Insteon being discontinued?

[Blackbird]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It amazes me how people can find a post that was last commented on weeks ago but completely miss everything that was subsequently stated which contradicts what they are stating.

As @MrBill stated, support is outsourced and the chances of them knowing any of insteon's internal workings are absolutely nil. Even when they had in house Customer support they were notoriously tight-lipped. Unless someone was in management or was close to someone in management who told them, they weren't provided much information themselves. 

Besides that, In addition to new investments in their websites, they have a completely new line announced. Definitely not stuff a company going out of business imminently does

It amazes me how you seem so bothered by me stating what I heard are you seriously that offended?  Especially that you have to make a second reply about how it annoys you.  LOL.  Sorry no where in this thread did I see anyone talk about the quote I heard.  Relax

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, Blackbird said:

It amazes me how you seem so bothered by me stating what I heard are you seriously that offended?  Sorry no where in this thread did I see anyone talk about the quote I heard.  Relax

I'm not offended. You're just posting incorrect information weeks later that has been shown to be blatantly false at this time

[Blackbird]

Maybe you should read my message when i am saying its not about the discontinued product but more about what was said by Insteon.  What was said by Insteon was 100% correct and accurate.  Yes Mr. Bill makes a good point and is probably right but no need to be a jerk about it.  Unless you own Insteon you have no idea if they are going out of business or not.  You are just speculating like anyone else.  I didnt create this thread so I guess Im not the only one worried about my investment.

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

Maybe you should read my message when i am saying its not about the discontinued product but more about what was said by Insteon.  What was said by Insteon was 100% correct and accurate.  Yes Mr. Bill makes a good point and is probably right but no need to be a jerk about it.  Unless you own Insteon you have no idea if they are going out of business or not.  You are just speculating like anyone else.  I didnt create this thread so I guess Im not the only one worried about my investment.

Unlike you, for the most part i don't have to speculate. When I do, i say so. In the end, the information you've tried to give has already been shown to be blatantly false, yet you want to insist otherwise. Especially when contradictory information is right in front of you. As I said, you dig up a 2 week old post to provide information when the last 3 pages of this post all pertain to them releasing new product (which I've talked about since last year)

[Blackbird]

I used this post instead of creating a new one on the same topic.  Once again I was just relaying what they told my uncle.  take it for what its worth.  Ignore it , take it with a grain of salt or be a bit polite and give your opinion.  Just stop being a rude jerk about it.

[silverton38]

On 7/13/2021 at 6:28 PM, Teken said:

I believe people should just enjoy what they have and migrate when and if they can to whatever. Speaking for myself I have enough core products in storage that will allow me to replace my network three times over. As stated early on I'll consider Z-Wave Plus using the 700 series chip set / ZigBee HA if and when the market leaders in those camps release the core items I need and use.

If none of them do I'll still have another easy 10~ 20 years of Insteon technology humming along. Lots of people have been selling used Insteon hardware on what ever platform. Anytime there's a huge lot going for pennies on the dollar I just scoop them up for parts! ? 

Insteon chips, crystals, are all desoldered just waiting to be used when needed. 

 

I have to say that I am not giving up on Insteon. I build very expensive houses with home automation and the biggest problem that I have with Z-wave and  Zigbee is that the popcorn affect (one light off at a time). The number one use of a lighting system for "normal people" is to turn all the lights off. I have had many negative comments about the popcorn affect when I used other products. Nokia is now going to make beautiful Insteon devices and I will start installing them in these homes. The only other product that comes close is the Lutron Caseta system but it does have a much more minor popcorn affect. Here is a link to the new Nokia Insteon devices; they look really high end.

 

https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com/collections/nokia

 

[asbril]

18 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

 

I have to say that I am not giving up on Insteon. I build very expensive houses with home automation and the biggest problem that I have with Z-wave and  Zigbee is that the popcorn affect (one light off at a time). The number one use of a lighting system for "normal people" is to turn all the lights off. I have had many negative comments about the popcorn affect when I used other products. Nokia is now going to make beautiful Insteon devices and I will start installing them in these homes. The only other product that comes close is the Lutron Caseta system but it does have a much more minor popcorn affect. Here is a link to the new Nokia Insteon devices; they look really high end.

 

https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com/collections/nokia

 

No need for PLM ?

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, asbril said:

No need for PLM ?

That's the hub

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

That's the hub

Exactly, if the hub is not connected with a PLM, why is there a need for a PLM ?

Reading this article, I would think that theoretically (if Smarthome cooperates) ISY could connect via a nodeserver without a PLM. That would be a game changer for me.

[Teken]

Exactly, if the hub is not connected with a PLM, why is there a need for a PLM ?

The PLM is needed to integrate with other 3rd party systems / controllers. The Hub is both in one single box.

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, asbril said:

Exactly, if the hub is not connected with a PLM, why is there a need for a PLM ?

