Is it time to throw in the towel

[Mustang65]

I knew the day would come where I would throw in the towel on "So Called", Smart Technology. Everyone has so called smart technology, but no one wants them to talk to each other.

Today, I believe that I have arrived at that point. Over the last few weeks, with no intervention on my part, the MS II utility room sensor started working only about 75% of the time, followed by the Half-bath MS II sensor. Kick started it again, no change. Replaced the battery with a new one, no change. Brought the ISY and the PLM down and up again, no change. The MS II sensors give the motion green light when I walk in, but ISY shows no "ON". This leads me to believe that maybe {["ANOTHER"]} PLM may be going bad. Moved the MS II to within 10' of the PLM, no change. The half-bath MS II sensor, same.  This is the 3rd PLM. If that is the case, it is about time to make some serious changes. Some of the flood sensors occasionally get a mind of their own. 

Prior to the MS II sensors, I used X10 MS16A Motion Sensors (sitting in a box in the cabinet behind me) and associated Wall Switches. Granted if you never programmed one, you needed to redo it a few times, but after a few it became second nature. Never had issues with them and I used them since the 70's Maybe it is time to take that step back from so called "SMART" technology and go with a tried and proven product of the past, that I do not have to constantly "Baby Sit"!!! and wonder what will go south next. 

I know some will say they never had any luck with X10. Granted, there were some issues, but there were work arounds. Like double or triple "ON"/"OFF" commands. Even my wife could use the X10 software (not that she would anymore) and it is still running on my very old XP laptop, that is used for SOLAR monitoring of my RV. The outside motion sensors were tied to my Arduino and the outside flood lights, before replacing them with the current MS II sensors. They always worked.

I look at Polisy and see all the interfaces being created and constant issues. To me that is good for 30 to 40 BP points (blood Pressure). I talk to my son and he bites his lower lip, because one day, in my absence his mother is going to call and say the living room lights are not coming on, I don't get the "Clothes are dry" alert on my iPhone anymore. Or the yard lights are staying on all night, probably because a rabbit somehow got in front of one of the MS II sensors. Not that she would say MS II sensor.

So, I guess the hunt is on. Looking for technology (no cloud or hub…dream on) that if I (they) ever need to pull the plug, the kitchen wall switch will still operate the kitchen ceiling light, the living room outlets will still provide power to the lamps.... I know, Insteon can do that, but the quality of Insteon REALLY sucks! Z-wave is out as the electrical boxes do not have enough room in them for the bigger switch body. House was built in the 50’s.

Time to sit down and think this one out! Maybe, just go back to the basics. Buy a $5.99 timer you plug the lamp into, a wall switch with a motion sensor built in. Clapper for some of the lights, and send all this so called “Smart Technology” I fight with constantly, to the county electronics recycle bin. Really losing interest in this.

Just blowing off steam. Wish UDI would mfr their own switches, outlets…. That would be half the battle.

[larryllix]

Did you try the disable button on the bottom of the MS?

Sent using Tapatalk

[Mustang65]

Reset to factory and reprogrammed to "On" only. Same. I have not tested the outside sensors yet. Limited mobility yet.

[mwester]

I hear you.

It's fun -- for me.  And when it works, my spouse appreciates it as well.  But... I've got a thousand things to do, work is more and more demanding, and at some point the constant never-ending struggle to keep many of the high-tech devices working is just wearing.

I stopped replacing Insteon devices with Insteon after deciding that wasn't a scaleable solution -- the ever-increasing quantity of noise filters required was one thing, but worse was the increasingly-difficult and challenging hunt for the offender whenever things stopped working.  My original set of core z-wave devices were far, far better -- but as I've built out the "gadgetry", well, the quality and the return-on-investment from some of them just isn't there.  But at least the z-wave three-way lights don't blow their brains (link tables) out periodically, which is a constant problem with the kitchen Insteon devices ("Why can't I turn off the ****** counter lights again?!!").

