Scene fundamentals. ?

[toddhutch]

Ok so I think I need to confirm my understands of scenes.

I have a situation where light A is controlled by two 2477D dimmers, one dimmer controls the light, the other is just hooked up to power.

To make those two dimmers act as a three way switch, I've added them to a scene (Scene A) and made them both a controller and responder.

--

If a program triggers a switch that is a member of scene A both a controller and responder of scene A , the other members of the scene won't be effected.

There is no way to query the status of a scene?? If I want to do this I have to query one of the switches that is a member of scene A

When you have a program and you want to trigger light A, it is best practice to turn on scene A rather than turn on one of the switches directly?

 

 

 

 

 

[PurdueGuy]

It depends on what you want to do.

In a standard 3-way, where there is just one actual load, yes, you probably want to "turn on the scene" so that everything stays in sync.

There is no "query a scene" and has been discussed hundreds of times.

What would "scene status" mean to you?  A scene is "on" if what?  All the devices are on?  Most of the devices are on?  What is they are not set to the exact level of the scene?  (One device is at 49%, instead of 50% as per the ISY-managed scene.  Does that mean the scene is on?  It's 99% on?  It's 49% on?  Everyone's definition would be different.)

If you really want to know when a scene is on, watch for whatever triggers the scene to turn on.

• A "Control Switch is turned on" for either switch would do it.

If a scene is triggered via a program, well you have the trigger already. 

You could also use device status, is there is just one device....and use ANDs if more?  (but that gets cumbersome, and you're better off catching the trigger):

• Or "Status SwitchA is xxx%"
• Or "Status SwitchA is not Off"

Something like that.

[MrBill]

12 hours ago, toddhutch said:

I have a situation where light A is controlled by two 2477D dimmers, one dimmer controls the light, the other is just hooked up to power.

To make those two dimmers act as a three way switch, I've added them to a scene (Scene A) and made them both a controller and responder.

The short answer is make them BOTH CONTROLLER's.  Why because you want them both to control the scene, and any controller is automatically also a responder.

There are reason's you may want a responder only, but in general make everything a controller.  

A case where I use responder is at my front door, I have an 8 button keypad where 4 of the buttons are radio style buttons for Off/reset, Bright, Night, Late Night.   there are 4 scene's and one of those buttons is a controller for each scene, but it's also a responder in the other 3 scenes.  These are used to override the mode of the outside lighting.  If we are in night mode by time and I press bright, I need the light to turn off behind the Night button as it shifts mode, so the "night" button included as a 'responder' in the "bright" scene.

Generally tho when it's just 2 or 3 switches controlling the same load, you want them all to be controllers.

and yes have the program turn the scene on.

 

Edit to add:  I also create a scene for literally everything and always use the scene for control, that way I don't have to stop and think which I want a device or scene.   My system started with lots of 8-button controllers tho before I ever knew ISY's existed.  I make extensive use of button's and scenes, so it's just handy for me to make a scene for even the odd 1:1 switch that only controls it's own load. 

[toddhutch]

Thank you for the feedback.

That is how I'm running my house as well.  I have scenes for day toe kick lights, and night toe kick lights, set to different lighting and ramp levels. 

Is there a way you can have a scene control another scene, without using a program?

The issue I'm running into is that it seems that some of switches in the same scene are out of sync, I've not been able to track it down what causes it.  The complexity of the programs makes it quite the daunting task to reset everything and start over.  That would take a couple of days to do that I believe. (The biggest problem it happens inconsistently.) 

 

 

[PurdueGuy]

42 minutes ago, toddhutch said:

Is there a way you can have a scene control another scene, without using a program?

No.  A scene just has devices.

Sounds like comm problems, and commands from certain controllers can't reach all devices.

[toddhutch]

OK one more scene question.

 

You can have a scene that when you turn the scene on --

Devices get turned on, on to a specific level, and TURN a DEVICE OFF?

[toddhutch]

Just now, PurdueGuy said:

No.  A scene just has devices.

Sounds like comm problems, and commands from certain controllers can't reach all devices.