The hub has everything built in so it doesn't need a PLM just like the current hub

[asbril]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

The hub has everything built in so it doesn't need a PLM just like the current hub

Reading this article, I would think that theoretically (if Smarthome cooperates) ISY could connect via a nodeserver without a PLM. That would be a game changer for me.

[lilyoyo1]

32 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

 

I have to say that I am not giving up on Insteon. I build very expensive houses with home automation and the biggest problem that I have with Z-wave and  Zigbee is that the popcorn affect (one light off at a time). The number one use of a lighting system for "normal people" is to turn all the lights off. I have had many negative comments about the popcorn affect when I used other products. Nokia is now going to make beautiful Insteon devices and I will start installing them in these homes. The only other product that comes close is the Lutron Caseta system but it does have a much more minor popcorn affect. Here is a link to the new Nokia Insteon devices; they look really high end.

 

https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com/collections/nokia

 

I wouldn't use Nokia in a high end home at this time. There are holes in the device lineup right now which makes it unsuitable for whole house automation. Personally, I wouldn't use Insteon period. RadioRa2 and C4 (which is ZigBee) all respond as one depending on setup..

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, asbril said:

Reading this article, I would think that theoretically (if Smarthome cooperates) ISY could connect via a nodeserver without a PLM. That would be a game changer for me.

In theory yes it could. However that would take a BIG BIG IF! It still wouldn't change anything since the hub would become a defacto PLM. 

[Teken]

Reading this article, I would think that theoretically (if Smarthome cooperates) ISY could connect via a nodeserver without a PLM. That would be a game changer for me.

I don’t see anything in that article that indicates anything. The only thing currently in place that will allow Insteon to continue on the ISY X platform is a PLM in whatever version from USB, RS-232.

Several members have already proven both types of USB PLM can connect on the Polyisy as well as the 2413S PLM using the supplied RS-232 serial cable.

If the so called PLM Pro is ever released this will allow everyone to continue to use the same.

[MrBill]

Other applications that use the pyinsteaon library, such as the native Home Assistant integration, have figured out how to harness the 2242 and 2245 hubs as PLM's over ethernet.

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/insteon/

Quote

Device support is provided by the underlying pyinsteon package. It is known to work with the 2413U USB and 2412S RS242 flavors of PLM and the 2448A7 USB stick. It has also been tested to work with the 2242 and 2245 Hubs.

So it's not a stretch by any means to use a hub as a PLM.

[Teken]

Other applications that use the pyinsteaon library, such as the native Home Assistant integration, have figured out how to harness the 2242 and 2245 hubs as PLM's over ethernet.
https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/insteon/

Device support is provided by the underlying pyinsteon package. It is known to work with the 2413U USB and 2412S RS242 flavors of PLM and the 2448A7 USB stick. It has also been tested to work with the 2242 and 2245 Hubs.

If that isn’t the perfect example of affirming nobody does better than - everybody.

I don’t know what is . . .

This is why having a well documented open API makes all the difference in the success and adoption of something. Whoever took the time to reverse engineer the Insteon protocol and glue it with the developers documentation truly deserves every dollar earned / received!

Whether this translates to someone doing the same with this new Hub is up in the air.

[LFMc]

It seems to me that a lot of people commenting on this Insteon-Nokia announcement seem to be implying that Nokia is licensing Insteon technology to build and sell product. 

From reading prior articles and the web page below, it seems it is the opposite. Insteon (i.e. Smartlabs) is only licensing the name/brand Nokia from them. Nokia doesn't appear to have any skin the the game at all.  To me that says this is all Smartlabs' deal to elevate the brand of their products. It doesn't sound like Nokia is involved technically at all. 

Do others see this differently? 

 

From the Nokia web  site:   https://www.nokia.com/shop/smart-lighting/nokia-smart-lighting-bridge/

Quote

Smartlabs, Inc.  manufactures and sells the above products and accessories, under a brand license from Nokia. Products are not available in all countries. Nokia is a registered trademark of Nokia Corporation.
 
Nokia is not the manufacturer, importer, distributor or retailer. All the information published for these products at www.nokia.com/shop and MyNokia social media channels and/or Smartlabs’s own web channels is provided by Smartlabs who is solely responsible for the accuracy of that information.

 

[Teken]

It seems to me that a lot of people commenting on this Insteon-Nokia announcement seem to be implying that Nokia is licensing Insteon technology to build and sell product. 
From reading prior articles and the web page below, it seems it is the opposite. Insteon (i.e. Smartlabs) is only licensing the name/brand Nokia from them. Nokia doesn't appear to have any skin the the game at all.  To me that says this is all Smartlabs' deal to elevate the brand of their products. It doesn't sound like Nokia is involved technically at all. 
Do others see this differently? 
 
