epete Posted April 25, 2021 Posted April 25, 2021 I have to say, I am quite disappointed in Insteon RF Communication. All of the Powerline stuff seems to work fine in my home, I have over 50 wall dimmer modules / keypads installed throughout my home and would think that should be sufficient for RF Coverage. I have found that several RF HiddenLink door sensors see spotty and I had to install a 2-wire dimmer where a light was wired without neutral that just doesn't connect at all (Well was able to link it to ISY but ISY cannot communicate 90% of the time. I installed a Keypad link nearby hoping that would fix thea problem and also plugged in a "plug-in" dimmer in a nearby outlet which didn't help either. So, my question is; are the Insteon Plug-in Range Extender any better than the Dimmer Wall switch or Plug In dimmer modules for repeating RF Signals? Just wodering before I shell out any more money on this.
Techman Posted April 25, 2021 Posted April 25, 2021 49 minutes ago, epete said: I have to say, I am quite disappointed in Insteon RF Communication. All of the Powerline stuff seems to work fine in my home, I have over 50 wall dimmer modules / keypads installed throughout my home and would think that should be sufficient for RF Coverage. I have found that several RF HiddenLink door sensors see spotty and I had to install a 2-wire dimmer where a light was wired without neutral that just doesn't connect at all (Well was able to link it to ISY but ISY cannot communicate 90% of the time. I installed a Keypad link nearby hoping that would fix thea problem and also plugged in a "plug-in" dimmer in a nearby outlet which didn't help either. So, my question is; are the Insteon Plug-in Range Extender any better than the Dimmer Wall switch or Plug In dimmer modules for repeating RF Signals? Just wodering before I shell out any more money on this. The range extender and the plug in lamp dimmer are essentially the same device. The dimmer just has an extra board added. Being that the 2 wire dimmer is an RF only device your communication problem should have been resolved by adding the dimmer module close by. What type of bulbs are you trying to control with the 2 wire switch, as it only supports incandescent bulbs.
Brian H Posted April 25, 2021 Posted April 25, 2021 My Range Extender is a 2457D2 Lamp Module with the output components not installed and the same FCC ID Number as the Lamp Module. I did not see an added board in mine but presently sold ones maybe different. The two wire wall switch does not send or receive any power line commands. Steals power through the Load. I would second the recommendation to put a Dual Band or Range Extender close to it to help with the needed RF Insteon signals.
epete Posted April 25, 2021 Author Posted April 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Techman said: The range extender and the plug in lamp dimmer are essentially the same device. The dimmer just has an extra board added. Being that the 2 wire dimmer is an RF only device your communication problem should have been resolved by adding the dimmer module close by. What type of bulbs are you trying to control with the 2 wire switch, as it only supports incandescent bulbs. I saw that the 2 wire dimmer is only designed to work with incandescent when it arrived. I have high hat lighting with built in LED. I figured I would try it anyway to see if it worked. My understanding (from looking on the web) was that using an LED limits the current to power the device making it difficult to turn on after being dimmed. It seemed to work fine from a switching perspective. I hadn't thought there would be impact to the RF Receiver, but I guess that makes sense. I can replace that unit with the old incandescent type and see if that solves the problem. I threw out all of my incandescent bulbs. Can you even buy 100W incandescent bulbs anymore? It is too bad this design only supports bulbs that are becoming obsolete.
epete Posted April 25, 2021 Author Posted April 25, 2021 29 minutes ago, Brian H said: My Range Extender is a 2457D2 Lamp Module with the output components not installed and the same FCC ID Number as the Lamp Module. I did not see an added board in mine but presently sold ones maybe different. The two wire wall switch does not send or receive any power line commands. Steals power through the Load. I would second the recommendation to put a Dual Band or Range Extender close to it to help with the needed RF Insteon signals. thanks for the info. I have a bunch of these (unused) glad I didn't spend money for an extender. By the way as I mentioned above the Lamp Module did not fix the problem and Brian H may have pinpointed the issue that I am powering an LED Bulb
Techman Posted April 26, 2021 Posted April 26, 2021 51 minutes ago, epete said: thanks for the info. I have a bunch of these (unused) glad I didn't spend money for an extender. By the way as I mentioned above the Lamp Module did not fix the problem and Brian H may have pinpointed the issue that I am powering an LED Bulb An LED bulb will not allow enough voltage to the 2 wire switch for it to work properly. You might want to try wiring a 7 watt night light bulb in parallel with the led bulb, if that doesn't work then you'll have to use an incandescent bulb
Brian H Posted April 26, 2021 Posted April 26, 2021 Some dimmable LED bulbs may also glow dimly or pulse on and off. As the switch tries to get its power through the load.