Node servers were fun, but the original Polyglot put a spotlight on many limitations of the ISY -- it just doesn't have what it takes to handle modern networking loads.  I tried to put in the necessary rate-limiting, but then the decision was made to switch technologies, and everything I'd worked on was thrown out.  So, I've decided to hold off on Polyglot until the Polisy replaces the ISY hardware... and aside from some experimental node servers I've coded myself, I've switched everything over to simple network resources and REST calls, all carefully coded to dodge the known challenges.  But the point of all that is to highlight yet another point of unreliability in a complex home automation system.

The latest "joy" here is that for no known reason whatsoever, the ISY has started multiplying emails.  It started a few weeks ago with some email notifications being doubled up, and has gotten steadily worse.  This afternoon I see five duplicate emails all notifying me of the same thing... it's only a matter of time before my ISP's mail server's spam filter trips and shuts my email down completely.

Meanwhile...  The dedicated computer that manages my Geo for heat and A/C has worked flawlessly for the past 5 years without any sign of a failure.  The Arduino-based micro I purpose-built to handle auto-water-shutoff continues to run... dangling from the basement ceiling is a USB connector I left on it, thinking I'd certainly need to connect to it to debug problems, reprogram it, whatever -- hasn't been touched since installed.  So, clearly it IS possible to make things work right.  And some of those things can be network-enabled, and some of them can tolerate bad power, noise, power failures, surges, and all manner of issues.  Alas, Insteon isn't one of those technologies.  The ISY -- well, there's hope there.  Clearly the ISY994i is way out-dated in both software (network stack) and hardware -- but when it finally gets ported to the Polisy hardware, that'll make a huge difference.  I sure hope that won't require Polyglot, though -- cool toy it is, but going back to the start of this thread, I'm past the "cool toy" phase, and now I want industrial-quality, rock-solid automation -- like my Geo's controller, like the micro in the backup boiler, like the thermostat.

One of the things I've found useful is a log of what's working - and what's gathering dust.  In particular, in the troublesome Insteon kitchen setup, I don't fix the link tables right away.  Rather, I'll note the issue, and see if anyone here complains.  If they don't complain, well, I'll certainly fix it eventually-- but by noting that, I've been able to find a bunch of "features" I put in that just aren't used or aren't as useful as I thought.  And they'll get removed.   Example: The "All Off" button on every KPL in the kitchen and dining area... turns out I'm the only person who ever uses that.  I can simplify a lot of scenes and eliminate a lot of links by getting rid of that!  There's a few other instances where I've actually been able to get rid of device, and put it back to a dumb everyday switch.  Wrong direction to go if you're in the "cool toy" phase, but if you're frustrated by broken not-so-cool toys, I now get a feeling of a slight victory when I put a dumb switch back in the wall!  Imagine that... I paid a lot of money to put "smart switches in, and now I'm happy to take them out and toss them in the box instead!

I'm certainly not eliminating all automation.  But I have learned that whatever I put in needs to be:
- Generally applicable to everyone in the house
- Actually useful (not a "cool toy")
- As fail-safe as possible
- And finally - it MUST have a reasonable over-ride or manual means to accomplish what the automation does.

I haven't bought an automation device since the Polisy showed up -- yet my parts box has more switches and devices in it.  And as I carefully and selectively remove "toys", my happiness is rising.  The lack of complaints implies others here are also happier.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, Mustang65 said:

Reset to factory and reprogrammed to "On" only. Same. I have not tested the outside sensors yet. Limited mobility yet.

It's not a software thing. It's one of the two hardware buttons on the bottom of the MS II. Took me a while to figure out why they stopped working. It's a MS disable toggle and it is hard not to tap them if your touch the MS body.  Can't remember what the other button one does.

[Mustang65]

50 minutes ago, larryllix said:

It's not a software thing. It's one of the two hardware buttons on the bottom of the MS II. Took me a while to figure out why they stopped working. It's a MS disable toggle and it is hard not to tap them if your touch the MS body.  Can't remember what the other button one does.

Are you talking about the "Set" and "Motion" buttons. If that is them, both sensors are no were near where anyone can touch them. They are facing up and out of the way.

