2852-222 Leak Sensor - Repair & Best Practices

[Teken]

I wanted to start a new thread to share information, best practices, and possible break fixes. The related thread for the 2413S PLM repair thread has no doubt saved quite a few members from having to buy another unit.

My hopes is the community at large will once again come together to diagnose and identify root cause(s) to some of the components that should be inspected for out of tolerance / failure.

Before doing so, I will share with you some of the best practices that I follow to insure the longest service life.

HARD RESET: Any new device that is purchased is immediately hard reset per the full users manual to insure there are no test links, programming, etc.

ISY NOTES: The ISY Series Controller offers the ability to right mouse click on a specific hardware and bring up the Notes. I use the notes option to track all the relevant hardware information such as purchase date, vendor, production date, hardware revision, firmware, location, battery change out, and replacement.

As seen below it also calls out how this sensor behaves for wet / dry, heart beat, and reset process.

ISY NOTES IMAGE HERE

MAINTENANCE: The Leak Sensor comes encased with clear plastic and tape. Using a sharp blade cut just one side where the bottom plate meets the case. Doing so will allow you to have a hinge assembly from the remaining tape.

CUT TAPE IMAGE HERE

Once the tape has been cut use a number 2 standard flat head screw driver to pop open the bottom case.

Regardless of what type of battery is provided or used I always apply a small amount of dielectric grease to both ends of the battery terminals.

As seen here I made a sacrifice just for you folks to show case what can and will happen if you don’t apply dielectric compound to the terminals. I removed the lithium cell and replaced it with a standard Duracell battery.

 

As many know by now the quality of Duracell batteries have simply gotten worse over the years. I have used this brand exclusively for more than 40 years and in many of the facilities we managed this brand was required.

No more!

The dielectric compound is applied to both top and bottom terminals.

The two water sensing dimples and internal traces are also given the same treatment. Failure to do so will result in the cheap nickel plate to react to the concrete and water and begin to rust out.

Once the assembly is well coated with dielectric compound I mark the battery with a install date. As noted up above the same is documented in the ISY Series Controllers notes field. Seen here the sh^tty Duracell’s have been replaced with standard energizer battery cells.

Having used this specific battery model leakage has not occurred as fast or at all regardless of the device type.

REPAIR: As noted in several threads created here. Last month while doing some regular maintenance found 5 sensors failed to report in their heart beat?!? What are the odds 5 sensors failed at the same time from a battery failure? Well, in my case it was 100% due to a failed so called 10 year lithium battery!

I do have to say they did last at least for 4-6 years!

Anyways having replaced four units with new batteries I found the sump pump sensor was literally still dead?!? So this leads to the whole purpose of this thread as to what are the possible components within the unit. I haven’t started to get down to low level testing but have already determined the bad (sump pump) sensor has a huge voltage drop when compared to a working unit.

A working unit with the lithium cell at the time of reading was 1.5X VDC. The defective and broken unit which showed no sign of life had a 1.2X VDC. This weekend I plan to break out some diagnostic gear to measure the base values of each component energized and without.

This I hope will offer a reference to others in the future.

See you all at the same bat place, same bat channel!

 

 

[Mustang65]

I agree with the review on the batteries. I have a bunch of things that use AA batteries and they became corroded as yours did. I found these replacement battery connections on eBay and I modify them (cut to size) to replace the corroded ones. So far they are working great. 30 pieces for $1.53 (USD). Can't go wrong with the price.

You can cut the existing spring wire from the existing connector and solder it on the new connector. Although thy are from China:-(

 

[Teken]

21 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

I agree with the review on the batteries. I have a bunch of things that use AA batteries and they became corroded as yours did. I found these replacement battery connections on eBay and I modify them (cut to size) to replace the corroded ones. So far they are working great. 30 pieces for $1.53 (USD). Can't go wrong with the price.

You can cut the existing spring wire from the existing connector and solder it on the new connector. Although thy are from China:-(

 

Excellent find and really appreciate you sharing this with me and the group. It's seeing feedback about different issues being addressed with other solutions. For now the unit I have on hand which is quite oxidized has been buffed out with a Dremel. I'll keep your suggestion in mind should it fail to be a long term solution. 