epete Posted April 26, 2021 Author Posted April 26, 2021 (edited) Would that be dangerous to use this Y adapter inside the high hat chamber to insert the parallel night light? Edited April 26, 2021 by epete
larryllix Posted April 26, 2021 Posted April 26, 2021 The bakelight or plastic splitter likely won't last long due to heat accumulation inside of an insulated ceiling potLight fixture. I burnt my hand once, on an LED BR40 bulb, changing it. With no heat escape, I am surprised LED bulb's electronics can survive at all.
epete Posted April 26, 2021 Author Posted April 26, 2021 ok, thanks. Will have to figure out some other solution.
Goose66 Posted April 26, 2021 Posted April 26, 2021 (edited) I had a similar situation as well. I ended up putting an Insteon Dimming Micro Module in the j-box behind the lighting fixture and rewired the circuit to provide full time power to the micro module and Insteon Dimmer Switch. Works great as a switch and light, but only get like 95-98% reliability from my ISY on the scene for this one. I imagine you can put a Micro Module in the can housing behind the fixture without any problems. Also, unless the LED fixture is truly dimmable, you may want an On/Off Micro Module. Edited April 26, 2021 by Goose66
epete Posted May 1, 2021 Author Posted May 1, 2021 OK, I went to Home Depot to purchase a BR30 Incandescent 100w bulb. No luck. I think the maximum you can buy these days is 65W. This is too dim for my purposes. But I have the 65W bulb and inserted. I am still having communications issues with this 2 wire switch. I have now programmed a battery hidden link door sensor to make some of my other insteon devices near the switch beep when the status changes. I can carry that hidden link right next to the 2-Wire switch and the RF Communication with the Hidden Link works every time. Maybe it is a faulty 2-wire switch? By the way, anyone know where I can buy a 100W BR30 Incandescent bulb? Rewiring may be the best option but not sure how difficult that would be. I don't want to cut a hole in the ceiling to access the junction box. I do have Dimming Micro Modules.
Techman Posted May 1, 2021 Posted May 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, epete said: OK, I went to Home Depot to purchase a BR30 Incandescent 100w bulb. No luck. I think the maximum you can buy these days is 65W. This is too dim for my purposes. But I have the 65W bulb and inserted. I am still having communications issues with this 2 wire switch. I have now programmed a battery hidden link door sensor to make some of my other insteon devices near the switch beep when the status changes. I can carry that hidden link right next to the 2-Wire switch and the RF Communication with the Hidden Link works every time. Maybe it is a faulty 2-wire switch? By the way, anyone know where I can buy a 100W BR30 Incandescent bulb? Rewiring may be the best option but not sure how difficult that would be. I don't want to cut a hole in the ceiling to access the junction box. I do have Dimming Micro Modules. The 2 wire switch will not work with LED bulbs. Amazon should have 75 watt equivalent BR30. The 100 watt bulbs have been discontinued but it's possible that someone may still have a few in stock. The 2 wire switch is an RF only device which is why the hidden door sensor works when you hold it next to the switch. If you're having communications issues with any RF only device then plug in a module, i.e. a range extender, lamp module or on/off module close to the RF only device. This will improve communications on the Insteon mesh network.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 1, 2021 Posted May 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, Techman said: The 2 wire switch will not work with LED bulbs. Amazon should have 75 watt equivalent BR30. The 100 watt bulbs have been discontinued but it's possible that someone may still have a few in stock. The 2 wire switch is an RF only device which is why the hidden door sensor works when you hold it next to the switch. If you're having communications issues with any RF only device then plug in a module, i.e. a range extender, lamp module or on/off module close to the RF only device. This will improve communications on the Insteon mesh network. Try factory resetting the switch and sensor. Then manually link the sensor to the switch and see how the switch responds to a direct link and sure you are using an incandescent bulb. If you don't have any problems that way, then the switch is not faulty. Once done testing, factory reset your items again and use the restore feature in the isy to get them working with the system