[larryllix]

16 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

Are you talking about the "Set" and "Motion" buttons. If that is them, both sensors are no were near where anyone can touch them. They are facing up and out of the way.

Just a thought. I clicked mine a few times unintentionally while attempting to position those spaghetti flex mounts.

[oberkc]

I certainly understand.  Fortunately for me, my system is generally stable and reliable.  I experience very few random failures or loss of link records or things like that.  Having said this, I am not sure that I would do it if I did not find it at least a little interesting and fun.  If that ceases to be the case, I might also be done.

I can also say that the polisy and the portal is something I use and have achieved some level of integration between a greater number of devices, but I find it burdensome enough to make changes that it causes me to try to avoid them.  I certainly don't play around with it and use it only under the same conditions as mwester.   Adding devices to alexa, for example...log into portal...add device (do I add scene, or switch, or light, I don't remember and really don't care).  Sync.  Open alexa app.  Add new devices.  search.  search again (first time never works).  Hope it works (may have added it as wrong type).  Hope the keyword is not too close to something else, otherwise have to delete and go through the whole process again.  Not fun.  I must really perceive something as valuable to all before I go through those steps.  

Update...just as I finish typing this in, Alexa tells me that the lights will soon be turning off unless I ask for a delay.  I would miss that feature.  Maybe I like it more than I realize.

[asbril]

7 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

Z-wave is out as the electrical boxes do not have enough room in them for the bigger switch body

This would work for you.......

[Mustang65]

12 hours ago, asbril said:

This would work for you.......

Thanks asbril,

Well, the wife and I agree that the switch protrudes from the wall way to far and does not look good. It looks like 3/4 of an inch (19mm for those north of the border). Secondly, "Batteries"! We are looking at 14 switches, most with high usage, so the 6 month battery life is probably about right. Which means close to 48 "AA" batteries in a year and I look around and there are way too many battery devices that need replacing already.

Darn, we just took a ride to the county waste management center yesterday to get rid of 10 gallons of 2 year old gas used for the house generator and forgot to take the batteries. Oh well, most of these are OK to discard anyway.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[larryllix]

30 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

Thanks asbril,

Well, the wife and I agree that the switch protrudes from the wall way to far and does not look good. It looks like 3/4 of an inch (19mm for those north of the border). Secondly, "Batteries"! We are looking at 14 switches, most with high usage, so the 6 month battery life is probably about right. Which means close to 48 "AA" batteries in a year and I look around and there are way too many battery devices that need replacing already.

Darn, we just took a ride to the county waste management center yesterday to get rid of 10 gallons of 2 year old gas used for the house generator and forgot to take the batteries. Oh well, most of these are OK to discard anyway.

Back to the drawing board.

 

Shoot! I have three Schlage combo locks that work on 9v batteries. In 12 years since installation I have used about two batteries each and I don't buy them (Alkaline)  over $2 anymore. (Duracell became the worst). But they don't check in every 24 hours either. OTOH, they operate a mechanical lock mechanism and combo electronics with keypad lighting, on my garage entrance about 5-10 times per day.

I wonder why the same battery in an Insteon MS only lasts 8-14 months without any mechanism to move.

[asbril]

28 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

Well, the wife and I agree that the switch protrudes from the wall way to far and does not look good.

I understand your point about the switch protruding and  and working with a battery. Having all you switches working with batteries does indeed not look as a good idea. In my case this switch resolved the only location in my home where there is no neutral in the box (and basically impossible to pull a neutral from elsewhere). However, I must say that the protruding does not look bad at all (at least my view).  Good luck with your endeavors.

[io_guy]

54 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

Thanks asbril,

Well, the wife and I agree that the switch protrudes from the wall way to far and does not look good. It looks like 3/4 of an inch (19mm for those north of the border). Secondly, "Batteries"! We are looking at 14 switches, most with high usage, so the 6 month battery life is probably about right. Which means close to 48 "AA" batteries in a year and I look around and there are way too many battery devices that need replacing already.

