Button Scenes

[tbe]

This is a big problem for me. I want to be able change button status on multiple keypads that control a common scene to accurately display current status. In HouseLinc2 software you can do this directly in the scene programming so that the commands are resident in the devices. Because only the load button is available in the scene to set “ON†or “OFF†you can only program a non load button to turn “ON†in a given scene. Because of this you have to create "button scenes" that tell a group of buttons to turn “OFF†because these no load buttons (KeyLink dimmer buttons B-H) cannot be programmed to do this within the initial scene. This adds a ton of complexity to the programming task as well as making the ISY work a whole lot harder than it needs to. The Insteon devices have the internal ability when a button is turned "ON" to send an "OFF" command to any button on a different keypad. This is a huge problem on more sophisticated installations. You should not have to create "button scenes" to accomplish this. You can do this with HouseLinc2 with out having to create "if / then" programming to accomplish it. I do however really like the stand alone processor strategy that the ISY99 brings to the equation. I believe this is well within the theoretical capabilities of the ISY99 and should be implemented. Creating “button scenes†and required programming is a royal pain in the arse and requires the ISY99 to work a lot harder than it needs to. All that needs to happen is an “ON/OFF†option on non load KeyLinc buttons that are responders. My button scenes for whatever reason have been somewhat unreliable working about 70-80% of the time. Which is a whole other issue; see thread “INSTEON Communication Issues - I am having real problems getting my system to play nice

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi tbe,

 

I am not sure I understand what you mean.

 

You can add the load and non-load button of the same KPL in the same scene. Now, there will be two cases:

1. The scene is activated by a controller in the scene, in which case INSTEON protocol should guarantee the correct status (ISY is out of the picture at this point)

2. The scene is activated by ISY in which case, as #1, the correct status of the buttons should also be guaranteed

 

The main question is: in what scenario does this not work?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

This is a big problem for me. I want to be able change button status on multiple keypads that control a common scene to accurately display current status. In HouseLinc2 software you can do this directly in the scene programming so that the commands are resident in the devices. Because only the load button is available in the scene to set “ON” or “OFF” you can only program a non load button to turn “ON” in a given scene. Because of this you have to create "button scenes" that tell a group of buttons to turn “OFF” because these no load buttons (KeyLink dimmer buttons B-H) cannot be programmed to do this within the initial scene. This adds a ton of complexity to the programming task as well as making the ISY work a whole lot harder than it needs to. The Insteon devices have the internal ability when a button is turned "ON" to send an "OFF" command to any button on a different keypad. This is a huge problem on more sophisticated installations. You should not have to create "button scenes" to accomplish this. You can do this with HouseLinc2 with out having to create "if / then" programming to accomplish it. I do however really like the stand alone processor strategy that the ISY99 brings to the equation. I believe this is well within the theoretical capabilities of the ISY99 and should be implemented. Creating “button scenes” and required programming is a royal pain in the arse and requires the ISY99 to work a lot harder than it needs to. All that needs to happen is an “ON/OFF” option on non load KeyLinc buttons that are responders. My button scenes for whatever reason have been somewhat unreliable working about 70-80% of the time. Which is a whole other issue; see thread “INSTEON Communication Issues - I am having real problems getting my system to play nice

[Michel Kohanim]

tbe,

 

Darrell mentioned that he had spoken to you and clarified what was going on. What you are looking for is explicitly and intentionally disabled in the GUI since older KPLs did not support changing the on level for KPL button on the link record. The theory is precisely the same as any other INSTEON device so all we have to do is to re-enable this feature in the GUI.

 

Although I am extremely worried that this feature would cause support issues for customers with older KPLs, however if you wish - and you do not mind playing with an alpha firmware - please contact us (support@universal-devices.com) and I'll send you the firmware with the feature enabled.

 

Please note that for same-device mutual exclusivity you must use the Mutually Exclusive button on the configuration page.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[cnutco]

When you say "Older KPL's", just how old or what versions are you talking about?

 

Lee

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Lee,

 

I have checked this feature with both 2C and 2D and neither one work. If you have newer version, you can try:

http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.7.7/admin.jnlp

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

When you say "Older KPL's", just how old or what versions are you talking about?