From the Nokia web  site:   https://www.nokia.com/shop/smart-lighting/nokia-smart-lighting-bridge/

Smartlabs, Inc.  manufactures and sells the above products and accessories, under a brand license from Nokia. Products are not available in all countries. Nokia is a registered trademark of Nokia Corporation.
 
Nokia is not the manufacturer, importer, distributor or retailer. All the information published for these products at www.nokia.com/shop and MyNokia social media channels and/or Smartlabs’s own web channels is provided by Smartlabs who is solely responsible for the accuracy of that information.

 

100% Agree - For the record I’d love to argue with you!

[silverton38]

4 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I wouldn't use Nokia in a high end home at this time. There are holes in the device lineup right now which makes it unsuitable for whole house automation. Personally, I wouldn't use Insteon period. RadioRa2 and C4 (which is ZigBee) all respond as one depending on setup..

I did one Crestron install and I regret it. I have installed Lutron Caseta and wired Lutron Homeworks (wired). Though I have avoided RadioRA because it is Caseta with triple the price. I do like both of those systems but their control hubs are much more limited than the ISY. Nokia switches are made by Smartlabs (the owner of Insteon) so they will be the same as the other SmartLab switches but with nice Nokia designs. I have used insteon in most of the homes and it has been quite successful. The customers seem to like the instant on/off more than anything else. The look is slightly dated so I am excited about the new Nokia look; which is very modern. 

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

I did one Crestron install and I regret it. I have installed Lutron Caseta and wired Lutron Homeworks (wired). Though I have avoided RadioRA because it is Caseta with triple the price. I do like both of those systems but their control hubs are much more limited than the ISY. Nokia switches are made by Smartlabs (the owner of Insteon) so they will be the same as the other SmartLab switches but with nice Nokia designs. I have used insteon in most of the homes and it has been quite successful. The customers seem to like the instant on/off more than anything else. The look is slightly dated so I am excited about the new Nokia look; which is very modern. 

RR2 is much more than caseta at 3x the price. Surface comparisons i get what you're saying but that's like saying a Ferrari is a Corvette that's triple the price. The devil is in the details. 

The new line is really nice can't argue about anything you're saying. The look and feel is top notch for it's price range. However, placed next to control 4 or RR2 it runs out of steam quickly (they look better than RR2). Especially in usage. The cool thing about RR2 is that it can be integrated with the Isy, so that argument loses steam. 

I have much more information about the new line than you do which is why I say it's not ready for luxury homes (our definition of luxury homes may be different as well). The Isy would help alleviate some of my concerns but even then, the lineup is too limited for me.  

[kclenden]

11 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The hub has everything built in so it doesn't need a PLM just like the current hub

The Nokia Smart Lighting Bridge list price is $39.99.  That's half the price of the PLM or Insteon Hub Central Controller.  What could they have stripped out of it to make it so inexpensive (relatively)?

[lilyoyo1]

15 minutes ago, kclenden said:

The Nokia Smart Lighting Bridge list price is $39.99.  That's half the price of the PLM or Insteon Hub Central Controller.  What could they have stripped out of it to make it so inexpensive (relatively)?

Not much. Just making its price point low to increase adoption. It wouldn't surprise me if the price goes up down the road. Same thing happened with the hub

[Teken]

The Nokia Smart Lighting Bridge list price is $39.99.  That's half the price of the PLM or Insteon Hub Central Controller.  What could they have stripped out of it to make it so inexpensive (relatively)?

If history is any indicator it incorporates every known (no name) brand component. It will have the exact same service life as the rest. As it pertains to price the Insteon (square) Hub was at $39.99 at different times for an extended period to gain market share and adoption.

The BOM for this hardware is probably well under $25.XX. The vast majority for cost is for the mold for the UV stable plastic case.

[upstatemike]

11 hours ago, silverton38 said:

I did one Crestron install and I regret it. I have installed Lutron Caseta and wired Lutron Homeworks (wired). Though I have avoided RadioRA because it is Caseta with triple the price. I do like both of those systems but their control hubs are much more limited than the ISY. Nokia switches are made by Smartlabs (the owner of Insteon) so they will be the same as the other SmartLab switches but with nice Nokia designs. I have used insteon in most of the homes and it has been quite successful. The customers seem to like the instant on/off more than anything else. The look is slightly dated so I am excited about the new Nokia look; which is very modern. 

For me the problem with RadioRA is the switches themselves do not feel premium to me. I installed some Caseta in my house to test it out and I like the quality but the product line is too limited to ever replace all of my Insteon configurations. I also installed some RadioRA2 stuff for somebody else last year and was shocked at the fact that they were just push-on/push-off and not true rocker style switches. Not only do they feel spongy but there is no way to do multi-tap on or multi-tap off functions since there is no distinct on and off. Not what I would expect in a premium priced switch! Better to go with a good quality Z-Wave switch than pay a premium for RadioRA and end up with such a limited product.