epete Posted May 1, 2021 Author Posted May 1, 2021 31 minutes ago, Techman said: The 2 wire switch will not work with LED bulbs. Amazon should have 75 watt equivalent BR30. The 100 watt bulbs have been discontinued but it's possible that someone may still have a few in stock. The 2 wire switch is an RF only device which is why the hidden door sensor works when you hold it next to the switch. If you're having communications issues with any RF only device then plug in a module, i.e. a range extender, lamp module or on/off module close to the RF only device. This will improve communications on the Insteon mesh network. Techman, correct. Maybe my wording was confusing. Last week you pointed out to use with incandescent and so today I purchased one and re-tried with the incandescent and noticed I still have the problem. I then wanted to validate the RF Coverage near the switch was good so I placed a hidden link sensor in the same location as the 2-Wire Switch and confirmed communication with the hidden link sensor was good and could not get the hidden link sensor to fail. Earlier in the thread I also noted I tried the Dual Mode Dimming lamp module as an extender which did not resolve the issue with the 2 wire switch.
epete Posted May 1, 2021 Author Posted May 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Try factory resetting the switch and sensor. Then manually link the sensor to the switch and see how the switch responds to a direct link and sure you are using an incandescent bulb. If you don't have any problems that way, then the switch is not faulty. Once done testing, factory reset your items again and use the restore feature in the isy to get them working with the system OK, I really must have confused everyone. I wasn't using the sensor with the switch. I was simply using it in the same area that the switch is mounted to validate that the Insteon RF Signal is strong enough in that area. I created a program to make another nearby device beep to confirm it was working.
Techman Posted May 1, 2021 Posted May 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, epete said: Techman, correct. Maybe my wording was confusing. Last week you pointed out to use with incandescent and so today I purchased one and re-tried with the incandescent and noticed I still have the problem. I then wanted to validate the RF Coverage near the switch was good so I placed a hidden link sensor in the same location as the 2-Wire Switch and confirmed communication with the hidden link sensor was good and could not get the hidden link sensor to fail. Earlier in the thread I also noted I tried the Dual Mode Dimming lamp module as an extender which did not resolve the issue with the 2 wire switch. Try doing a factory reset on the 2 wire switch then a restore device from the ISY. Make sure you first have a dual mode module plugged in close to the switchs to insure that you have good communications between the ISY and switch. You might try removing all bulbs except the incandescent bulb to see if one of your LED bulbs is creating noise that's interfering with the switch. I'm assuming you have multiple bulbs on the circuit that the 2 wire switch controls.
epete Posted May 1, 2021 Author Posted May 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Techman said: Try doing a factory reset on the 2 wire switch then a restore device from the ISY. Make sure you first have a dual mode module plugged in close to the switchs to insure that you have good communications between the ISY and switch. You might try removing all bulbs except the incandescent bulb to see if one of your LED bulbs is creating noise that's interfering with the switch. I'm assuming you have multiple bulbs on the circuit that the 2 wire switch controls. I will try the reset. This 2 wire switch only controls one High Hat light in a closet. The Room that has this closet has four 3-wire dimming switched in that room all within about 8 feet from the 2-Wire switch. All other High Hats in the room are LED. I can simply keep them switched off to validate they are not interfering with the RF.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 1, 2021 Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, epete said: OK, I really must have confused everyone. I wasn't using the sensor with the switch. I was simply using it in the same area that the switch is mounted to validate that the Insteon RF Signal is strong enough in that area. I created a program to make another nearby device beep to confirm it was working. I wasn't confused. I recommended the sensor because it's easy to sit there tapping the button on it than a switch in another room.
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