Running Average ?

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, satwar said:

I have been working with the multifunction relay module (CR05-V3.1), but I can't seem to figure out how to set up to reduce signal bounce.  Any suggestions ?

Need to know what function you are using, what speed the events happen at, for how long (and signal width) , and what is feeding the signal to it.

Usually just an RC input network but both sides of the signal will be delayed somewhat.

[MrBill]

@satwar

I think P7 may be the mode that you desire.  As I recall the relay will pull in when triggered but the T1 delay doesn't start until it's released.  If that's the case you would set T1 short say 1 minute (which extends the on the time by that amount, thus creating a minimum on time) then set T2 longer (say 5 or 10 minutes) preventing retrigger.  and then 1 cycle.  If I'm correct it won't re-trigger until T2 expires.

I don't want to push buttons on my working relay because it's been untouched for 4.5 years.  I thought I had a backup in my parts box that I could perhaps use to experiment but I'm not finding it where it should be (amazon orders does show I ordered a backup 2 weeks after the first).   See if this helps if not maybe I'll look harder.

The above description is in the product description on amazon, the actual button press instructions are in the 4th photo (also pasted below), the time unit you likely want minutes or -2

 

 

 

[satwar]

Well I hope this makes some sense, I am thinking that I may have broken the multifunction relay CR05-v3.1

The problem I have is that I am using an EZIO2x4 to monitor the alarm status (on/off) of two devices.  When the status goes to an alarm condition it can generate dozens of changing status messages over a couple of seconds.  I only require a status change every 15 minutes.

I configured the relay as: use program = P8, set T1 time unit = -0, set T1 time = 03,  set T2 time unit = 0, set T2 time = 03, set C (cycle) = 00

The relay program is triggered using a short wire temporarily touched between the 12VDC- terminal and trigger terminal.  The program is cycling like crazy but I can't figure out how I'm supposed to wire up the relay contacts to tie into the EZIO2x4.  Continuity between the relay's COM & NO terminals are always open and the COM & NC terminals are always closed.

Thank you in advance for your patience as I am obviously a novice in these matters.

[MrBill]

11 hours ago, satwar said:

Continuity between the relay's COM & NO terminals are always open and the COM & NC terminals are always closed.

That does sound like a bad relay, or some other component.  I just went and looked again and found my spare relay, I was looking for a box and it was in a small white envelope wrapped in bubble wrap.  I'll find a transformer and see if i can or can't duplicate your results.  I'll post back later.

[MrBill]

13 hours ago, satwar said:

Well I hope this makes some sense, I am thinking that I may have broken the multifunction relay CR05-v3.1

The problem I have is that I am using an EZIO2x4 to monitor the alarm status (on/off) of two devices.  When the status goes to an alarm condition it can generate dozens of changing status messages over a couple of seconds.  I only require a status change every 15 minutes.

I configured the relay as: use program = P8, set T1 time unit = -0, set T1 time = 03,  set T2 time unit = 0, set T2 time = 03, set C (cycle) = 00

The relay program is triggered using a short wire temporarily touched between the 12VDC- terminal and trigger terminal.  The program is cycling like crazy but I can't figure out how I'm supposed to wire up the relay contacts to tie into the EZIO2x4.  Continuity between the relay's COM & NO terminals are always open and the COM & NC terminals are always closed.

Thank you in advance for your patience as I am obviously a novice in these matters.

My apologies, I've afraid I've wasted your time (and maybe a few dollars on amazon). 

I set the relay up first with the values that you gave in your post.  I noted right away that caused the red LED "work" light to cycle rapidly.  That light comes on when the relay turns on and goes off when the relay turns off.  The values entered cause it just to loop forever, at a rate that is too fast to energize and de-energize the relay.

I then set the mode to P7 (based on my prior guess) and with -2 (minutes) for the "accuracy" and a value of 1 for both T1 and T2.  This behaved almost as expected.  I triggered the relay and the relay came on for 1 minute, then went off for one minute.   What did NOT work is re-triggering during either time period.  In fact T1 begins at the leading edge of the trigger, and once triggered both time periods must expire before a re-trigger occurs.  My thinking was this relay could be used to debounce because timing began on the trailing edge of the trigger and that re-triggering would restart the timer... that's clearly not happening. 

I then went through each mode using 1 minute timers looking for one that would work as a debounce.   P1 is close, but still turns off at the end of the cycle and requires a re-trigger.

Is your snow sensor a commercial product?  do you have a link so that I can read how it works?  Maybe it has a setting that would help.   I use an EZIO but differently than this application.  I certainly understand that you don't want the input cycling on and off which would generate too much Insteon traffic.

[satwar]

Yes this is the sensor.

https://networketi.com/eti-snow-owl/

 

But what they don't show is the fine print, that you also require a "controller".  I suspect all the magic is in the controller, but it was pushing the cost beyond my pain threshold.  Brian H. showed me how to hookup the sensor to the EZIO2x4.  The work is shown in the forum.

[satwar]

20 hours ago, MrBill said:

I then set the mode to P7 (based on my prior guess) and with -2 (minutes) for the "accuracy" and a value of 1 for both T1 and T2.  This behaved almost as expected.  I triggered the relay and the relay came on for 1 minute, then went off for one minute.   What did NOT work is re-triggering during either time period.  In fact T1 begins at the leading edge of the trigger, and once triggered both time periods must expire before a re-trigger occurs.  My thinking was this relay could be used to debounce because timing began on the trailing edge of the trigger and that re-triggering would restart the timer... that's clearly not happening. 

I then went through each mode using 1 minute timers looking for one that would work as a debounce.   P1 is close, but still turns off at the end of the cycle and requires a re-trigger.

I am pretty sure that configuring the C - (cycle) to "00" will cause the program to automatically re-cycle forever.

But I'm still confused about what & when the relay terminals (NC, COM, & NO) are activated.  My NC terminal seems to be permanently connected to COM terminal.

[MrBill]

16 hours ago, satwar said:

Yes this is the sensor.

https://networketi.com/eti-snow-owl/

 

But what they don't show is the fine print, that you also require a "controller".  I suspect all the magic is in the controller, but it was pushing the cost beyond my pain threshold.  Brian H. showed me how to hookup the sensor to the EZIO2x4.  The work is shown in the forum.

I don't know that I'm going to be helpful.  The need is to debounce or slow down the state changes being sent the EZIO.   Normally the controller of the device should handle that, I don't know why I didn't think of that fact before, the secondary method would be a time delay relay.  The problem is the one that I use for a different application doesn't actually work the way I thought it did... it's more of a "timer" than "time delay".

9 minutes ago, satwar said:

I am pretty sure that configuring the C - (cycle) to "00" will cause the program to automatically re-cycle forever.

But I'm still confused about what & when the relay terminals (NC, COM, & NO) are activated.  My NC terminal seems to be permanently connected to COM terminal.

Yes, C (cycle) = 0 with cycle forever, you may be confusing what cycle means tho.  Once 'triggered' the cycle has started, meaning that infinite will never stop the on/off cycle that's been set.   When I used your values including C=0 the "work" light flashed too rapidly for a mechanical relay to be be able to work.  When the relay turns on (which is indicated by the work light) the coil in the relay is energized, it takes just a moment for it to build up enough magnetic power to "pull" the relay in.  (a mechanical relay, the blue box just above the red LED 'work' light is not a good choice for very rapid on/off cycles).  With the values you are using: Time unit = 0 and T1 and T2 = 3 you are setting 3/10 of 1 second on and 3/10 of 1 second off.  This is a very fast cycle that is too fast to energize the relay coil, and because c=0 it's never ending.

If you want to test your relay, use my values turn it to P7, time unit -2 t1= 1 time unit -2 t2 = 1 and c= 1.   That is 1 minute cycles.  Now 'trigger', the relay will turn on for 1 minute then off for 1 minute.  After that cycle is complete 'retrigger' is possible,  Unfortunately what is NOT possible is to re-trigger during that cycle, which would in  theory start the cycle over.   That would be exactly what we want:  if the snow sensor turns on the relay it stays on for a minimum amount of time and if the snow sensor turns off and on (re-trigger) during the process the timing starts over again.    (You could also perhaps use 5 or 10 seconds to test, i.e. time unit -1 and T1 and T2 = to 5).

Now if you use the above values with c=0, once you trigger the on/off cycle the on/off timing will start, once it starts that's all that happens it cycles indefinitely on and off for the set amounts of time.  Re-trigger does nothing.