Darn, we just took a ride to the county waste management center yesterday to get rid of 10 gallons of 2 year old gas used for the house generator and forgot to take the batteries. Oh well, most of these are OK to discard anyway.

Back to the drawing board.

 

If you just want low profile Z-Wave, go with the latest GE switch/dimmer.  Same depth as Insteon, direct connect (no marrettes required) and auto senses the load vs line wires.  

[smacbride]

I'm into year 3 with my system.  Mixture of Insteon and ZWave with Alexa for voice control, Mobilinc for iPhone.  So far I've had very few issues, except a lamp module that randomly turns on.  I've narrowed that down to the lamp module.  Other than that, very happy with my setup.

At first I was frustrated that there wasn't a decent GUI user interface for Windows, but we've become used to using Alexa so that frustration has faded.  

 

[lilyoyo1]

I couldnt imagine living without automation. Even when we travel it sucks needing to turn on/off light switches. I simply couldnt go back to the way things use to be. Whether its autonomous, 1 button control, or voice control, I will have it.....Then again, I generally dont have issues with my system. Should that ever change, I would simply move to C4 or something else. 

The only thing I can say I have issues with, is with polyglot connecting with the isy after a reboot. Some nodes do not always connect properly which causes me to log-in and restart it. Im hoping this goes away once they are combined. 

[Teken]

For me, the next generation home automation system will be via smart service panel and Insteon / Polyisy. Going this route offers extreme flexibility in the main power infrastructure while still having the options to integrate with other existing home automation hardware on the market and soon to come.

The barrier for 98% of the people is the huge initial upfront outlay in finances.

Some of the major benefits of a smart service panel are no load issues with respect to relay / dimmer. No power line / RF communications issues as the control, timers, scheduling, switching is all done at the main panel.

Security, Safety, Load Shedding are three other major reasons for me.

Someone outside stealing power from my outlet thinking it’s free?

Scheduled Disconnection . . .

Worried someone will get zapped due to a faulty power cord and don’t trust the AFCI / GFCI at the moment?

Remote Disconnected . . .

Time of Use is just killing you and the kids are sucking all the power?!?

Timed Disconnected . . .

A major storm is headed your way and don’t want to relive another lightning strike and have to replace tens of thousands of appliances & equipment?

Remote Disconnected . . .

The generator doesn’t come with a super expensive load shedding capabilities?

Schedule & Time when critical loads vs luxury loads turn on / off.

Going away on holidays and don’t want that pig of a HWT running all the time? Never mind just kill the entire house while leaving critical loads active to save energy!!

This is my future . . .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mustang65]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I couldnt imagine living without automation. Even when we travel it sucks needing to turn on/off light switches. I simply couldnt go back to the way things use to be. Whether its autonomous, 1 button control, or voice control, I will have it.....Then again, I generally dont have issues with my system. Should that ever change, I would simply move to C4 or something else. 

The only thing I can say I have issues with, is with polyglot connecting with the isy after a reboot. Some nodes do not always connect properly which causes me to log-in and restart it. Im hoping this goes away once they are combined. 

C4 looks like the ultimate way to go. I was looking at it not to long ago. Not sure it if C4 would be within my budget. Saw some on eBay (probably older models), but I stay away from eBay for ANY major purchases. REMOTE ACCESS is the number 1 priority, as so many things go wrong while away from home! More than likely all the below will not fall under one system, out of the box. Maybe a good portion of them.

Granted the main use around here is nothing spectacular:

- lights coming on just after sunset, off after 10:30PM (45 min Random),

- motion sensors to activate lights in some of the rooms, only turn them on to 25% after 10:30PM, Others are manual after 10:30PM.

