yardman 49 Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Hello all: Well, it's a Saturday night, and I'm in need of some advice. I purchased three of the Inateon "In-LineLinc Relay (with Sense) Motion Sensor Floodlight" kits. I wasn't crazy about the lack of quality of the floodlight sensor assembly, but that's another story. These units are going to replace my existing X10 motion floodlights. After getting one unit installed and wired correctly (checked multiple times), I linked the unit to my KeypadLincs and ControLincs using my ISY-26. (I'm running version 2.7.5 firmware.) The ISY did everything perfectly, and I can control the floods from all the devices in the group (scene). (FYI, the KPL's were added as Controllers, and the InLineLinc w/Sense as a Responder.) Anyway, this is the behavior I'm seeing: - The lights can be turned on and off with the controllers. - If the lights are off and it is dark, the motion sensor will work properly and turn on the light, then turn it off based on the setting switch (1,5, or 10 minutes). So far, so good. - BUT, IF THE LIGHT HAS ALREADY BEEN TURNED "ON" BY ANY OF THE CONTROLLING DEVICES, and then the floodlight sensor senses motion, IT WILL SHUT THE LIGHT OFF after the set amount of motion sense time! It shouldn't work this way, but instead the light should stay on until one of the controllers turns it off, just like my X10 unit does. Motion sense should only affect the state of the light when the light has NOT been turned on by an Insteon controller. So the motion sensor is sensing the motion, and sending an "on" signal to In-LineLinc (which already has the floodlight powered), and then after the set time, the motion sensor sends an "off" signal to the In-LineLinc, which then turns off the floods. This looks to me like a programming error with the In-LineLinc? Or could there be some other reason? Many Thanks for any help.
yardman 49 Posted October 11, 2009 Author Posted October 11, 2009 I should have mentioned that my In-LineLincs w/sense are all v 5.0. I guess that there is also a v 5.1 firmware out there. Strange, because I just bought these a couple of weeks ago, so I would have thought that they would be the lastest.
nstein Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I believe that is the intended behavior; If you want to bypass the motion sensor you can do it by sending a fast on or fast off; Unfortunately I don't think ISY allows you to send fast commands directly to relay devices, but it should work from other controllers and scenes. Hope it helps, Nick
yardman 49 Posted October 11, 2009 Author Posted October 11, 2009 I believe that is the intended behavior; If you want to bypass the motion sensor you can do it by sending a fast on or fast off; Unfortunately I don't think ISY allows you to send fast commands directly to relay devices, but it should work from other controllers and scenes. Hope it helps, Nick Hello Nick: Thanks for the reply. Wow, if that's the intended behavior for a floodlight, then it is a bad behavior. With the X10 floods that I have, once you turn the floodlight on via an X10 ON command, it stays on until you turn it off. With my X10 floods, the motion sensor part only works if the light is in an X10 OFF state. I guess I'll have to call Smarthome.
fitzpatri8 Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Nick is correct--by design, the Fast On and Fast Off signals override the Sense line, while a regular on/off simply changes state until the a change on the Sense line reasserts control. This allows you to choose which behavior you want by how you flip the switch, reduces the chances of a light being inadvertently left on 24/7 because a guest turned it on, and also makes it more flexible in other applications--the ILL can be used with other devices besides a motion sensor. Try it, you'll like it!
yardman 49 Posted October 11, 2009 Author Posted October 11, 2009 Nick is correct--by design, the Fast On and Fast Off signals override the Sense line, while a regular on/off simply changes state until the a change on the Sense line reasserts control. This allows you to choose which behavior you want by how you flip the switch, reduces the chances of a light being inadvertently left on 24/7 because a guest turned it on, and also makes it more flexible in other applications--the ILL can be used with other devices besides a motion sensor. Try it, you'll like it! Thank you, I'll try it this evening after it gets dark! Funny, I couldn't find this functionality mentioned in the Quick Start Guide or the Manual for the ILL w/Sense (2475S2). Did SmartHome document this functionality anywhere? If so, could you share that with me? I don't know if Michel K. monitors this forum or not, so I may have to post this in one of the other forums to request that UDI add the Fast On functionality for this product to the ISY units. I have my floodlights on ISY timed programs, so normally I wouldn't be using an Insteon device to turn the floods on and off.
yardman 49 Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Update: Thanks Nick & Tom! I found that even though the ISY does not allow a "Fast ON" to be sent directly to the ILLR W/Sense, I could set a timed event that called out Fast ON for the entire "scene", which consists of the ILLRWS, a couple of Controlincs, and some KeypadLincs. This approached worked great! The ISY successfully sent the Fast ON signal to turn my floods on, and the Insteon flood functioned "properly", with the ILLRWS "ignoring" the motion sense signal. Perfect! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, guys! Now I'll just have to train the family to use the "Fast ON" double-button press when they are turning the floods on manually. I guess that I still wish that SmartHome had made the Fast ON behavior to be the "default" behavior. When would it be useful to have it behave in the current default mode?? Sort of reminds me of the early ToggleLinc relays: when the power went off to the house and then came back on, the relays only (not the dimmers) would come up in the "ON"state, even if they were OFF prior to the power failure. I believer this behavior was stopped in later versions. But it does make me want to ask, "whatever were they thinking"?? Anyway, thanks so much for your suggestion! And if you also can direct me to where this functionality is documented in SmartHome's literature, that would be another helpful bit of advice. Best wishes,
yardman 49 Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Hello all: I finally found the documentation about the "Fast ON" functionality of the ILLRWS. SH doesn't have a PDF Manual for the 2475s2, just a Wiki based manual. Buried in the section on "Linking..." is the following: Temporarily Disable Sense FeatureIn-LineLinc w/ Sense contains a feature which allows you to temporarily disable the sense feature, meaning In-LineLinc will not send any INSTEON commands regardless of changes in sensor state. A common use for this feature is when In-LineLinc is setup to turn several outside lights on and off when motion is detected, however you might be working or entertaining outside and you want to the lights to stay on, even if no motion is detected. The following INSTEON Controllers are capable of utilizing this In-LineLinc feature: KeypadLinc RemoteLinc ControLinc SwitchLinc HouseLinc 2 (Use "Fast On" or "Fast Off" under direct control) To temporarily disable In-LineLinc's sense feature, simply double tap (press twice quickly) any button controlling In-LineLinc from one of the above types of INSTEON Controllers. In-LineLinc will stay in its current state until it controlled again from an INSTEON Controller via a single tap. I figured that it was worth posting it here for the benefit of others. Best wishes,
Brian H Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Yes the newer modules and later revisions of older modules. Are only on the Smarthome Wiki. I do like PDF manuals myself.
