Adding Multiple Devices to program

[PB11]

Hello All

Wondering if anyone knows of a quicker way of adding multiple devices to a "Then" or "Else" in a program.

I'm creating programs for whole house and have over 72 devices..

[lilyoyo1]

10 minutes ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Hello All

Wondering if anyone knows of a quicker way of adding multiple devices to a "Then" or "Else" in a program.

I'm creating programs for whole house and have over 72 devices..

I have all off scenes for each room. I simply create a program that turns each scene off 1 at a time with a 1 sec wait in between. 

I would not do a program for each individual device. Your isy will be busy until its finished. You're better off creating a scene and adding all devices to that and turning that scene on/off. 

I've found some devices will get missed when trying to do a large amount so I would break it up to 

[MrBill]

4 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Hello All

Wondering if anyone knows of a quicker way of adding multiple devices to a "Then" or "Else" in a program.

I'm creating programs for whole house and have over 72 devices..

Sometimes I copy a similar program, fix the name and then update the devices.   For example I have half dozen plus almost identical programs so that I can set dimming levels of certain scenes via Alexa.  It's faster for me to copy and edit than it is to recreate.    I also try to do as many things as i possibly can via scene before program (I have an ungodly number of 8 button KPL's tho too), but if the functionality can't be achieved scene then it's a program or combo scene/program.

(I was on a long drive this morning and your project came to mind and I wondered how it was going, glad to see you back in the forum.)

[PB11]

Hi Gents

Project is on going. Couldn't help myself once I had it up and running to then bounce back to mobilinc for further testing.

Mostly because I really like the ability to view status of things on a mobile device while making changes. I first confirmed with Micheal that I could bounce between the two without much effort or loss of data/programming.

I'm finding i'm hitting a few bumps. One is with terminology.

When I had my Insteon Hub with Alexa setup, it was much more forgiving.

For example I could say "Alexa, Night Kitchen" in my previous setup and it would trigger the routine with scene "Night Kitchen". 

With the ISY hosting the scene and Alexa triggering it, I'm forced to say " Turn on Night Kitchen".  I find in my house simplicity results in uptake.

 

Any way, on a different topic, I'm wondering if either could offer some thoughts on the following. 

Attempting to change light levels based on timing. Have created the following program but have no luck with it applying during the programmed times.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

[larryllix]

46 minutes ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Hi Gents

Project is on going. Couldn't help myself once I had it up and running to then bounce back to mobilinc for further testing.

Mostly because I really like the ability to view status of things on a mobile device while making changes. I first confirmed with Micheal that I could bounce between the two without much effort or loss of data/programming.

I'm finding i'm hitting a few bumps. One is with terminology.

When I had my Insteon Hub with Alexa setup, it was much more forgiving.

For example I could say "Alexa, Night Kitchen" in my previous setup and it would trigger the routine with scene "Night Kitchen". 

With the ISY hosting the scene and Alexa triggering it, I'm forced to say " Turn on Night Kitchen".  I find in my house simplicity results in uptake.

 

Any way, on a different topic, I'm wondering if either could offer some thoughts on the following. 

Attempting to change light levels based on timing. Have created the following program but have no luck with it applying during the programmed times.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

I don't think you want (next day). 1:00 AM and 7:30 AM are likely the same day.

You may want Wait 5-10 seconds between each Insteon setting. It takes a while to rewrite the EPROMS in each device and ISY will stack up the waiting list on the Insteon comm protocol. I like a slightly longer ramp on middle of the night lights so it doesn't shock the eye so much.

Ohhh and I haven't found an LED or CFL bulb yet, that will do anything under about 9-12%.

[MrBill]

3 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

For example I could say "Alexa, Night Kitchen" in my previous setup and it would trigger the routine with scene "Night Kitchen".

I have a few cases where saying "Turn on" just doesn't make sense.  For example switching video input between cable box and AppleTV.   There is a method!!  Create an Alexa routine with just one action.   Using this method I can Customize exactly what I say to Alexa and she executes the action required to do that.   I say "Alexa, Apple TV" and she instead Turns On a program that does that (via Harmony hub).