- Garden watering pumps ,

- Around property outside motion sensors activate the 8 yard lights to really light up the area, should someone enter the yard area, on/off sensors for the perimeter privacy fence gates 

- Alexa -  helps with some of the lights, had to replace a lamp module and she does not like it, tried to redo the light.. no luck yet

- Flood sensors - usually OK, but a few tend to go rogue on occasion

- Connect with BrulTech GEM/Dash Box - (xBee) to send a text to my wife that the cloths are dry and she lets me know to get them, digital temperature sensors (8) (not a single issue with any of them)

- ecobee (iPhone app) temperatures, 5 rooms, Fridge, Freezer, attic, Outside temperature (not a single issue with any of them)

- Polisy - ecobee node server - no idea as to what I will do with that feature - ecobee app does it all, no idea as to what else to do with it

- SimpliSafe - Motion, glass break sensors, open/close door sensors, 2 smoke alarms, 2 flood sensors, shed door sensor (not a single issue with any of them)

- NightOwl - 16 cameras

- Arduino/Raspberry Pi - digital temperatures (DS18B20), individual security power control for each camera when needed, rain barrels water levels, city water shut-off, water pressure, water flow sensor (not a single issue with any of them)

One system out of the box to handle all this... like I will ever see that.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Mustang65 said:

C4 looks like the ultimate way to go. I was looking at it not to long ago. Not sure it if C4 would be within my budget. Saw some on eBay (probably older models), but I stay away from eBay for ANY major purchases. REMOTE ACCESS is the number 1 priority, as so many things go wrong while away from home! More than likely all the below will not fall under one system, out of the box. Maybe a good portion of them.

Granted the main use around here is nothing spectacular:

- lights coming on just after sunset, off after 10:30PM (45 min Random),

- motion sensors to activate lights in some of the rooms, only turn them on to 25% after 10:30PM, Others are manual after 10:30PM.

- Garden watering pumps ,

- Around property outside motion sensors activate the 8 yard lights to really light up the area, should someone enter the yard area, on/off sensors for the perimeter privacy fence gates 

- Alexa -  helps with some of the lights, had to replace a lamp module and she does not like it, tried to redo the light.. no luck yet

- Flood sensors - usually OK, but a few tend to go rogue on occasion

- Connect with BrulTech GEM/Dash Box - (xBee) to send a text to my wife that the cloths are dry and she lets me know to get them, digital temperature sensors (8) (not a single issue with any of them)

- ecobee (iPhone app) temperatures, 5 rooms, Fridge, Freezer, attic, Outside temperature (not a single issue with any of them)

- Polisy - ecobee node server - no idea as to what I will do with that feature - ecobee app does it all, no idea as to what else to do with it

- SimpliSafe - Motion, glass break sensors, open/close door sensors, 2 smoke alarms, 2 flood sensors, shed door sensor (not a single issue with any of them)

- NightOwl - 16 cameras

- Arduino/Raspberry Pi - digital temperatures (DS18B20), individual security power control for each camera when needed, rain barrels water levels, city water shut-off, water pressure, water flow sensor (not a single issue with any of them)

One system out of the box to handle all this... like I will ever see that.

Without a license, you'd be severely restricted with what you could do with C4. 

There really is no singular one size fits all approach with automation regardless of what you use. The more you require the more likely you'll need additional things to make it work. There's no way around that. Especially when you take into the account that these devices were never made with working together in mind. 

There's alot you can do with the ecobee nodeserver. Depending on setting, you can have it trigger certain modes immediately such as home and away vs waiting for it to happen. Depending on occupied room temperature, my ecobee will turns ceiling fans on/off. If doors or windows are open, it'll turn on/off on its own. etc. 

[larryllix]

46 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Without a license, you'd be severely restricted with what you could do with C4. 

There really is no singular one size fits all approach with automation regardless of what you use. The more you require the more likely you'll need additional things to make it work. There's no way around that. Especially when you take into the account that these devices were never made with working together in mind. 

There's alot you can do with the ecobee nodeserver. Depending on setting, you can have it trigger certain modes immediately such as home and away vs waiting for it to happen. Depending on occupied room temperature, my ecobee will turns ceiling fans on/off. If doors or windows are open, it'll turn on/off on its own. etc. 

