tome Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I was doing ok up until a little while ago and am now having problems and am frustrated... I have an ISY99 with two ApplicanceLincs, one Dual-band Lamplinc dimmer, two Access Points, one SwitchLinc and one KeypadLinc. The last things I did were I installed the SL and it worked fine. I added it to the ISY and could turn it off/on. I then installed the KL and added it to the ISY. I don't have a load connected to the KL as I only want to use the On/OFF buttons to control the remote SL. I then linked (via the buttons on the KL and SL) the KL to the SL. This worked fine and I could use the KL to turn the SL lights off/on. This is where things went downhill... I was reading about the ISY and that I should establish links via the ISY rather then by the buttons on the devices. So, I removed the devices from the ISY. I unlinked them using their buttons (according to the manuals). I then tried to re-add them to the ISY and couldn't. This lead to an hour or two of many factory resets of both the SL and KL and rebooting the ISY. I could not get the devices to re-appear on the ISY when I selected "Start Linking" as I had before. So after taking a break, I decided to add them using their Insteon addresses. This worked, and the devices appeared in the ISY devices list. I can control the SL and KL again from the ISY. So, one question is why couldn't I re-add them via "Start Linking", but that is not my main issue at the moment... So now I want to link the main On/Off switches of the KL to the SL as I had it before, but this time via the ISY. On the ISY I created a new scene (Link Management -> New Scene) called ShedLight. I can then add either the SL as a responder, OR the KL as a controller, but not both. When I try to do the second one I get an Error and it fails every time (after several minutes of the little progress thing). What am I doing wrong? Another, separate issue (I think), is that I have some landscape lights on two ApplicanceLincs. From the ISY I can turn them on/off. I made a simple program (and Enabled it), that says turn them on at sunset and turn them off at 12:30am and to send a notification (testing notification works fine). This program does not seem to run. It didn't turn the lights off last night as I thought it would (I had turned them on manually as I wrote the program after sunset). Today it claims it ran (last run time) but they didn't come on and I didn't get a notification. I set the program to "Enable Run At Startup" and rebooted the ISY and again, it updated the Last Run Time but nothing happened. I can understand if I had noise or something and the lights didn't come on, but I didn't get a notification either so I don't think it is really running. What am I missing here? PS: It is a new ISY and came with 2.7.0. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, I am so very sorry to hear about all the problems you are having. Let's start from the beginning: If you could add these devices to ISY before removing them (using Start Linking) there's no reason why they should not add again. My suggestions and recommendations: 1. Ensure that you have 2.7.7 installed 2. Ensure that you are using the Automatic Mode (Link Management | Advanced Options) 3. Remove the devices from ISY, do factory reset, and then try adding them back using Event Viewer Level 3 (Tools | Diagnostics). If it fails, please save the Event Viewer and send to support@universal-devices.com For notifications, please ensure that you do indeed get the Test Notification using System/Configuration tab. If programs are run but your devices are not on, try running them manually through Program Summary tab (Run If). If you are still having issues, please do give us a call and we'll try to figure out what's going on. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
tome Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, I am so very sorry to hear about all the problems you are having. Let's start from the beginning: If you could add these devices to ISY before removing them (using Start Linking) there's no reason why they should not add again. My suggestions and recommendations: 1. Ensure that you have 2.7.7 installedl I have 2.7.0 which came with the unit. I sent email earlier today to the support email address to find out how to get 2.7.7 and install it but haven't heard back... 2. Ensure that you are using the Automatic Mode (Link Management | Advanced Options) Yes, it is set to Automatic. 3. Remove the devices from ISY, do factory reset, and then try adding them back using Event Viewer Level 3 (Tools | Diagnostics). If it fails, please save the Event Viewer and send to support@universal-devices.com One question about the KL. I do a factory reset on the KL, all is fine. Then, after I have selected Link Management -> Start Linking, I go to the KL and press and hold the On button for 10 seconds. I get a beep, but instead of having the On LED come on, I get both the On and the Off buttons blinking together continuously. I will try this again, but I am sure this is what is going to happen. What would cause that? For notifications, please ensure that you do indeed get the Test Notification using System/Configuration tab. If programs are run but your devices are not on, try running them manually through Program Summary tab (Run If). If you are still having issues, please do give us a call and we'll try to figure out what's going on. With kind regards, Michel I tested notifications and they work. When I run manually from the Program Summary, the clauses work, and I get notification. It is just as if the program is not running at the scheduled times. (BTW, my Time and Location are correct). Thanks for responding so quickly. I must say that one of the reasons I chose to go with Insteon was your help (and others) in this forum. Tome Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, Please check your junk mail ... an email was sent to Tom L .. for privacy purposes, I cannot give the last name. Instead of pressing the on button, try pressing the Set button (the little button below all the other buttons). Also, please upgrade before you attempt again. You might have the newer version of KPLs which is not supported by 2.7.0. As far as notifications, please copy/paste your program here so that we can take a look. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