[Mustang65]

51 minutes ago, Teken said:

Excellent find and really appreciate you sharing this with me and the group. It's seeing feedback about different issues being addressed with other solutions. For now the unit I have on hand which is quite oxidized has been buffed out with a Dremel. I'll keep your suggestion in mind should it fail to be a long term solution. 

I tried sandpaper and that did not work long run. Even tried electrical contact cleaner, baking soda... no luck there either.

[Teken]

41 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

I tried sandpaper and that did not work long run. Even tried electrical contact cleaner, baking soda... no luck there either.

Yeah, depending upon how oxidized the part is, going full on and removing the rust via sanding with a high speed wheel is the only way if you're hard set in using the existing part as the results are less than positive with other methods. 

[larryllix]

I typically use fine Emery cloth and then silicone spray to seal the metal again. Rinsing with baking soda or vinegar may help to reverse whatever ph the battery is.

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[Teken]

Just a quick update that I metered out all of the components and wrote down their values - in circuit. I'll need to remove a few of the components to verify their actual values and current operating state. One thing for sure the unit that failed has a dead short somewhere because I inserted a brand new Energizer battery with a initial voltage of 1.65 VDC. In less than eight hours the battery was completely flat.

I find it incredible that something literally sitting in a hole never tripped and looks completely new could just go poof?!? Given the components are extremely small I'll need to be extra careful when I dial up the reflow station otherwise those parts are going to go - swoosh!

[lilyoyo1]

21 minutes ago, Teken said:

Just a quick update that I metered out all of the components and wrote down their values - in circuit. I'll need to remove a few of the components to verify their actual values and current operating state. One thing for sure the unit that failed has a dead short somewhere because I inserted a brand new Energizer battery with a initial voltage of 1.65 VDC. In less than eight hours the battery was completely flat.

I find it incredible that something literally sitting in a hole never tripped and looks completely new could just go poof?!? Given the components are extremely small I'll need to be extra careful when I dial up the reflow station otherwise those parts are going to go - swoosh!

Have you tried the zwave leak sensors? I like those better. Fibaro specifically

[Teken]

35 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Have you tried the zwave leak sensors? I like those better. Fibaro specifically

Actually, I have been migrating slowly to hardwired and have considered this for Z-Wave: https://aeotec.com/professional-z-wave-water-leak-tool/ 

[lilyoyo1]

Looks good. The fibaro can be hardwired as well

[Teken]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Looks good. The fibaro can be hardwired as well

I forgot you like that eye ball sensor thing! 

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, Teken said:

I forgot you like that eye ball sensor thing! 

Yeah it has Lux, Temp, etc.... OH and they work! ?

[Teken]

Just now, simplextech said:

Yeah it has Lux, Temp, etc.... OH and they work! ?

Noted, the great eye see's all and - works! 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Teken said:

I forgot you like that eye ball sensor thing! 

 Ive actually switched over to dome's version. Still the same thing though. lol

 

[simplextech]

37 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

 Ive actually switched over to dome's version. Still the same thing though. lol

Nuh uh... it doesn't have the actual eye imprint

 

[larryllix]

Here is a photo of the inside of the last two LD's  I purchased and got my money back. The version 2.6 case won't close or seal due to a new part (crystal) that space wasn't provided for. If you opened the case from the wrong end, the clip will break the coil off.  Ask me how I know.

Maybe this is one of the new surprise Insteon launches. How are these morons still in business, when they have no QC and just don't give a sh^t?

 

Here is the previous version 2.0. They attempted to add components using the old case.

 

 

[Brian H]

Thanks for sharing your findings. It does seem like a step in the wrong direction.

I had seen similar things in the older Insteon modules. Looks like the same questionable engineers where kept by new management or all the good engineers where replaced by lower cost replacements. With little actual experience on how to do thing correctly.

[Teken]

@larryllix

Was the Energizer lithium battery present when you opened the new unit??

[sandryseibert]

That's why I only use LI batteries. Too many devices lost on regular NIMH or standard AA batteries leak.

[larryllix]

@larryllix

Was the Energizer lithium battery present when you opened the new unit??

Yes. It came with the Eveready

 

The cover lifted at one end first, hooked under the coil and broke it.

 

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[Teken]

Has anyone found a reliable source for similar no name lithium cells with the same or higher ampacity? There was a link where I used to purchase the same but it looks to be the vendor is no longer selling on line.