My ecobee NS runs my humidifier. I was told incorrectly about installing a humidifier on my air handler and don;t have room to install one. ISY cycles my room humidifer based on ecobee input.

ecobee NS also runs my home/vacation variable flags in ISY which control many other cycles eg: HRV,  humidifer, outside light cycles, occupancy faking programs.

[madcodger]

I simply scaled back on automation in the most recent house. In the prior two, every switch and many outlets were automated. Now, I have only a handful that are. It has really simplified things, and I can't remember the last time I had a complaint from my wife about something not working. Getting rid of Homeseer and Insteon, and focusing on the ISY and z-wave only (with repeaters) helped considerably, as well. I have two ISYs (one for each building) and each has a RPi running polyglot, but with only a weather nodeserver. I plan to add the DSC/Envisalink nodeserver, and possibly one to control Daikin minisplits (if such a thing can be found) but then I think I'm done for a bit. Reliability has become much more important than "cool" to me in recent years, a theme that seems to appeal to many of us.

[asbril]

8 hours ago, madcodger said:

I simply scaled back on automation in the most recent house. In the prior two, every switch and many outlets were automated. Now, I have only a handful that are. It has really simplified things, and I can't remember the last time I had a complaint from my wife about something not working. Getting rid of Homeseer and Insteon, and focusing on the ISY and z-wave only (with repeaters) helped considerably, as well. I have two ISYs (one for each building) and each has a RPi running polyglot, but with only a weather nodeserver. I plan to add the DSC/Envisalink nodeserver, and possibly one to control Daikin minisplits (if such a thing can be found) but then I think I'm done for a bit. Reliability has become much more important than "cool" to me in recent years, a theme that seems to appeal to many of us.

I read this with some fascination....  My wife is entirely tech-unfriendly and, with 100 % of switches in our home being Zwave,,  I have constant fear of what will happen when I reach  my EOL. In fact, I posted UDI's support nr in the kitchen for that purpose. However, in the meantime,  knowingly (Alexa/Google Home) or unknowingly (running programs)  she makes constant use of my automation and I am  sure that even with her complaints, when occasionally something goes wrong, she would actually miss the automation, though she might not admit to it ?.

[oberkc]

6 hours ago, asbril said:

However, in the meantime,  knowingly (Alexa/Google Home) or unknowingly (running programs)  she makes constant use of my automation and I am  sure that even with her complaints, when occasionally something goes wrong, she would actually miss the automation, though she might not admit to it ?.

I think this would be true in my house, as well.

 

[Mustang65]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:54 PM, Mustang65 said:

C4 looks like the ultimate way to go. I was looking at it not to long ago. Not sure it if C4 would be within my budget. Saw some on eBay (probably older models), but I stay away from eBay for ANY major purchases. REMOTE ACCESS is the number 1 priority, as so many things go wrong while away from home! More than likely all the below will not fall under one system, out of the box. Maybe a good portion of them.

Granted the main use around here is nothing spectacular:

- lights coming on just after sunset, off after 10:30PM (45 min Random),

- motion sensors to activate lights in some of the rooms, only turn them on to 25% after 10:30PM, Others are manual after 10:30PM.

- Garden watering pumps ,

- Around property outside motion sensors activate the 8 yard lights to really light up the area, should someone enter the yard area, on/off sensors for the perimeter privacy fence gates 

- Alexa -  helps with some of the lights, had to replace a lamp module and she does not like it, tried to redo the light.. no luck yet

- Flood sensors - usually OK, but a few tend to go rogue on occasion

- Connect with BrulTech GEM/Dash Box - (xBee) to send a text to my wife that the cloths are dry and she lets me know to get them, digital temperature sensors (8) (not a single issue with any of them)

- ecobee (iPhone app) temperatures, 5 rooms, Fridge, Freezer, attic, Outside temperature (not a single issue with any of them)

- Polisy - ecobee node server - no idea as to what I will do with that feature - ecobee app does it all, no idea as to what else to do with it

- SimpliSafe - Motion, glass break sensors, open/close door sensors, 2 smoke alarms, 2 flood sensors, shed door sensor (not a single issue with any of them)

- NightOwl - 16 cameras

- Arduino/Raspberry Pi - digital temperatures (DS18B20), individual security power control for each camera when needed, rain barrels water levels, city water shut-off, water pressure, water flow sensor (not a single issue with any of them)

One system out of the box to handle all this... like I will ever see that.