TJF1960 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks for posting that info yardman 49. I glanced thru both the PDFs and the wiki last night and missed that information. I agree with Brian H, I like the PDF manuals better also. Tim
yardman 49 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks for posting that info yardman 49. I glanced thru both the PDFs and the wiki last night and missed that information..... Tim Hello Tim: Tom also tipped me off to another feature: FASTOFF will turn the floodlights off, and force them to stay off (again, ignores the sense line, just like FASTON). This is perfectly rational behavior, but I did not think of it. So this functionality will be usefull when the family wants to gather around the firepit at night. I can just send a FASTOFF to the floods, and they will stay off when we walk around in the backyard. Sweeeettt! Best wishes,
Michel Kohanim Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Hi Tom, thanks. Hi Frank, the only reason I am hesitant is that Relays do not really have any On Level so Fast On/Fast Off is going to cause confusion especially if it's added in the programs. Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to add Fast On/Fast Off to relays? With kind regards, Michel
yardman 49 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Hi Tom, thanks. Hi Frank, the only reason I am hesitant is that Relays do not really have any On Level so Fast On/Fast Off is going to cause confusion especially if it's added in the programs. Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to add Fast On/Fast Off to relays? With kind regards, Michel Hello Michel: I would think that a note could be put in the Wiki manual explaining that FASTON and FASTOFF have no functionality for most Insteon relay products. That should clear up any confusion if the buttons were added to the relays GUI. Certainly I don't see how having the buttons there could break anything. Someone would just try it, and then say, "hey, that doesn't seem to make any difference". So no harm would be done. But if SH adds (or already has added) some "alternate" functionality tied to FASTON and FASTOFF relay commands in future products, the buttons would already be there in the ISY GUI. That's my 2 cents.
TJF1960 Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Tom also tipped me off to another feature: FASTOFF will turn the floodlights off, and force them to stay off (again, ignores the sense line, just like FASTON). Hi Frank, Thanks for the tip. I had wondered if a fast off would disable the flood lites but hadnt had time to re-read the wiki. It is a nice feature being able to manually disable the motion from turning the lites off and on! I like it! Tim
fitzpatri8 Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 So far as I can tell, relays that don't feature Sense simply respond to a FastOn or FastOff the same as they would to a direct On or Off command.
TJF1960 Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Hi Tom, thanks. Hi Frank, the only reason I am hesitant is that Relays do not really have any On Level so Fast On/Fast Off is going to cause confusion especially if it's added in the programs. Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to add Fast On/Fast Off to relays? With kind regards, Michel Hello Michel: I would think that a note could be put in the Wiki manual explaining that FASTON and FASTOFF have no functionality for most Insteon relay products. That should clear up any confusion if the buttons were added to the relays GUI. Certainly I don't see how having the buttons there could break anything. Someone would just try it, and then say, "hey, that doesn't seem to make any difference". So no harm would be done. But if SH adds (or already has added) some "alternate" functionality tied to FASTON and FASTOFF relay commands in future products, the buttons would already be there in the ISY GUI. That's my 2 cents. Hi Michel, Frank beat me to it. That is exactly my feeling as well. The only other thing I could add is that the fast on / fast off is a function of the ILL and perhaps if for no other reason shouldn’t it be added? But you and UDI are much more involved with and have much more experience with the ISY than I, so my vote is, do what you think best. As always thanks for a great system!!!! Tim
Michel Kohanim Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Hi Guys, Thanks. We'll add Fast On/Fast Off to relays. With kind regards, Michel
yardman 49 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Posted October 13, 2009 Hi Guys, Thanks. We'll add Fast On/Fast Off to relays. With kind regards, Michel Many thanks, Michel! As it always has been, your company continues to set the bar for customer service! Best wishes,
Michel Kohanim Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 My pleasure Frank. It's already done and should be in the 2.7.7 release ( http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=930 ) With kind regards, Michel
yardman 49 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Posted October 14, 2009 My pleasure Frank. It's already done and should be in the 2.7.7 release ( http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=930 ) With kind regards, Michel Great news! Does that also mean that when creating a program that directly uses a relay device, that the "FASON/FASTOFF" commands will now also appear in the action drop down? Thanks!
Michel Kohanim Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Hi Frank, YES. With kind regards, Michel My pleasure Frank. It's already done and should be in the 2.7.7 release ( http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=930 ) With kind regards, Michel Great news! Does that also mean that when creating a program that directly uses a relay device, that the "FASON/FASTOFF" commands will now also appear in the action drop down? Thanks!
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