tome Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, Please check your junk mail ... an email was sent to Tom L .. for privacy purposes, I cannot give the last name.l I am Tom E (not L) and I didn't get a message (not in junk mail either). I just sent another message to the support email address to confirm my email address. I should also add that I have server side spam filtering that will catch your mail (since it will be new) and hold it for about 30 minutes or so. If you just sent a message to me, it might come through in a few minutes, but if you sent it earlier today perhaps you have the address wrong... Thanks Tome Link to comment
tome Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, I am so very sorry to hear about all the problems you are having. Let's start from the beginning: If you could add these devices to ISY before removing them (using Start Linking) there's no reason why they should not add again. My suggestions and recommendations: 1. Ensure that you have 2.7.7 installed 2. Ensure that you are using the Automatic Mode (Link Management | Advanced Options) 3. Remove the devices from ISY, do factory reset, and then try adding them back using Event Viewer Level 3 (Tools | Diagnostics). If it fails, please save the Event Viewer and send to support@universal-devices.com l I upgraded to 2.7.7. I had to power cycle the ISY to get it to do the upgrade, it kept failing during the loading of the file at different points. I read in the forum that other's had this problem and power cycling worked - and that worked for me. Anyway, I then removed the KeypadLinc from the ISY. Afterwords, I disconnected from the ISY, cleared my Java cache and reconnected just to convince myself it was gone. I factory reset the KL by pulling set button out till switch goes off, waiting 10+ seconds and then pushing in and holding in until I get a beep (happens nearly immediately by the way). I then let go and a few seconds later I get the Off button lit. I go to ISY and Start Linking. I go to KL and push and hold the set button. After a few seconds I get a beep and let go and the On and Off buttons begin to flash together. This is not supposed to happen. Nothing happens on the ISY and the Event View show: Sun 12/06/2009 09:32:34 PM : [LNK-BGN ] 02 64 01 00 06 Sun 12/06/2009 09:33:51 PM : ---- Initializing the linked devices ---- Sun 12/06/2009 09:33:51 PM : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ---- Sun 12/06/2009 09:33:51 PM : [LNK-END ] 02 65 06 : : Unexpected, ignored (65) Where do I go from here? As I said, I can add the KL by using it's address but something seems broken. Tome Link to comment
tome Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 FWIW, I have the same behavior when trying to link my SwitchLinc to the ISY. I factory reset it. Then go to the ISY and start linking. Go to the switch and push the set button (or the On button, I tried it both ways). I then get a beep and it appears to start flashing the LEDs on the left. I stop linking and ISY shows the same output as above. I also added them back via their addresses and that still works fine as before.... Tome Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, Aha! The main issue is that the way you are pressing the On/Set buttons is causing the KPL to want to link as a controller (not a responder); that's why the LEDs are blinking (asking for a responder to be linked). With ISY, the KPL should be linked as a RESPONDER and here are the instructions: 1. ISY/Admin Console: Link Management/Start Linking 2. Press and HOLD the set button for 3 to 5 seconds or till the attached load turns on and then off OR a node shows up on the Admin Console. At no time should you see any of the LEDs blink continuously on any of these devices Please let me know how it goes. With kind regards, Michel FWIW, I have the same behavior when trying to link my SwitchLinc to the ISY. I factory reset it. Then go to the ISY and start linking. Go to the switch and push the set button (or the On button, I tried it both ways). I then get a beep and it appears to start flashing the LEDs on the left. I stop linking and ISY shows the same output as above. I also added them back via their addresses and that still works fine as before.... Tome Link to comment
tome Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi tome, Aha! The main issue is that the way you are pressing the On/Set buttons is causing the KPL to want to link as a controller (not a responder); that's why the LEDs are blinking (asking for a responder to be linked). Michel, I took my computer with me this time so I could watch what happens (before I would start linking and walked to switches and pushed buttons). I think you are right, I must have been holding the set button too long after it appeared on the console. So, it worked! Now to the (main) issue... I want to control the lights attached to my SL from the main On/Off switches on the KPL. I create a scene, called ShedLight. I drag the SL into it as a responder and that works. I drag my KPL (called KitchenKeypad.1) into the scene as a controller, and it fails every time. I get the error: [-200000] Failed adding device to scene [KitchenKeypad.1] What is the problem here? Below is the output from the Event Viewer: Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:26 AM : [KitchenKeypad.1] Start : Adding to scene 'ShedLight' Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:26 AM : [KitchenKeypad.1] Making PLM a Responder to group 1 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:26 AM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 41 A2 01 13 C1 7A 02 0F 36 15 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:27 AM : [KitchenKeypad.1] Making 'ShedLight' a Controller Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:27 AM : [KitchenKeypad.1] Making PLM group 16 a Controller Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:27 AM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 40 E2 10 13 C1 7A 02 0F 36 15 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:27 AM : [KitchenKeypad.1] Using engine version i1 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:27 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:36 