As I review this list again, I asked the question, "What do we REALLY need, based on our interaction with Home Automation, Control, and Energy Management?"(with what asbril mentioned EOL)

Well, here is what I came up with

- ecobee (bare mode.... no sensors) Remote access yes
- SimpliSafe - yes (reinstall all the door/window sensors on the screen doors and perimeter gates, and Outside Motion sensors, for alerts only) remove Insteon
- City water shut off with flow meter (replace Arduino/Pi with off the shelf system)
- Garden watering pumps (replace Insteon with off the shelf system)
- Living room light control (replace with off the shelf programmable modules)
- Night Owl Security Cameras - As is - Has remote access
- BrulTech GEM/DashBox Energy Management - ??? (Initial balancing of house electrical loads completed (was like 70%-30%), not much until SOLAR gets installed)
- Flood sensors (purchase 9volt battery units with shrill noise, still have a few on the shelf) when away from home water is turned off anyway.
- 24 digital (DS18B20) temperature sensors (Remove)
- Motion sensors (trash all of them, Insteon)
- Polisy, currently sitting on the shelf with noting to do (really dread node servers) waiting for ISY to be moved to it.

Outcome:
- ecobee, wife will notice no change (to her Vacation mode = just slide the temp to 81 degrees)
- SimpliSafe, wife will notice no change
- City Water shut off, wife will notice no change
- Garden watering pumps, wife will notice no change
- Flood sensors, wife will notice no change
- 24 digital temperature sensors no longer used, wife will notice no change
- Motion sensors, WIFE WILL MOAN THAT SHE HAS TO TURN THE LIGHTS ON AND OFF NOW
- Energy Management, WIFE WILL MOAN THAT SHE DOES NOT GET NOTIFIED THAT THE CLOTHES ARE DRY
Both are acceptable and after 30 days, time needed to develop a new habit, she will not even mention it.

So what do I gain/lose by eliminating so called "Smart Technology"? No more worrying about power failures and if everything boots up properly. Trouble shooting Insteon products. No more viewing the forum to see what is broken now. Just have to replace batteries every 12 months. Wishful thinking

[asbril]

4 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

As I review this list again, I asked the question, "What do we REALLY need, based on our interaction with Home Automation, Control, and Energy Management?"(with what asbril mentioned EOL)

Well, here is what I came up with

- ecobee (bare mode.... no sensors) Remote access yes
- SimpliSafe - yes (reinstall all the door/window sensors on the screen doors and perimeter gates, and Outside Motion sensors, for alerts only) remove Insteon
- City water shut off with flow meter (replace Arduino/Pi with off the shelf system)
- Garden watering pumps (replace Insteon with off the shelf system)
- Living room light control (replace with off the shelf programmable modules)
- Night Owl Security Cameras - As is - Has remote access
- BrulTech GEM/DashBox Energy Management - ??? (Initial balancing of house electrical loads completed (was like 70%-30%), not much until SOLAR gets installed)
- Flood sensors (purchase 9volt battery units with shrill noise, still have a few on the shelf) when away from home water is turned off anyway.
- 24 digital (DS18B20) temperature sensors (Remove)
- Motion sensors (trash all of them, Insteon)
- Polisy, currently sitting on the shelf with noting to do (really dread node servers) waiting for ISY to be moved to it.

