ThisIsTheWay Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 Can anyone suggest a great brand of top hat lights that dim nicely with Insteon. I find the ramp rate on the ones we have now frustrating. There is a delay then a slight slight flicker then they ramp. I am looking for an experience closer to incandescent. Also, a suggestion on bulbs would be great. (Do WiFi bulbs have a better ramp rate when controlled by their own controller ie Phillips hue?)
larryllix Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, uffy said: Can anyone suggest a great brand of top hat lights that dim nicely with Insteon. I find the ramp rate on the ones we have now frustrating. There is a delay then a slight slight flicker then they ramp. I am looking for an experience closer to incandescent. Also, a suggestion on bulbs would be great. (Do WiFi bulbs have a better ramp rate when controlled by their own controller ie Phillips hue?) Any bulb with an external voltate control will flicker and go out around the 8% to 15% level from my experiences. LED strips are typically controlled by a PWM (pulse width modulated) controller and can dim right down to 0.5%. Look for threads in these forums regarding MagicHome, and LEDenet, RGBW strips some of the more popular controllers. You should find aat least one thread with photos and parts lists to assemble them. I have about 20 units in my home. I love the brilliance and appearance (CRI?) of the warm white light and the colours are intense, rich, even and all available. White and RGB LEDs can be mixed in most brands, contrary to most bulbs that really suck. I have done animations with these RGBWW strip on a wedding tent ceiling in a pinwheel fashion using a RPi for software controlled via a cell phone app keyboard, via ISY Portal, through ISY, into a RPi running custom software. I love them and have them above all my kitchen cabinets, bathroom floor behind appliances, and headboard of my bed. I use the IP67 style with a completely encased in a rectangular silicone tubing, so they can be washed down when dirty or dusty. They cost a few dollar more oer 5m strip. There is a NS to control MagicHome/LEDenet strips/bulbs or use NRs directly or I use a custom software driven by NR commands to get a fast response from my 29? WiFi bulbs and strips. None of this is cloud dependent but it is router dependent. Edited September 12, 2020 by larryllix
MrBill Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, uffy said: top hat lights What is a top hat light? I'm not familiar with that term. My wife who owned a high end lighting store for many years doesn't know either.
larryllix Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) IIRC they are called "potlights" in Canada. I have heard them called many other names by Americans. Can lights? When you look at the fixture from the side it has a square box and a rim around the bottom like a tophat, like a magician, or a circus ringleader, might wear. Edited September 12, 2020 by larryllix
MrBill Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, larryllix said: IIRC they are called "potlights" in Canada. I have heard them called many other names by Americans. Can lights? When you look at the fixture from the side it has a square box and a rim around the bottom like a tophat, like a magician, or a circus ringleader, might wear. thanks. can lights, recessed can, recessed light, pot lights all familiar terms.... calling them top hats tho is new for us. @uffy bulb wise if you want to use an Insteon Dimmer I'd recommend "Phillips Warm Glow" they dim very incandescent like (getting warmer in color as they dim) and don't seem to flicker at low levels. I don't know of any recessed light with integrated bulbs that aren't cheap chinese junk, other than again Phillips, but this time Hue.
ThisIsTheWay Posted September 12, 2020 Author Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) It seems like most of these options (other than Phillips warm glow....thank you for the bulb tip!!!) would be leaving Insteon. I was going to install insteon dimmers but can’t see the point if I’m going to remove the existing led recessed lights and move to a hue system. Wouldn’t I want a different dimmer switch. Not sure how the two marry together. Edited September 12, 2020 by uffy
MrBill Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, uffy said: It seems like most of these options would be leaving Insteon. I was going to install insteon dimmers but can’t see the point if I’m going to remove the existing led recessed lights and move to a hue system. Wouldn’t I want a different dimmer switch. Not sure how the two marry together. Click the Phillips Warm Glow link in my last post. You'll be pleasantly suprised at the variety, and it's what I use with Insteaon Dimmers. 1
mwester Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 Just another vote for the Philips Warm Glo -- they're not perfect, but they're the best I've found with Insteon. More expensive than the cheap chinese junk on Amazon, but they work, they dim properly, and they mimic the color shift of an incandescent as they dim. Give them a try.
lilyoyo1 Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 I agree with the Philips warm glow. While not perfect, I haven't seen the consistency across a product line like theirs. I wouldn't use hue for standard lighting. Besides the cost of retrofitting a whole house for them, it's not worth it overall for what you'll end up with once the novelty of changing colors wears off 1
ThisIsTheWay Posted September 12, 2020 Author Posted September 12, 2020 Phillips warm glow it is! Wish I had asked sooner. Spent lots of time buying and returning bulbs.
larryllix Posted September 12, 2020 Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: I agree with the Philips warm glow. While not perfect, I haven't seen the consistency across a product line like theirs. I wouldn't use hue for standard lighting. Besides the cost of retrofitting a whole house for them, it's not worth it overall for what you'll end up with once the novelty of changing colors wears off ...and Philips Hue crapped on me. I have about $300 worth of bulbs and they cannot do green because they thought they could do green using violet and yellow...looks like an old green fluorescent tube when people hated them in the 1970s. Later Hue changed their hub and it isn't compatible anymore. I have 25 $10 Chinese (they all are...even Hues) bulbs that do white and RGB better than most other bulbs I have seen. On top of that I can turn them all on or off at once with a very slight perceptible delay and even do multicoloured animations with them. The Hues all sit in a junk box, useless now. I didn't even install thousands of Christmas lights last year and spend a whole day finding the bad LED connections, because I have 15 RGBWW bulbs around the outside of my house. One Alexa command turns on Christmas colours. Another turns on Easter colours, Canada Day, or Independence Day light colours. Edited September 12, 2020 by larryllix
lilyoyo1 Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 44 minutes ago, uffy said: Phillips warm glow it is! Wish I had asked sooner. Spent lots of time buying and returning bulbs. That's how alot of us got to where we are now with our choices
ThisIsTheWay Posted September 13, 2020 Author Posted September 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: That's how alot of us got to where we are now with our choices After trying all sorts of bulbs, I stuck to incandescent in our bedside lamps for this very reason. It’s so much nicer and more subtle when we turn them on in the middle of the night. So, I’m excited to give these Phillips a go.