3 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Any way, on a different topic, I'm wondering if either could offer some thoughts on the following. 

Attempting to change light levels based on timing. Have created the following program but have no luck with it applying during the programmed times.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I suspect @larryllix hit the nail on the head, the (next day) logic is causing it to not run as expected.   To add to what he said tho, proper us of "next day" is when the schedule crosses midnight.   If the start time was 11PM you would want 7:30AM (next day), but 1 AM to 7:30 (next day) is a period longer than 24 hours.

[PB11]

Nice pickup. I think I originally. had it start at 11:30pm, but failed to change the next day.

Unfortunately still no luck. The Hallway for example, which is a 3 way switch with all 3 being controllers continues to power on 100%. Image attached with changes to program.

On a side note, a strange thing which happened when changing the on levels and ramp speeds as recommended, my program turned yellow and the error stated out of memory.

I'm guessing this is my sd card? It thought it was a 128GB, but I will need to check to make sure.

Appreciate you taking the time to consider this stuff.

[lilyoyo1]

For scenes you must choose adjust scene

[PB11]

Ok, further to my above.

I don't think i understand the functionality of the "adjust scene"  options.

For example my Hallway Scene has 3 switches and 6 pot lights. west is load for 3 pots on the west side, east switch is load for 3 pots on east side of hall. Mid allows guests to control hall from outside their bedroom and is only linked to the other two.

When creating a program for late night light levels, and using the "adjust scene" in my then statements, I've tried using both the Hallway Scene and individual switches as the controller. Neither give me what I would expect.

The end result is the switch that is activated turns on all pots with the load pots on at adjusted levels, and the non load pots on at defaults levels(brighter). Not sure this is all that clearly explained.

If i look at the scene it shows it has been adjusted, and when activated from Admin console functions with adjusted levels.

 

[oberkc]

27 minutes ago, PeterBarker11 said:

I don't think i understand the functionality of the "adjust scene"  options.

In 5.x software, the construct is to define responder response to controller commands:

in "room/controller device" set "room/responder device" to xx% in yy time.

In one of your statements "in 'master closer / master closet' set 'master closet / closet' to 10% in 2.0 seconds" I expect the result to be that, between 1am and 7:30am, pressing the switch 'master closet' to be that the switch 'closet' goes to 10%.  

What do you expect to happen?  What is happening?

[lilyoyo1]

56 minutes ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Ok, further to my above.

I don't think i understand the functionality of the "adjust scene"  options.

For example my Hallway Scene has 3 switches and 6 pot lights. west is load for 3 pots on the west side, east switch is load for 3 pots on east side of hall. Mid allows guests to control hall from outside their bedroom and is only linked to the other two.

When creating a program for late night light levels, and using the "adjust scene" in my then statements, I've tried using both the Hallway Scene and individual switches as the controller. Neither give me what I would expect.

The end result is the switch that is activated turns on all pots with the load pots on at adjusted levels, and the non load pots on at defaults levels(brighter). Not sure this is all that clearly explained.

If i look at the scene it shows it has been adjusted, and when activated from Admin console functions with adjusted levels.

 

In your program you are changing the individual devices vs the scene itself. By changing the individual devices as you are, you are changing their behavior locally when manually controlled. The signal that goes out to the main switch is still for the original level. 

The adjust scene does just that. It adjusts the scene so that when one of the non load devices is manually pushed, the signal that goes out is the new configuration

[PB11]

Ok. Learning how to interact with this quote window. Love that you can split the quote.Fun, and a much easier way to communicate a point.?

Made some edits to program mostly due to some clarity I'm gaining. I realize I don't need to define the settings for "Else" when all i want are defaults.

2 hours ago, oberkc said:

In 5.x software, the construct is to define responder response to controller commands:

Sorry, I just can't quite grasp this. What if in my scene there are 3 controllers i.e a 3 way switch all controllers of 6 pot lights.

the west controls power to the west 3 pots, and east switch control power to 3 east pots. I have my scene set that all 6 are one light.

The east and west are what i have called "Load" switches, not sure if this is accurate as I've seen the term in the Admin Console. I assumed this identified the switch which controlled power load.

