2487S LED Brightness

[mango]

Hi folks,

Is there a trick to getting a 2487S 6 button Switchlinc to respond properly to the LED button on level brightness of 15? It is still way too dim compared to a 2334 dimmer by its side which is presently set to an on level of 3 to match level 15 on the 2487. I know the switch is capable of much brighter on levels as it starts max bright from a factory reset.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by mango

[mango]

From the 2487S manual, this procedure does not appear to work (no beep when A and D are simultaneously pressed)

Adjust LED Brightness

KeypadLinc’s LEDs can be set to any one of 32 brightness levels. If KeypadLinc in 6-ButtonConfiguration

1)Simultaneously tap the A and D buttons KeypadLinc will beep

2)Use the On and Off buttons to adjust the LEDbrightness

3)When you have reached the desired brightness, simultaneously tap the A and D buttons again KeypadLinc will beep

Edited May 25, 2021 by mango

[mango]

Hi folks,

Would anyone have an idea why the ISY will not let the LED buttons go brighter then they are able to?

[MrBill]

21 hours ago, mango said:

Hi folks,

Would anyone have an idea why the ISY will not let the LED buttons go brighter then they are able to?

There's a long running bug in version 5.x firmware.  If the OFF value of the backlight is 0 then only 0-7 of the ON values work.  You can test this using OFF value 1 and ON value 15.  I think most must use 7 or less for the ON value, because this issue isn't raised often... but it definitely exists.

[mango]

Hi MrBill, thank you.

Yep your suggestion shows they go bright at 15/1 but not at 15/0. I use 0 for off preferably, especially as I use the odd colored lens.

I was rather hoping there was a way to get them to comply and increase the brightness to match the other switches.

Edited May 27, 2021 by mango

[carealtor]

I may not fully understand your issue, or what you have tried, but it sounds like you are trying to do this by pushing buttons on the keypad?  I adjust mine with ISY programs.  You might want to look into this method.  At a minimum, write a program (no condition, just THEN statements) that sets the LEDs how you want them, but keep the program disabled and just run it manually.

Set Light Switch LEDs - [ID 002C][Parent 005C][Not Enabled]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Set 'Master Bedroom / Master Bedroom Bed Light @KP' Backlight On 15 / Off 1
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Light' Backlight 20%
        Set 'Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Tub Light' Backlight 20%
        Set 'Master Bedroom / Master Bedroom Bed Light' Backlight 20%
        Set 'Master Bedroom / Master Bedroom Foyer Light' Backlight 20%
        Set 'Outdoor / Patio Lights' Backlight 20%
        Set 'Outdoor / Patio Lights @Master Bedroom' Backlight 20%
        Set 'Sitting Room / Sitting Room Light' Backlight 20%

 

[mango]

Hi carealtor, thank you for your detailed input!

I'm so bad at trying to explain my thoughts, I think I threw everyone off-track by stating 'switchlinc' and not 'keypadlinc' in my first post.

I have a simple but weird issue:

I own 2x 2487S (relay) KPL, that both have the same problem.

The problem is that even when set to 15,0, the max light output the buttons have is about level 3,0 when compared to all other KPL dimmers I have.

I wondered if this was a bug or just a 'feature' with these specific units.

Edited May 27, 2021 by mango

[mango]

One of these 2847S's is installed in a double receptacle box together with a 2334-2 KPL.

I have to set the 2334-2 to 3,0 to match the maximum output of the 2847S which is set to 15,0

I know the 2847S is capable of bright LED's as after a factory reset, the button LED's are much brighter as you would expect them to be but as soon as you program them through the ISY, the LED's dim.

Edited May 27, 2021 by mango

[carealtor]

As @MrBill noted, there is a bug in the ISY UI when trying to adjust the LED brightness.  It will give you the impression that it has updated to the setting you want, when in fact, it has not.  This is why I suggested using a program instead.  You haven't indicated that you've tried this method.

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, carealtor said:

As @MrBill noted, there is a bug in the ISY UI when trying to adjust the LED brightness.  It will give you the impression that it has updated to the setting you want, when in fact, it has not.  This is why I suggested using a program instead.  You haven't indicated that you've tried this method.

Actually I forgot that worked.... 

 

( @Geddy take note....)

[mango]

18 hours ago, carealtor said:

As @MrBill noted, there is a bug in the ISY UI when trying to adjust the LED brightness.  It will give you the impression that it has updated to the setting you want, when in fact, it has not.  This is why I suggested using a program instead.  You haven't indicated that you've tried this method.

Hi carealtor. Unfortunately I get the same behavior using a program as I do manually setting it. Out of interest I could not find a way to adjust using percentage, only On/Off levels. Is this due to running the latest v5 firmware?

I did some trawling and found some past posts and threads of yours that I believe is the true issue I am facing, and that is one of mismatching devices and the way they respond:

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by mango

[MrBill]

@mango

Are you certain?  did you SAVE the program and then RUN THEN?

