Smartenit EZIO8SA support on ISY 5x?

[LFMc]

Hi All,

I dug out my old Smartenit EZIO8SA to see if I can use it for a project I am envisioning. But, I could not find the old Insteon power line only PLM (model 5010K) that came with it, so I hooked it up to a newer dual band PLM. I manually add it to the ISY because it is in the list of usable Insteon items with the address of the PLM. It adds to the ISY admin console (5.3.0) but under the device title it says "Unsupported Device:3.17".  Also there is very little detail other than what you might see for a lamp dimmer module. SO there are no relay detail or other feature detail.  I have run this before under ISY 4x with no problem (with 5010K PLM), but if I remember there were some missing features the ISY apparently didn't support.   BTW, when I tell it to beep, it does beep, so it is getting some communication from the ISY. 

So, I am trying to figure out what the problem is.  Has it been dropped from the 5x firmware even though it is in the list of items when adding?  Or must it run on a power line PLM only? Any input would be appreciated. 

@ccclapp

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by LFMc
add interested party to conversation

[lilyoyo1]

I've never used that device so I can't speak on it. However, thought it required the older plm to work properly (I may be wrong). Also make sure the address that you're typing is correct

 

Being able to cause events with the device from the isy console doesn't surprise me. Due to the way insteon messages work, the isy will still trigger a device even if it's not supported. You just wouldn't have full control over it. 

 

 

[smokegrub]

I would delete it from the ISY then factory reset it. I would then add it again. 

[LFMc]

1 hour ago, smokegrub said:

I would delete it from the ISY then factory reset it. I would then add it again. 

Hmmm.... When adding, it asks if all links are to be deleted to which I said yes. But I guess it couldn't hurt. Thanks.

Edit: Factory reset done, added back to ISY, same results as before.  I guess I need to locate the old PLM but I sure don't want to have to buy one just to test this thing. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by LFMc
Update

[Brian H]

I can't say about 5.3.0. It is in the list of my 5.0.13 as a Compacta {original company name} as a Category 07 Subcategory 04. I have not tried any of my nearly first run EXIO8SA modules. With 5.013 or a 2413S PLM

I do know for a time their PLM was a Dual Band with a 2413 base board. They had issues like we did and went back to a power line only 2412 base board. I may have been the EZIO8SA got its power through the old 2412S PLM or their equivalent as it also had unregulated 12 volts on the serial connector. From the PLM to the EZIO8SA.

Depending on its age. It may not work work a 2413S. They do have a update service for the old ones that have 2413S issues. https://smartenit.com/shop/ezio8sa-upgrade/

Since it was found and worked to a point. You may want to factory reset it and try again.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Brian H

[LFMc]

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

I can't say about 5.3.0. It is in the list of my 5.0.13 as a Compacta {original company name} as a Category 07 Subcategory 04. I have not tried any of my nearly first run EXIO8SA modules. With 5.013 or a 2413S PLM

I do know for a time their PLM was a Dual Band with a 2413 base board. They had issues like we did and went back to a power line only 2412 base board. I may have been the EZIO8SA got its power through the old 2412S PLM or their equivalent as it also had unregulated 12 volts on the serial connector. From the PLM to the EZIO8SA.

Depending on its age. It may not work work a 2413S. They do have a update service for the old ones that have 2413S issues. https://smartenit.com/shop/ezio8sa-upgrade/

Since it was found and worked to a point. You may want to factory reset it and try again.

Thanks for the helpful info, a second reset didn't change the results. Yes, it has always shown up as Compacta on my ISY even today.  I posted a support request with Smartenit about it, but it looks like I may have to invest the $40 to find out if it works or not. I think it has a couple of stuck relays (probably welded together ?).  So it appears that I will need to find the old PLM, buy one or upgrade the unit before I can fully test it. 

I was wanting to use the two analog inputs for measuring voltage (0-3vdc), but I can't remember if they even show up on the ISY screen for this device. I remember that some of the advanced features were not available on the ISY admin console, such as the 1wire interface. I just don't know about the inputs. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by LFMc

[xlurkr]

I just hooked mine up.  It's controlling the relays just fine - I can hear them clicking when I turn them on and off.  I'm on 5.0.16B, and using the original SimpleHomeNet PLM.

The inputs I'm not so sure about.  The analog ones are configurable, so I'll need to fire up the SimpleHomeNet program on my old Windows laptop to determine how they're configured now.  I suppose I can test them with a 1.5V battery.  I remember the last time I had it connected it was flashing the PLM light constantly until I rediscovered that you can't leave the analog inputs unconnected - you need to wire them to ground, which is how they are now.  But I removed the connecting block to let them float again, and there was no activity on the PLM light, and queries never returned any different values.  Weird.