The switch that is pressed becomes the controller and the other 2 are responders. Correct? And so it goes depending on the switch which is pressed. My assumption was that the levels associated with the scene applied to all within the scene never mind if its the controller or responder. 

Quote

in "room/controller device" set "room/responder device" to xx% in yy time.

What happens when Room/controller device is part of the same scene as responder device?

Quote

In one of your statements "in 'master closer / master closet' set 'master closet / closet' to 10% in 2.0 seconds" I expect the result to be that, between 1am and 7:30am, pressing the switch 'master closet' to be that the switch 'closet' goes to 10%.  

"Master closet" is a scene with  "closet" switch in it. I'm feeling like I'm missing something here.

 

Quote

What do you expect to happen?  What is happening?

I'm expecting the adjusted scene settings to apply between hours of 1 am and 7am.

During these times, when I look at the scene, it has adjusted. When I press the switch in the closet it turns on to defaults

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

In your program you are changing the individual devices vs the scene itself. By changing the individual devices as you are, you are changing their behavior locally when manually controlled.

Ok. As I've been doing this, I have just realized that from the admin console, the program is actually rewriting the local switch each day at 1am, with 10 seconds between. Interesting. I hadn't realized this.

Feels like a bit of a revelation. ?

Quote

The signal that goes out to the main switch is still for the original level. 

How is this accounted for when I want the lights the main switch is controlling to fall within the late night program?

 

Quote

The adjust scene does just that. It adjusts the scene so that when one of the non load devices is manually pushed, the signal that goes out is the new configuration

Maybe what I'm attempting to accomplish isn't possible from this approach?

 

My apologies to be so slow on the uptake. Your patience is very much appreciated.

[PB11]

Sorry, part of my confusion is due to the "adjust scene", "controller" drop down options are different when there is only a single switch when compared to a multi switch.

The above images show that in my multi switch "Controller" drop down for "adjust scene" both the scene and the switches are options. 

In the single switch "adjust scene" only the scene is an option. I'm not comprehending something here.

[PB11]

Wonder if my grouping and naming approach might be causing some issues.

[oberkc]

Quote

Sorry, I just can't quite grasp this. What if in my scene there are 3 controllers i.e a 3 way switch all controllers of 6 pot lights.

Don’t forget that, with the ISY, controllers are, by default, also responders.

If you have three switches in a scene, and two of those have loads connected, and you want all three switches to reflect the reduced levels in late night, you will have to create nine “adjust scene” commands...three for eac of the three switches, including one for each switch where the controller and responder are the same devices.

In addition to the three controller switches, the “scene” option is for when the ISY (such as via program) triggers the scene. Consider the ISY a fourth controller device.

[MrBill]

 

Let's hit the reverse button for a minute and backup and review setting up scenes in general. 

Let's assume that we have Switch A, Switch B, and Switch C.  and the light it controls which is physically controlled by the Red lead of switch A.

Those switches are each added to the ISY as Devices.  Then we add all 3 devices to a Scene, typically in this case all 3 switches are added as "Controllers".   In it's default state all 3 of these "Controllers" (of the scene) have 100% brightness. 

Now that the scene is built we actually have the ability to adjust the scene attributes of these controllers so that they do different things when operated manually.  Switch A might be set to 100% brightness, Switch B might be set with a longer ramp rate and 50% brightness, and switch C as a controller might be 80% brightness.  There is also a 4th controller, the ISY itself (or "the scene" as another poster is suggesting, in anycase the root level of the scene, not one of it's "controller" switches) so for this example lets set that scene attribute to 75% brightness.  When these scene attributes are set the admin console writes LINKS to each of the switches.  (You can view these in the admin console by selecting Tools > Diagnostics > Show Device Links table.)

The way switches are "linked" actually allows Insteon to work when the controller doesn't.  That is you can unplug your ISY/Modem (or other controller such as Insteon hub) and Switch A, B and C are still "linked" and still work.

So let's review the "linking" we've done so far:

• Turning on Switch A manually turns the light on to 100% brightness.
• Turning on Switch B manually turns the light on 50% brightness with a long ramp rate.
• Turning on Switch C manually turns the light on 80% brightness.
• In the admin console, selecting the scene in the tree and pressing on sets the light at 75% brightness.