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:37 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 13.C1.7A 12.9F.2A 23 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:37 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][13.C1.7A-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:37 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 2B E8 06 PEEK (E8) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:46 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 13.C1.7A 12.9F.2A 23 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][13.C1.7A-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 2B E8 06 PEEK (E8) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 13.C1.7A 12.9F.2A 23 2B A2 PEEK (A2) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][13.C1.7A-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:56 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:35:05 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:35:09 AM : [KitchenKeypad.1] Finish : Adding to scene 'ShedLight' was Incomplete Mon 12/07/2009 08:35:45 AM : [ Time] 08:36:06 0(0) Link to comment
tome Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Nevermind, I have figured out how to make a scene that works with a KPL controlling a SL. I had to select both together and drag them to the scene rather then dragging them one at a time. I don't understand why, but it works. Tome Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi tome, I should be happy that it worked but there's surely something amiss here for two reasons: 1. You should be able to add them to a scene one at a time 2. If I look at the logs you sent: Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:56 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:35:05 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) It seems that ISY tried reaching 13.C1.7A (is that your KPL) but had major difficulties. In INSTEON, for every ACK, you should see an SRX (a response from the device). So, unfortunately so, I would not rule out more problems with this device in the future. Do you have Access Points? What does this device control? Could it be that the load on this device was OFF when you attempted to move it to the scene the second time? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
tome Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi tome, I should be happy that it worked but there's surely something amiss here for two reasons: 1. You should be able to add them to a scene one at a time 2. If I look at the logs you sent: Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:34:56 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Mon 12/07/2009 08:35:05 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.C1.7A 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) It seems that ISY tried reaching 13.C1.7A (is that your KPL) but had major difficulties. In INSTEON, for every ACK, you should see an SRX (a response from the device). So, unfortunately so, I would not rule out more problems with this device in the future. Do you have Access Points? What does this device control? Could it be that the load on this device was OFF when you attempted to move it to the scene the second time? With kind regards, Michel Michel, Funny you shouldn't be happy Earlier yesterday I moved my Access Points around for reason's not related to this problem. After that move is when I was able to create the scene by dragging both things together and i just assumed that was the fix. I didn't put two and two together (duh). After your message I deleted my scene and re-added the KPL and SL one at a time and it worked. So, now after moving the APs, things are working much better! I didn't realize that poor communications would effect the creation of scenes and whatnot in the ISY, but it makes sense now that I think about it. So the ACKs are sent by the ISY and the SRX are sent back from devices? By the way, is there a protocol specification available publicly somewhere? Also, you asked above if the load could have been off when adding to the scene. For my own clarification, why does this matter? The reason I ask is that in the case of my KPL there is no load attached to it - it was placed in an unused switch location, and yes it was in the off state when I added it. In fact, it was in the off state when I added it to the scene but is working now...? Thanks once again for your help. Tome Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi tome, Excellent. There is INSTEON protocol specification available on code.insteon.net but you will have to register. I do not recommend it unless you have some free time and a lot of coffee readily available. ACK means that the PLM received ISY's message and sent it out to the network. SRX means that the device responded to the message. Some loads (such as CFL) could actually impact communications to the point that the device itself will become deaf and dumb. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
tome Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hi tome, Excellent. There is INSTEON protocol specification available on code.insteon.net but you will have to register. I do not recommend it unless you have some free time and a lot of coffee readily available. I am interested, but not $199 interested ACK means that the PLM received ISY's message and sent it out to the network. SRX means that the device responded to the message. Cool, thanks. I will know what to look for next time. Tome Link to comment
Brian H Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 You may find some clues to Insteon workings here: http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/insteon.html I agree the $199 is not worth it. I joined the developers group; when Insteon was in its infancy for $99. Then it was worth it, but support from Smartlabs is almost 100% gone now. Link to comment
tome Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 You may find some clues to Insteon workings here:http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/insteon.html I agree the $199 is not worth it. I joined the developers group; when Insteon was in its infancy for $99. Then it was worth it, but support from Smartlabs is almost 100% gone now. Thanks! Some very useful info there. Tome Link to comment
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