larryllix Posted September 13, 2020 Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, uffy said: After trying all sorts of bulbs, I stuck to incandescent in our bedside lamps for this very reason. It’s so much nicer and more subtle when we turn them on in the middle of the night. So, I’m excited to give these Phillips a go. My 100 Watt equivalent LED bulb in my bedside lamp comes on at 10% in the middle of the night after seeing motion and only lasts at least 30 seconds. During waking hours it goes on to 70% and lasts for at least 2 minutes. When asked to via Alexa, it comes on at 100% and lasts for six hours or until I turn it off. I have only a few incandescent bulbs left so I don't worry if the come on during the day. My Gathering room has about 150 Watts of LED light. On depressing days I light the room up like an operating room. While watching TV, only select lights come on at 5% to 40%. For parties or mood lighting most of my lights turn deep colours, depending on the festive occasion. Key lights are Insteon driven 23W LED BR-40 bulbs and stay white for reading etc.. Edited September 13, 2020 by larryllix
Whitehambone Posted September 15, 2020 Posted September 15, 2020 Has anyone compared Phillips Warm Glow to Cree's Soft White? Years ago I tried about a dozen different brands and had the best luck with Cree. This was back when Cree's LED bulb was rubber coated glass with a metal heat sink base. Since then it appears they went to the solid plastic body style. Back then, I found Cree's dimmed the best and had a natural incandescent color tone when dimming. They did not dim well when a fixture had multiple bulbs or if you had several fixtures, like Top Hats. So do the Phillips Warm Glows have that same problem? I even used a Aeotec Bypass on the one fixture and it still flickers or goes out (starts to flash) at certain dim levels with a 2-wire Insteon Dimmer Switch. Maybe it is time I upgraded my LED's, I switched the house over pretty early. Perhaps the technology is better now. https://aeotec.com/z-wave-low-voltage-dimmer/
larryllix Posted September 15, 2020 Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Whitehambone said: Has anyone compared Phillips Warm Glow to Cree's Soft White? Years ago I tried about a dozen different brands and had the best luck with Cree. This was back when Cree's LED bulb was rubber coated glass with a metal heat sink base. Since then it appears they went to the solid plastic body style. Back then, I found Cree's dimmed the best and had a natural incandescent color tone when dimming. They did not dim well when a fixture had multiple bulbs or if you had several fixtures, like Top Hats. So do the Phillips Warm Glows have that same problem? I even used a Aeotec Bypass on the one fixture and it still flickers or goes out (starts to flash) at certain dim levels with a 2-wire Insteon Dimmer Switch. Maybe it is time I upgraded my LED's, I switched the house over pretty early. Perhaps the technology is better now. https://aeotec.com/z-wave-low-voltage-dimmer/ Cree became so unreliable that Home Depot took them off their shelves. I had about 5 bulbs out of twelve go bad. When I attempted to replace a chandelier full of bulbs the new ones dimmed with different curves and looked like hell. Some Cree bulbs are still in usage but they earned a bad name and many others came to the market with better pricing. I didn't know Cree still existed as a bulb producer. Edited September 15, 2020 by larryllix 1
lilyoyo1 Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Whitehambone said: Has anyone compared Phillips Warm Glow to Cree's Soft White? Years ago I tried about a dozen different brands and had the best luck with Cree. This was back when Cree's LED bulb was rubber coated glass with a metal heat sink base. Since then it appears they went to the solid plastic body style. Back then, I found Cree's dimmed the best and had a natural incandescent color tone when dimming. They did not dim well when a fixture had multiple bulbs or if you had several fixtures, like Top Hats. So do the Phillips Warm Glows have that same problem? I even used a Aeotec Bypass on the one fixture and it still flickers or goes out (starts to flash) at certain dim levels with a 2-wire Insteon Dimmer Switch. Maybe it is time I upgraded my LED's, I switched the house over pretty early. Perhaps the technology is better now. https://aeotec.com/z-wave-low-voltage-dimmer/ I like Cree bulbs... Just not with insteon. When they work, they work really well and can hang with the best of them. However, your experience will vary. I've gotten to the point where I just want to buy a bulb and be done with it. With Cree, you have to test otherwise you can get buzzing, flickering at different points,. Etc. With the amount of warm glows I've installed (different types) I've simply not had that issue. I still test of course to avoid surprises but I am able to buy with confidence. No one beats warm glows dimming effect. All things being equal, at full brightness, Cree seems better but not so much better where it's worth the hassle. When using the 2wire with less, you will have many more performance issues. It simply wasn't designed to work with leds. While people have successfully used them with LEDs, it's something you'll definitely want to thoroughly test before investing in new bulbs 1
lilyoyo1 Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, larryllix said: Cree became so unreliable that Home Depot took them off their shelves. I had about 5 bulbs out of twelve go bad. When I attempted to replace a chandelier full of bulbs the new ones dimmed with different curves and looked like hell. Some Cree bulbs are still in usage but they earned a bad name and many others came to the market with better pricing. I didn't know Cree still existed as a bulb producer. Yes, Cree still makes bulbs. They've expanded their lineup. I can't speak on Canada but HD still sells Cree in NC, Va, Fl and CA. I'd say the states but those are the only states I've bought bulbs in and saw them in stores.
Recommended Posts