BTW, I'm not sure you're right about the 1wire temp sensor.  The ISY shows 7 inputs: 9 through F (in hex).  The first four are digital, and the next two are analog.  That leaves "F", which is probably the 1wire input.  I don't have a sensor to test it with, though.

-Tom

 

[LFMc]

2 hours ago, xlurkr said:

I just hooked mine up.  It's controlling the relays just fine - I can hear them clicking when I turn them on and off.  I'm on 5.0.16B, and using the original SimpleHomeNet PLM.

The inputs I'm not so sure about.  The analog ones are configurable, so I'll need to fire up the SimpleHomeNet program on my old Windows laptop to determine how they're configured now.  I suppose I can test them with a 1.5V battery.  I remember the last time I had it connected it was flashing the PLM light constantly until I rediscovered that you can't leave the analog inputs unconnected - you need to wire them to ground, which is how they are now.  But I removed the connecting block to let them float again, and there was no activity on the PLM light, and queries never returned any different values.  Weird.

BTW, I'm not sure you're right about the 1wire temp sensor.  The ISY shows 7 inputs: 9 through F (in hex).  The first four are digital, and the next two are analog.  That leaves "F", which is probably the 1wire input.  I don't have a sensor to test it with, though.

-Tom

 

I really appreciate you going to this much trouble. That tells me that maybe I can get this working with 5x.  So you think the analog inputs are showing up in the admin console?   That would be great and the 1wire would be a great addition. But, as I understand it, the 1wire only supports one probe unlike other 1wire interfaces.  Now if I can just find my old Smartenit PLM. 

Thanks again.

Edited April 21, 2021 by LFMc

[LFMc]

2 hours ago, xlurkr said:

The ISY shows 7 inputs: 9 through F (in hex).  The first four are digital, and the next two are analog.  That leaves "F", which is probably the 1wire input.  I don't have a sensor to test it with, though.

Also I think you have to turn on the 1wire and other features via the SHN utility.  

[xlurkr]

I did manage to fire up the SHN utility.  As I suspected, the analog inputs are now set for threshold, and the broadcast is turned off, so I shouldn't have been surprised not to see the PLM flood when I took off the header.  I don't remember setting it up this way.  Maybe it reset itself.  I'll turn both features back on and see what happens.

Also, there IS a checkbox for the 1wire interface in the utility, so that probably needs to be set if you have any expectation of seeing something on the ISY.  And I think you are right that it only supports 1 device, and I believe it only supports the Dallas temp sensor.

-Tom

[xlurkr]

Mixed results.  In the SHN utility, I can clearly see random (noisy) values returned from the analog inputs when they are allowed to float.  When the header is connected and they are grounded, I get 0 or 1.

However, queries from the ISY are not tracking.  In fact, they're not consistent.  I have two laptops connected, and on one the queries return nothing.  On the other, queries return 100% every time.  I'll reboot the ISY, power cycle the EZ, etc. and see if I can get the analog inputs to return a reasonable value when queried.

-Tom

[LFMc]

2 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

Mixed results.  In the SHN utility, I can clearly see random (noisy) values returned from the analog inputs when they are allowed to float.  When the header is connected and they are grounded, I get 0 or 1.

However, queries from the ISY are not tracking.  In fact, they're not consistent.  I have two laptops connected, and on one the queries return nothing.  On the other, queries return 100% every time.  I'll reboot the ISY, power cycle the EZ, etc. and see if I can get the analog inputs to return a reasonable value when queried.

-Tom

did you try the 1.5vdc battery test? 

[xlurkr]

No need to, I think.  If I query the analog inputs from the SHN utility, I can see the PLM blink.  If I query from the ISY, no blinkee.  That explains what I'm seeing.

I can enter a support ticket if you want.  I think I'm in a better position than you to document and test, since I have the SHN PLM and my relays are working.

-Tom

[LFMc]

1 minute ago, xlurkr said:

No need to, I think.  If I query the analog inputs from the SHN utility, I can see the PLM blink.  If I query from the ISY, no blinkee.  That explains what I'm seeing.

I can enter a support ticket if you want.  I think I'm in a better position than you to document and test, since I have the SHN PLM and my relays are working.

-Tom

Got it.  I never paid attention to the analog input or 1wire last time I had it hooked up, so it would be nice to know if I need to buy the additional equipment or move on to a different solution. Thanks again. 