Once all the of the above is understood we can move to programs.  In many case's we will simply select "Your devices", drop to the bottom of the list and find the "scene" for this group of switches and turn it ON (or OFF).  In the case of our example above this would set 75% brightness.  This is good for simple time based controls etc. where the brightness we want is always 75%. 

At the next level of programing we may want to "Adjust scene"... this is actually rewriting the links stored in the switches, so now using adjust scene we could rewite the controllers to all set 40% brightness.  This would take 4 program lines.  One to rewrite the Switch A controller links, then the Switch B controller links, then the Switch C controller links, and finally the Scene or root level which is what happens when the ISY itself acts as the controller.  NOTE: "Adjust Scene" does not actually change the status or brightness of the light, instead it adjusts what happens when one of those controllers controls the scene.  There for if the intent of the program is to actually turn on or off a light you would adjust scene first, then turn it on.     The usage for adjust scene is typically when you want things to happen differently night and day.    Also note that at the start of this paragraph i used an example where we used 4 program lines to re-write 4 controllers.   In reality we might have just changed one of them, such as the root level of the scene... leaving the attributes for switch A, B, C alone.

Not to confuse things, but another technique is to have multiple similar scenes.  I'll leave expanding upon that until it comes up tho, I only mention it because when it comes to Insteon and ISY there are usually multiple ways to attack the same issue...(like I ended another explanation)... it JUST DEPENDS.

 

 

 

 

 

[oberkc]

3 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Sorry, part of my confusion is due to the "adjust scene", "controller" drop down options are different when there is only a single switch when compared to a multi switch.

The above images show that in my multi switch "Controller" drop down for "adjust scene" both the scene and the switches are options. 

In the single switch "adjust scene" only the scene is an option. I'm not comprehending something here.

Is the single switch defined as a controller or responder.  The controller drop-down would not show devices that are defined only as scene reponders.

[PB11]

Is this closer to what's required?

Change Scene first x 3 for each controller, then each controller for other 2 responding switches.

Seems like a lot of rewriting to the nodes. Does this take a toll?

Would I be better to find an approach through Alexa and an ISY scene? 

I've just been trying to centralize everything to the isy.

 

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Is this closer to what's required?

Change Scene first x 3 for each controller, then each controller for other 2 responding switches.

Seems like a lot of rewriting to the nodes. Does this take a toll?

Would I be better to find an approach through Alexa and an ISY scene? 

I've just been trying to centralize everything to the isy.

Other than the hallway lights, I don't know how many devices are in each, but this looks about right for the hallway lights, yes.

Regarding rewriting to the devices, this would be two each day, or about 750 per year.  I don't know how many R/W cycles that memory can take, but I would guess that this is  nothing to worry about.  Ten years is 7500 cycles...this does not sound like a lot to me.

Would alexa be better?  Only you can determine this.  If your normal mode for lighting control is switches (this is certainly the case in my house) then alexa is not going to be much help.  Besides, would not voice commands risk waking someone up?  A separate scene triggered by a program for late night could help, but the lights would likely come on to full brightness before dimming to the late-night scene.  If that does not create a problem, then this is a viable option as well.  If this were me, I would use the approach that you are currently taking.

[lilyoyo1]

41 minutes ago, oberkc said:

 

Would alexa be better?  Only you can determine this.  If your normal mode for lighting control is switches (this is certainly the case in my house) then alexa is not going to be much help.  Besides, would not voice commands risk waking someone up?  A separate scene triggered by a program for late night could help, but the lights would likely come on to full brightness before dimming to the late-night scene.  If that does not create a problem, then this is a viable option as well.  If this were me, I would use the approach that you are currently taking.

I agree with Oberkc on this one. Is someone really going to tell Alexa to turn on lights at 2 in the morning? 

I have a few things that I adjust the schedule on in areas that a person may need light. However, late night, my motion sensors kick in to turn lights on/off automatically. From the moment someone gets out of bed, a light will turn on to aide them without blinding them. No voice or switch needed.