn them on and off, just like any load-bearing switch.

 

I don't understand why it only works when they are in a scene, but I'm glad it does.

 

Now, I can use TJF1960's code to activate the X10 sirens, but I feel like I'm cheating when it comes to deactivating them. Here's my program:

 

If
       Control '0F.D2.3D.H/X10 Sirens' is switched Off
    Or Status  '0F.D2.3D.H/X10 Sirens' is Off

Then
       Stop program 'Siren ON'

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Shouldn't this be more complicated? It does turn off the sirens, so I can't complain. But it feels like there's something I haven't thought about that will mess it all up eventually.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Traditore,

 

I am so very glad that you got your KPL buttons to work. The reason that they only work through scene is because that's how they were designed. There are newer versions that allow individual control of LEDs but since there's no uniform way of figuring out which ones support this feature, we have left it out for now.

 

And, I do not see anything wrong with your program.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Traditore]

This is my newest KPL. I think I bought it about two months ago. I guess they sent me an "old one".

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Traditore,

 

I do not think they've sent you an old one ... it's just that we do not know which version support this feature and which versions don't. As such, we've just left it as is till we find a table outlining which one does support it. As long as the workaround exists, we are going to spend our time on more pressing issues/bugs.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

This is my newest KPL. I think I bought it about two months ago. I guess they sent me an "old one".

[Traditore]

Sorry. I read your post too quick about the feature being left out of ISY. My KPL might not be that old after all. (: