30% Off Insteon

[io_guy]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Insteon doesn't need a controller. When you create a scene, those links reside in the devices. Disconnect your Isy, they'll still work. You'd lose your programs but multiway switches and stuff will still work

Zwave association does this as well, it works pretty well in 500/700.  

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, io_guy said:

Zwave association does this as well, it works pretty well in 500/700.  

It does for a limited number of devices (4 or 5). The downside is that the controller isn't aware of those device actions so you're limited in the options you have in regards to programming. Another thing is all devices has to support that ability which depending on setup, may not.

[MrBill]

26 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Insteon doesn't need a controller. When you create a scene, those links reside in the devices.

 

This was an important factor when I chose Insteon.

[upstatemike]

18 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It does for a limited number of devices (4 or 5). The downside is that the controller isn't aware of those device actions so you're limited in the options you have in regards to programming. Another thing is all devices has to support that ability which depending on setup, may not.

I guess that is a moot point now because without PLMs you can't really manage groups larger than 4 or 5 devices in any practical way. 

[larryllix]

3 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I guess that is a moot point now because without PLMs you can't really manage groups larger than 4 or 5 devices in any practical way. 

I didn't chose Insteon because of any side effect. I choose Insteon because it was a better protocol and ISY994 worked with it (almost only at the time). The scenes were a nice side effect for speed between MSes and lighting.

Of course, now with Insteon making a mess of the MS features, discontinuing so many better featured products, and sowing negative publicity about their own product line, the Insteon protocol has become a very small factor  of future selections.

With the increase in household powerline noise making devices, the powerline feature of Insteon has become a further deterent or non-feature. This is basically leaving RF only, or wired style, HA systems to pick from now.  Wired is not an option for most people so that leaves RF only. We depend on it for so many WiFi devices already so WTH? I am sure it is not without it's own problems but with the masses reverting to it, I am sure HA people can wok with what they get. Seems like Zwave with WiFi  are the only affordable protocols left and with Zwave not being single sourced  hardware anymore....

Glad I chose ISY994 when I did.

[lilyoyo1]

18 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I guess that is a moot point now because without PLMs you can't really manage groups larger than 4 or 5 devices in any practical way. 

For now. For those who do not need advanced capabilities the hub works just fine for linking as well

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I didn't chose Insteon because of any side effect. I choose Insteon because it was a better protocol and ISY994 worked with it (almost only at the time). The scenes were a nice side effect for speed between MSes and lighting.

Of course, now with Insteon making a mess of the MS features, discontinuing so many better featured products, and sowing negative publicity about their own product line, the Insteon protocol has become a very small factor  of future selections.

With the increase in household powerline noise making devices, the powerline feature of Insteon has become a further deterent or non-feature. This is basically leaving RF only, or wired style, HA systems to pick from now.  Wired is not an option for most people so that leaves RF only. We depend on it for so many WiFi devices already so WTH? I am sure it is not without it's own problems but with the masses reverting to it, I am sure HA people can wok with what they get. Seems like Zwave with WiFi  are the only affordable protocols left and with Zwave not being single sourced  hardware anymore....

Glad I chose ISY994 when I did.

I'd use Ra2 or caseta with polisy (depending on needs) before anything else. While no protocol is perfect, zwave and wifi are simply too limited for me. In real world use, they seem like toys for what my needs are

[upstatemike]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'd use Ra2 or caseta with polisy (depending on needs) before anything else. While no protocol is perfect, zwave and wifi are simply too limited for me. In real world use, they seem like toys for what my needs are

What can you do with Caseta that you can't do with ZWave? At least ZWave has keypads for scene control.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, upstatemike said:

What can you do with Caseta that you can't do with ZWave? At least ZWave has keypads for scene control.

It's about the situation. A person has to assess their needs and desires and choose what best fits them. When it comes to performance Caseta is much more reliable than zwave will ever be and you do not have the popcorn effect. That's a non starter for me period. If that doesn't bother you, then zwave is sufficient. 

Not everyone needs keypads. Besides, what keypads do you really have with zwave that's on par with insteons? The beauty of the Isy is that you can mix and match things. If keypads are needed there are options for that. 

While i use keypads and will probably continue to use them, we only use 1 button on ours for the most part and that's the goodnight/all off button. Everything else happens automatically or is voice controlled. Rarely do we physically touch buttons to turn anything on. I'm trying to get to a point where physical interaction is not necessary at all. 

With that said, I included caseta due to the cost of things. Not everyone can afford to or wants to pay the cost of Ra2 switches. On its own, I would never use or recommend caseta. However, throw the isy into the mix the dynamics change. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[upstatemike]

37 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It's about the situation. A person has to assess their needs and desires and choose what best fits them. When it comes to performance Caseta is much more reliable than zwave will ever be and you do not have the popcorn effect. That's a non starter for me period. If that doesn't bother you, then zwave is sufficient. 

Not everyone needs keypads. Besides, what keypads do you really have with zwave that's on par with insteons? The beauty of the Isy is that you can mix and match things. If keypads are needed there are options for that. 

While i use keypads and will probably continue to use them, we only use 1 button on ours for the most part and that's the goodnight/all off button. Everything else happens automatically or is voice controlled. Rarely do we physically touch buttons to turn anything on. I'm trying to get to a point where physical interaction is not necessary at all. 

With that said, I included caseta due to the cost of things. Not everyone can afford to or wants to pay the cost of Ra2 switches. On its own, I would never use or recommend caseta. However, throw the isy into the mix the dynamics change. 

I used to vary the ramp times on devices in groups to intentionally create a popcorn effect. I think it looks very SciFi and futuristic like on Star Trek.

Zooz Scene Controller. Not as flexible as Insteon but more than Caseta has.

Keypads to control lots of outdoor lighting locations from next to each door. Keypads in the master bed/bath suite which can control ceiling and bedside lamps, bedroom fan, bathroom main and counter lights, bathroom fan, dressing room lights... etc.

Intentions are never static so cannot be predicted.

I may have mentioned it elsewhere but I don't care for the tactile feel of Ra2 switches... particularly at that price point. Caseta on the other hand has a very good tactile response.

[lilyoyo1]

13 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I used to vary the ramp times on devices in groups to intentionally create a popcorn effect. I think it looks very SciFi and futuristic like on Star Trek.

Zooz Scene Controller. Not as flexible as Insteon but more than Caseta has.

Keypads to control lots of outdoor lighting locations from next to each door. Keypads in the master bed/bath suite which can control ceiling and bedside lamps, bedroom fan, bathroom main and counter lights, bathroom fan, dressing room lights... etc.

Intentions are never static so cannot be predicted.

I may have mentioned it elsewhere but I don't care for the tactile feel of Ra2 switches... particularly at that price point. Caseta on the other hand has a very good tactile response.

I used to be that way when it comes to needing a bunch of kpls. Over time I've moved away from them. I still have them from my previous setup and for manual control should the Isy fail.

Depending on the room a person is in, my lights will automatically turn on depending on how dark it is. They'll gradually ramp up the darker it gets until at full brightness. As it gets later into the evening/night, they'll slowly start to dim. 

Outdoor lighting comes on automatically including accent lights in the yard. I do use a keypad to determine if it's me or the wife on the patio. However, if neither hits the button and someone is out there as it gets dark, the light will still come on the way it does inside. 

If music is on and someone turns on the tv, volume will automatically reduce. It also reduces the later it gets at night. 

In the bathrooms, depending on the day and time frame, certain things can happen. For example, take a shower on a Friday evening, the music will start playing. Conversely, turning the bathroom music on at night will automatically set the bathroom up to take a shower.

While my bedroom kpl has a button for kitchen path light, the simple act of walking out of the bedroom will trigger it as well. No need to hit the button. It's like that for all bedrooms. This is why I say kpls aren't needed as much for me anymore

[asbril]

6 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'd use Ra2 or caseta with polisy (depending on needs) before anything else. While no protocol is perfect, zwave and wifi are simply too limited for me. In real world use, they seem like toys for what my needs are

I just read that Caseta switches do not need a Neutral wire. I have one switchbox where it is practically impossible to get a Neutral. I resolved this with a switch from Inovelli, but Inovelli switches can be a p.i.t.a.

Would a Caseta switch be the solution ?  Does the Lutron-Caseta nodeserver work well ? Where would i put the Caseta control box  between my ISY/Polisy and the Caseta switch ?

[upstatemike]

12 hours ago, asbril said:

I just read that Caseta switches do not need a Neutral wire. I have one switchbox where it is practically impossible to get a Neutral. I resolved this with a switch from Inovelli, but Inovelli switches can be a p.i.t.a.

Would a Caseta switch be the solution ?  Does the Lutron-Caseta nodeserver work well ? Where would i put the Caseta control box  between my ISY/Polisy and the Caseta switch ?

I haven't used the Lutron nodeserver yet but the Caseta bridge would go someplace where you can provide a wired network connection that is also within range of your switch. Polisy would talk to the bridge over your LAN. 

What is it about Inovelli switches that gives you problems? I am building out a small test zone of a dozen or so Z-Wave products from Homeseer, Zooz, and Inovelli and am curious what issues I should be looking for in the Inovelli switches and bulbs?

[asbril]

9 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

What is it about Inovelli switches that gives you problems? I am building out a small test zone of a dozen or so Z-Wave products from Homeseer, Zooz, and Inovelli and am curious what issues I should be looking for in the Inovelli switches and bulbs?

I like the innovative spirit of Inovelli and I have quite a few for their products, but these are my reservations :

(1)  Their "no neutral needed"  switch worked for a while and then suddenly no longer functioned in that specific switch box. I removed and connected the switch with a neutral wire and it worked fine.  I have a spare of those switches and that one gave me the same issue. I now resolved that switchbox issue with a Go Control switch, which works but does not look as nice and is battery based.

(2)  I have a bulb fro  Inovelli that works perfectly but everytime it is activated it sends an error message to my ISY

(3)  The inclusion/exclusion procedure of Inoveli switches is different from most other Zwave products and that is annoying.

(4) From time to time, Inoveli switches stop working all together (even manually) and the solution is then (if no other major issue) to power cycle the specific fuse.

Inovelli is moving away from their current strategy to focus on more profitable business, probably larger markets than us nerdies.

[asbril]

22 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I haven't used the Lutron nodeserver yet but the Caseta bridge would go someplace where you can provide a wired network connection that is also within range of your switch. Polisy would talk to the bridge over your LAN. 

"........Polisy would talk to the bridge over your LAN. .........". I am a bit confused about what you write here. In your case do you use Caseta with ISY without the nodeserver ? Can you confirm that a neutral wire is not needed ?

Thanks !!!!!

[asbril]

25 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Homeseer, Zooz, and Inovelli

My personal experience (I have more than 80 Zwave devices) is that the best switches are those from GE/Jasco and Homeseer.

Edited August 29, 2021 by asbril

[upstatemike]

17 minutes ago, asbril said:

"........Polisy would talk to the bridge over your LAN. .........". I am a bit confused about what you write here. In your case do you use Caseta with ISY without the nodeserver ? Can you confirm that a neutral wire is not needed ?

Thanks !!!!!

I am not using Caseta with ISY currently. I was just trying to answer your question on how to do it.

[asbril]

1 minute ago, upstatemike said:

I am not using Caseta with ISY currently. I was just trying to answer your question on how to do it.

Thanks , I understand, but just to make sure, it would require the Lutron-Caseta nodeserver ?

I very much would also appreciate the input of someone actually using Caseta with ISY.

[upstatemike]

17 minutes ago, asbril said:

My personal experience (I have more than 80 Zwave devices) is that the best switches are those from GE/Jasco and Homeseer.

I have heard good things about GE/Jasco but they don't have the newer innovations I want to test. I selected examples from brands with the most interesting features.

[upstatemike]

1 minute ago, asbril said:

Thanks , I understand, but just to make sure, it would require the Lutron-Caseta nodeserver ?

I very much would also appreciate the input of someone actually using Caseta with ISY.

Yes you need the Nodeserver. I agree somebody who is using it should chime in... I just wanted to make sure you got some kind of response.

[asbril]

3 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I have heard good things about GE/Jasco but they don't have the newer innovations I want to test. I selected examples from brands with the most interesting features.

You are right. Inovelli and Zooz have the more innovative products. I have only used Zooz in  few cases and have no bad experience with these.

Edited August 29, 2021 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

3 hours ago, asbril said:

Thanks , I understand, but just to make sure, it would require the Lutron-Caseta nodeserver ?

I very much would also appreciate the input of someone actually using Caseta with ISY.

You would require the caseta bridge and the nodeserver in order to use it with the isy. I do not see why you would have any issues with caseta in that location

[asbril]

25 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You would require the caseta bridge and the nodeserver in order to use it with the isy. I do not see why you would have any issues with caseta in that location

@lilyoyo1 Caseta works without Neutral wire ?

[lilyoyo1]

35 minutes ago, asbril said:

@lilyoyo1 Caseta works without Neutral wire ?

It can work without a neutral. Did you need dimming or on/off

[asbril]

27 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It can work without a neutral. Did you need dimming or on/off

on/off