The program below sets level 15 backlight correctly on a 6 button switch.

AA testor - [ID 016B][Parent 0001]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Set 'Kitchen Fan Lights+#' Backlight On 15 / Off 0
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[mango]

Hi MrBill,

 

Yes I am certain. Saved, run then. The backlight is not as bright as the dimmer by it's side running a similar program with the same 15,0 set.

It must just be the KPL model itself.

[mango]

test LED - [ID 007F][Parent 0024]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Set 'Hallway / KPL6 FrntDr - OUTSIDE' Backlight On 15 / Off 0
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[MrBill]

4 minutes ago, mango said:

The backlight is not as bright as the dimmer by it's side running a similar program with the same 15,0 set.

What model is next to it?  another 6-button or something else?

[mango]

Left is the trouble switch - 2487S - Admin console says - Relay v.44

Right is a 2334-2 dimmer - Admin console says - v.45

Both are set to 15,0 via a program

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by mango

[MrBill]

@mangoAhhhh... I actually have that combo, let me test it specifically...

[mango]

Wow, okay! Very nice of you to troubleshoot this.

FYI I can duplicate the issue with another 2487S I have (same production cycle) so we can rule out a fault with an individual device.

[MrBill]

The v.44 relay definitely outputs less backlight for an equal setting to a v.45 dimmer next to it, there is also a v.45 8 button dimmer in the same panel, and I included it also, it's levels are the same as the v.45 6-button dimmer.

Specially I tried:

• On 4/Off 0
• On 7/Off 0
• On 15/Off 0

All set via different iterations of the same program. 

AA testor - [ID 016B][Parent 0001]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Set 'Great RM Fan Lights+#' Backlight On  4 / Off 0
        Set 'Great RM Ceiling Fan+#' Backlight On  4 / Off 0
        Set 'Great Rm Fireplace Accent#' Backlight On  4 / Off 0
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

I tried to take pictures at each level, but my phone camera seems to correct the backlight light level, the pictures look like all 3 are alike, but visually the v.44 relay is definitely dimmer when set the same as the dimmer next to it.

So this is an Insteon issue it appears... not an ISY issue, but your findings are validated the v.44 relay backlight output is definitely visually dimmer than v.45 dimmer devices next to each other when set at the same numeric level.

[Geddy]

8 minutes ago, MrBill said:

So this is an Insteon issue it appears... not an ISY issue, but your findings are validated the v.44 relay backlight output is definitely visually dimmer than v.45 dimmer devices next to each other when set at the same numeric level.

WOW! Insteon strikes again. Kind of like changing the on/off switch LED pattern to just the two LED "on/off" visible rather than looking identical to the dimmer with LEDs running up and down the side of the switch. Really kind of a design bummer for those that expand their system over time to have what we think would be identical switches, but have different appearances. Either really smart (for the company to make more money by selling replacement switches to the OCD types that like everything to look that same) or a huge oversight by part assembler and no QC from developer level.  

Great job troubleshooting the physical appearance difference! A picture truly said it all.

 

[MrBill]

2 minutes ago, Geddy said:

no QC from developer level. 

^^^this is Insteon's only consistency.^^^

Quote

Kind of like changing the on/off switch LED pattern to just the two LED "on/off" visible rather than looking identical to the dimmer with LEDs running up and down the side of the switch.

I hate that change.... it also makes paddles non-interchangeable across all products.   Fortunately I don't have any of the new iteration two hole versions, they would just look awkward next to a dimmer or two.  White paddles yellow gradually from UV light as well, another Insteon QC fail.

 

@mango: I also just tried as an afterthought setting On 15 / Off 1...  the findings are still consistent the V.44 lags the others in the brightness.

[mango]

MrBill, Thank you for the confirmation! ?

It's weird because upon setup from factory default or when in setup mode they are as bright as any other KPL, but as soon as you program them, they appear to reduce to around half brightness. That's why I thought there may be some magical work-around.

[Brian H]

When they changed to the 2 LED cover.

I did see a Smarthome note to dealers. That you could buy older ones as a color change kit part.  To match the older ones you may have in the home now.

Now all the accessory plates and light pipes seem to be gone.

[mango]

It's pretty bad if you want off to be 0. I don't visually like off set to 1. The dimmer has to be set to 3,0 to match, which works okay during the evenings but not so good during a bright day...

[carealtor]

6 hours ago, Geddy said:

Kind of like changing the on/off switch LED pattern to just the two LED "on/off" visible rather than looking identical to the dimmer with LEDs running up and down the side of the switch.

This doesn't bother me nearly as much as the decision to make the multi-button mini remote look different than the keypad.  I know they couldn't make it exactly interchangeable, but they didn't even try to simulate the look.

To the OP @mango ,  I find this all very curious.  I think I will go through my stash of older Insteon and see if I have the version keypad that is being problematic for you.