[xlurkr]

 

Getting weirder.  Looking at the ISY log, I can see that queries on any nodes other than the first one trigger no activity.  Queries on the first node usually return one or two entries for the analog inputs, which bounce back and forth between 0 and 255, but no other values.

While doing that, I occasionally turned one of the relays on and off.  Subsequent queries on the first node would eventually return a status change on the relays, several minutes after they had changed state, mixed in among the more frequent analog input status changes.

I'm pretty sure this isn't how it's supposed to work.  I'm going to unplug and/or reboot everything, and possibly even remove the EZ and reinstall it, since I'm not using it for anything right now.  Assuming I can get consistent results on the inputs, I'll submit a ticket.  I might also experiment with creating links for the inputs.  Currently, none have links.

Throughout, the relays have always turned on and off instantly, and the status has been accurately displayed.  One positive note.

-Tom

[Brian H]

The One Wire input is by default. For a DS18B20 Temperature Sensor and I have not seen any posts on how to change what it is connected to. I believe it could also only do one device connected to the one wire connector.

Used the utility and saw the Analog Inputs where disabled. So my previous findings are not valid.

So I do know it would connect with my ISY994i, 5.0.13 firmware and external 12 volt supply but can't say if the Analog Inputs would work if enabled.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Brian H

[LFMc]

10 hours ago, xlurkr said:

Throughout, the relays have always turned on and off instantly, and the status has been accurately displayed.  One positive note

Thanks Tom.  I used the relays on mine for a year or two with the ISY until they started freezing up. That's when I took it off line before I totally destroyed it. 

3 hours ago, Brian H said:

So I do know it would connect with my ISY994i, 5.0.13 firmware and external 12 volt supply but can't say if the Analog Inputs would work if enabled.

Brian, it seems to me that the only way I got the analog and 1wire to respond properly was using their SHN utility.  But you have to ground the analog inputs if they are not hooked up to a voltage input source. 

I wish I could just use a null modem cable to talk to the EZIO from my PC using the SHN utility, but the utility doesn't give you that option. 

[xlurkr]

I'm using an EZBridge to talk to the EZIO.  That eliminates the need for a PLM connected to the computer.  The EZBridge connects to a second PLM, and I connect to it over WiFi (it's hardwired to my router).  The EZServe might also work the same way, and had a built-in PLM, I think.

-Tom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian H]

I did have the two Analog Inputs jumped to ground but forgot they had to be enabled with the SHN Utility.

It does look like the SHN Utility is needed to enable them and how they act. From their default disabled and how they act.

[xlurkr]

I did some searching, and it looks like it's expected behavior that queries only work on the first node, and those queries return any states that have changed.  Not sure why there's such a delay in returning the values of relays that I manually changed.  Maybe the queue gets filled with all of these bounces between 0 and 255 on the analog inputs.

Also, in one topic, there was a warning about changing the operating modes in the SHN utility.  It's likely that the ISY sets some of the modes they way it wants when the EZIO gets added.  That's a good point I hadn't considered.  When I have time, I'll factory reset the EZIO and its PLM, remove it from the ISY, add it back, and see what the settings are in the SHN utility without changing any.

-Tom

[xlurkr]

More searching revealed that the ISY doesn't support analog or 1wire input at all.

-Tom

[LFMc]

1 hour ago, xlurkr said:

More searching revealed that the ISY doesn't support analog or 1wire input at all.

-Tom

That's what I was afraid of. I guess there might be a back door way of accessing the data and stuffing into an ISY variable, but I am not sure it is worth the effort. Thanks for all the help!

[xlurkr]

I fooled around with this a little more.  Using the SHN Utility, you can see what traffic is generated when you talk to the EZIO.  I reenabled the analog input and removed the header so the inputs would float.  Pushing the buttons to read AN1 and AN2 in the utility returned small non-zero values, and also revealed that you get the values by sending commands to do a peek on a register - not surprising that the ISY didn't want to go there.  It corresponded exactly with the documentation on the SmartenIt website for the EZIO8SA.

With my EZBridge, this can also be done by passing XML back and forth.  I tested with the same commands the SHN Utility used, and it worked.  It's long discontinued, though, so won't be much help to you.  However, you might find some RPi or other homebrew solution that would do pretty much the same thing.  You "just" need something to connect to a PLM, send Insteon commands, and return the result.  Should work with the 1wire sensor, too.  Let me know if you want to explore this, and I can help you with the commands if you need help.

-Tom