Outcome:
- ecobee, wife will notice no change (to her Vacation mode = just slide the temp to 81 degrees)
- SimpliSafe, wife will notice no change
- City Water shut off, wife will notice no change
- Garden watering pumps, wife will notice no change
- Flood sensors, wife will notice no change
- 24 digital temperature sensors no longer used, wife will notice no change
- Motion sensors, WIFE WILL MOAN THAT SHE HAS TO TURN THE LIGHTS ON AND OFF NOW
- Energy Management, WIFE WILL MOAN THAT SHE DOES NOT GET NOTIFIED THAT THE CLOTHES ARE DRY
Both are acceptable and after 30 days, time needed to develop a new habit, she will not even mention it.

So what do I gain/lose by eliminating so called "Smart Technology"? No more worrying about power failures and if everything boots up properly. Trouble shooting Insteon products. No more viewing the forum to see what is broken now. Just have to replace batteries every 12 months. Wishful thinking

This is what I do with nodeservers, mostly using Holidays Google, Harmony Hub and AVRemote :

I  created different calendars in the Google calendar for  work days, trips, national/religious holidays, days that cleaning lady comes.

In these calendars I enter a whole day event as applicable.

In ISY I created wake up programs that are enabled/disabled depending on work days or when we are on a trip.  These programs (when enabled)  switch lights on, open curtains, switch on the TV and switch these off after a set time. Other programs enable/disable  lights and sensors when the cleaning lady comes.

My Polisy also sits on a shelf.... but it is connected and works like a charm.

  

[lilyoyo1]

21 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

As I review this list again, I asked the question, "What do we REALLY need, based on our interaction with Home Automation, Control, and Energy Management?"(with what asbril mentioned EOL)

Well, here is what I came up with

- ecobee (bare mode.... no sensors) Remote access yes
- SimpliSafe - yes (reinstall all the door/window sensors on the screen doors and perimeter gates, and Outside Motion sensors, for alerts only) remove Insteon
- City water shut off with flow meter (replace Arduino/Pi with off the shelf system)
- Garden watering pumps (replace Insteon with off the shelf system)
- Living room light control (replace with off the shelf programmable modules)
- Night Owl Security Cameras - As is - Has remote access
- BrulTech GEM/DashBox Energy Management - ??? (Initial balancing of house electrical loads completed (was like 70%-30%), not much until SOLAR gets installed)
- Flood sensors (purchase 9volt battery units with shrill noise, still have a few on the shelf) when away from home water is turned off anyway.
- 24 digital (DS18B20) temperature sensors (Remove)
- Motion sensors (trash all of them, Insteon)
- Polisy, currently sitting on the shelf with noting to do (really dread node servers) waiting for ISY to be moved to it.

Outcome:
- ecobee, wife will notice no change (to her Vacation mode = just slide the temp to 81 degrees)
- SimpliSafe, wife will notice no change
- City Water shut off, wife will notice no change
- Garden watering pumps, wife will notice no change
- Flood sensors, wife will notice no change
- 24 digital temperature sensors no longer used, wife will notice no change
- Motion sensors, WIFE WILL MOAN THAT SHE HAS TO TURN THE LIGHTS ON AND OFF NOW
- Energy Management, WIFE WILL MOAN THAT SHE DOES NOT GET NOTIFIED THAT THE CLOTHES ARE DRY
Both are acceptable and after 30 days, time needed to develop a new habit, she will not even mention it.

So what do I gain/lose by eliminating so called "Smart Technology"? No more worrying about power failures and if everything boots up properly. Trouble shooting Insteon products. No more viewing the forum to see what is broken now. Just have to replace batteries every 12 months. Wishful thinking

I thought about that once too a long time ago in the houselinc days. Back then it was in its infancy. I liked things more for it's potential than what it was capable of. Even now, I see where things are and where they can go. 

I think switching from a system really depends on how invested you are in it. For example, smartphones! If you never use any of the features such as internet, maps, occasional text etc. it may be easier to go back to a dumb phone. However, if you use most of the features, trying to go backwards would be too painful. 

Even with my wife, when we moved her first words were I'll unpack, get the system up and running. I can't see her being happy at all. 

Some things we could live without such as voice control since it's not used that often. While everything can be used independent of automation, the amount of steps needed to accomplish a single task would increase dramatically. We've simply got to the point where it's become part of our life.