 

Lee

[tbe]

Can't this feature be keylinc version specific so that it would only be available to the device versions to which it might apply?

[yardman 49]

Can't this feature be keylinc version specific so that it would only be available to the device versions to which it might apply?

 

Hello Michel:

 

I am also a little worried about implementing a change like this. IF if were version specific that would be better.

 

TBE:

 

I use what I call "cleanup" programs for two reasons. I believe that one is what you are refering to in this post. Yes, it creates more work for the the ISY, and I wish that the capability resided in the Insteon KPLs themselves, as you mentioned.

 

But there is a second type of "cleanup" that I use through ISY programming. This one is for situations where I have mutliple devices in a scene that are controlled through a single KPL button. In those cases I may have 4 lights being controlled by a single KPL button. What should happen if someone turns off just one of those lights in that scene locally. Do I want the KPL button controlling that scene to go off? For me, in some case, no.

 

For these cases, I write a couple of ISY programs that monitor the status of the lighting devices for those scenes. When all of the devices have been turned off, only then do I want the status of the controlling KPL button to go "off". And if someone turns on just one of the buttons in that "scene" locally, I want the scene controller KPL button status to go "on".

 

A good example of this is the button that I have in my kitchen that controls my basement lights. I can know if any of the basement lights has been turned on (or left on) by looking at the KPL button status in my kitchen, due to my ISY programs that monitor this.

 

I'm curious if HomeLinc 2 can program this capability into Insteon devices apart from writing an event triggered program?

 

Best wishes,

[fitzpatri8]

[

A good example of this is the button that I have in my kitchen that controls my basement lights. I can know if any of the basement lights has been turned on (or left on) by looking at the KPL button status in my kitchen, due to my ISY programs that monitor this.

 

I'm curious if HomeLinc 2 can program this capability into Insteon devices apart from writing an event triggered program?

 

No, the KeypadLinc buttons are simple on/off devices. For conditional logic like that, you need an ISY or an automation application like HAL or Girder.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks so very much for the input.

 

tbe, did the link work and allow you to set the on/off levels for the buttons? If so, then we can surely add conditional logic to enable this feature only for those KPL version that support it.

 

The main question is whether or not any of the new KPLs actually support this feature.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[unispeed]

Michel,

Are you saying that when a scenes is created between a KPL and a controller that if the light is turned on locally that the status will change state (off to on or on to off) I would really like to know how to do that without using ISY.....

Thanks MarK

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mark,

 

You can already do that with Mutual Exclusive buttons for buttons on the same KPL.

 

The only thing we are talking about here is that if you have a controller, you would be able to have it selectively control the status of KPL non-load buttons. So, you might want an On to turn OFF a button.

 

I have not been able to get this to work with our KPL versions. I am trying to figure out given the URL above, has anyone been able to accomplish this and with what version of KPLs.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Michel,

Are you saying that when a scenes is created between a KPL and a controller that if the light is turned on locally that the status will change state (off to on or on to off) I would really like to know how to do that without using ISY.....

Thanks MarK

[tbe]

Bumbedy, bumb, bump, bumb,

 

Yo Michel,

 

It sounds like your fans might be weighing in. Get on it Man!

 

 

tbe

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi tbe,

 

Good to hear back from you. I specifically made a build for you to test and explicitly asked for your input but one never arrived. As such, I reverted all the changes. It would've been great if you had actually tested the solution to let us know if it worked with your KPLs.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Bumbedy, bumb, bump, bumb,

 

Yo Michel,

 

It sounds like your fans might be weighing in. Get on it Man!

 

 

tbe

[tbe]

Hi Michel,

 

I have not been checking in as often as I should. I am sorry i did not get to try the build that included button status control. I still think this would be good thing.

 

tbe

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi tbe,

 

Unfortunately we are not in the middle of getting 2.7.7 alpha out and this would have to wait. But, it would be great if you could send me an email so that I can contact you directly once we have this feature ready for you to test (support@universal-devices.com).

 

With kind regards,

Michel