It does, but all of my devices are dual communication 2477D or 2477S, and all of them are close to each other.  The enclosures in the wall that they are in are plastic.

I've done a test for the PLM, and it is my second one that I replaced 5 years ago, so it's old, but no other symptoms are there.

[PurdueGuy]

Yes...just set the device level to Off/0%.

I attached part of my "Away" scene.  It shuts down the house, but leaves a path to the exits.

[toddhutch]

Holy smokes!  I can't believe I've been creating inverse scenes all this time!!!!!

One scene for the lights I want on and one for the lights I want off.   Ok this is going to simplify things once I figure this current issue out.

I confess I remember reading about this, and people talking about complex scenes, but back then Insteon was new to me, and it was over my head when I first started.

[PurdueGuy]

Just now, toddhutch said:

Holy smokes!  I can't believe I've been creating inverse scenes all this time!!!!!

One scene for the lights I want on and one for the lights I want off.   Ok this is going to simplify things once I figure this current issue out.

I confess I remember reading about this, and people talking about complex scenes, but back then Insteon was new to me, and it was over my head when I first started.

Just wait until you create just one scene, and use a variable to set the brightness levels depending on the use case.

For example: I have an upstairs hallway, which includes:

• SwitchA (connected to 1st set of lights)
• SwitchB (connected to 2nd set of lights)
• SwitchC - 3way (no load)
• SwitchD - 3way (no load)

So, when I want to change it from day mode (80%) to night mode (10%) there are a bunch of links to update.

So I have a program that sets everything to a given variable.  It makes it easy...just one program to update, and I can easily change the day mode percent based on cloud cover, etc.

[toddhutch]

Ok, I've need to go look around for shortcuts to add multiple devices to a scene with an off attribute.  Or how to set multiple items in a scene to on level off, so you don't have to do each one.

[toddhutch]

3 minutes ago, PurdueGuy said:

Just wait until you create just one scene, and use a variable to set the brightness levels depending on the use case.

For example: I have an upstairs hallway, which includes:

• SwitchA (connected to 1st set of lights)
• SwitchB (connected to 2nd set of lights)
• SwitchC - 3way (no load)
• SwitchD - 3way (no load)

So, when I want to change it from day mode (80%) to night mode (10%) there are a bunch of links to update.

So I have a program that sets everything to a given variable.  It makes it easy...just one program to update, and I can easily change the day mode percent based on cloud cover, etc.

This sounds allot what like I'm trying to do, and I've done the same with no load. We just recently finished the house, and we have no hardwired three ways switches, everything is done with 2477d's connected to load and then 2477d's with no load. 

 

Would you mind sharing some of what you've programmed?

 

What triggers the execution of the change in mode?

[PurdueGuy]

This is the program that sets all the on levels.

• $iHallwayOnLevel = On level
• $iHallway_RampRateIndex = the speed at which it gets to the on level

Other programs set the variables, and then call the following program:

Hallway Adjust - [ID 0098][Parent 0094]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        
        // Controller is ISY
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        
        // Controller is Hallway
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        
        // Controller is Hallway-Remote
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        
        // Controller is Stairway
        In 'Upstairs / Stairway' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Stairway' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Stairway' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        
        // Controller is Stairway-Remote
        In 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' Set 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        In 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' Set 'Upstairs / Stairway' To '$iHallwayOnLevel %' in '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index', No retries
        
        // Set Local On Levels & ramp rates
        Set 'Upstairs / Hallway' On Level '$iHallwayOnLevel %'
        Set 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' On Level '$iHallwayOnLevel %'
        Set 'Upstairs / Stairway' On Level '$iHallwayOnLevel %'
        Set 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' On Level '$iHallwayOnLevel %'
        Set 'Upstairs / Hallway' Ramp Rate '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        Set 'Upstairs / Hallway-Remote' Ramp Rate '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        Set 'Upstairs / Stairway' Ramp Rate '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
        Set 'Upstairs / Stairway-Remote' Ramp Rate '$iHallway_RampRateIndex Index'
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

The values currently only set based on time of day.  I haven't gotten around to redoing it based on light levels since the original Weather Module went away.