romeo_echo Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 Hi all, I didn't know where else to put this question, so I'm just throwing it out there... My question is about dimmable bulbs. Which (LED, white, warm, dimmable) bulb has the best "dimming curve"? I bought a bunch of these, which have a nice warm glow when turned down: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CFRCGKC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The problem is, when I change the brightness control on them from 0% (off) to, say, 1% or 2%, they just kind of snap on at dim but still fairly bright value. It is quite a jump, especially if you're trying to do a "sunrise" type thing. Very unlike an incandescent bulb, which at 1 or 2% is more like an extinguished matchhead that is still glowing, if even that. Are there ANY LED bulbs that have truly incandescent-like dimming curve? Or is there a bulb known to have the best dimming curve, even if it's not quite incandescent-like? One requirement would be that the bulb also achieve "normal" brightness, 60-watt equivalent or better... just switching to a very low watt LED bulb wouldn't be a good solution, as these also have to function as my normal room lights. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this topic. Just FYI, my system is an ISY 994i that controls a lot of Insteon LampLincs and OutletLincs.. the dimming curve is of course awesome when using incandescents. --Ralph
MrBill Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 Phillips Warm Glow... available at Amazon or Home Depot 1
MrBill Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 2 hours ago, MrBill said: Phillips Warm Glow... available at Amazon or Home Depot Actually I was just at HD, the packaging of the traditional light bulb (A-lamp) style is no longer marketed under the Warm Glow name... it says Phillips Dimmable LED with a purple box... the orange band at the top of the box has in printing that almost gets lost the words "Warm Glow Effect" The back of the box does show examples with in big letters "The more you dim the warmer the light" I think they made a mistake ditching the "Warm Glow" trademark/tradename.
larryllix Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) You already have the Warm Glow lightbulbs. Read the package. I found them doing the same thing. Mine (test 6 bulbs) would only come on at about 40% with an Insteon SwitchLinc Dimmer. Then they would suddenly jump on to 40% brightness. The dimming curve was one of the worst I have seen of any bulbs yet. Horrible useless bulbs. Mine went back to Home Depot. If you want the very best dimming curve you need to abandon the Insteon dimmers on LEDs and use self contained dimming Smart Lightbulbs. They will dim right down to 1% without any flicker. But then you are into remote control of RGBCW bubs with more complexity. Edited October 3, 2021 by larryllix
lilyoyo1 Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, larryllix said: You already have the Warm Glow lightbulbs. Read the package. I found them doing the same thing. Mine (test 6 bulbs) would only come on at about 40% with an Insteon SwitchLinc Dimmer. Then they would suddenly jump on to 40% brightness. The dimming curve was one of the worst I have seen of any bulbs yet. Horrible useless bulbs. Mine went back to Home Depot. If you want the very best dimming curve you need to abandon the Insteon dimmers on LEDs and use self contained dimming Smart Lightbulbs. They will dim right down to 1% without any flicker. But then you are into remote control of RGBCW bubs with more complexity. I've done over 100 homes with insteon and warm glow bulbs and haven't had a single experience that you've had. While electronic dimmable bulbs can go lower and turn on lower than standard LEDs, most of the light is unusable below a certain point anyway. In fact, I've attached a few photos to show how low it can go with zero flickering. The brightest photo attached is @ 12%. At 1% you can barely tell that it's on. Edited October 3, 2021 by lilyoyo1 4
MrBill Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 43 minutes ago, larryllix said: Horrible useless bulbs. Mine went back to Home Depot. I knew you were going to come say this... in fact I almost typed Larryllix will be along shortly to tell you how awful they are. Fact is i just purchased 2- 1600 lumen bulbs today, as usual they work perfectly with an insteon dimmer... full dimming range... 1
lilyoyo1 Posted October 3, 2021 Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, romeo_echo said: Hi all, I didn't know where else to put this question, so I'm just throwing it out there... My question is about dimmable bulbs. Which (LED, white, warm, dimmable) bulb has the best "dimming curve"? I bought a bunch of these, which have a nice warm glow when turned down: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CFRCGKC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The problem is, when I change the brightness control on them from 0% (off) to, say, 1% or 2%, they just kind of snap on at dim but still fairly bright value. It is quite a jump, especially if you're trying to do a "sunrise" type thing. Very unlike an incandescent bulb, which at 1 or 2% is more like an extinguished matchhead that is still glowing, if even that. Are there ANY LED bulbs that have truly incandescent-like dimming curve? Or is there a bulb known to have the best dimming curve, even if it's not quite incandescent-like? One requirement would be that the bulb also achieve "normal" brightness, 60-watt equivalent or better... just switching to a very low watt LED bulb wouldn't be a good solution, as these also have to function as my normal room lights. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this topic. Just FYI, my system is an ISY 994i that controls a lot of Insteon LampLincs and OutletLincs.. the dimming curve is of course awesome when using incandescents. --Ralph LEDs are not incandescent bulbs. The mechanisms they use to work is completely different which is why you have different results. Incandcents use a filament which warms up which is why you have more control over how low they go when turn on and off. Led bulbs are electronically driven. They require a certain amount of energy to power them on which is why they have a hard time turning on at extremely low settings. Electronically controlled bulbs such as lifx and hue can turn on lower than standard LEDs due to how they work but even then, the output is not nearly as good as it is with incandescent bulbs. I have found, when the isy is the one turning on the light, I can have them turn on lower than i can do when holding the switch on. With that said, that's not a problem for me since I use presets and the Isy when turning on the lights vs physically pressing and holding a switch Edited October 3, 2021 by lilyoyo1 1
larryllix Posted October 4, 2021 Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) On 10/3/2021 at 5:42 PM, MrBill said: I knew you were going to come say this... in fact I almost typed Larryllix will be along shortly to tell you how awful they are. Fact is i just purchased 2- 1600 lumen bulbs today, as usual they work perfectly with an insteon dimmer... full dimming range... Lol! Just letting the OP know he is not alone in his experience and reason for his thread. Maybe re-read the OP again about his findings. Edited October 5, 2021 by larryllix
romeo_echo Posted October 4, 2021 Author Posted October 4, 2021 15 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: In fact, I've attached a few photos to show how low it can go with zero flickering. The brightest photo attached is @ 12%. At 1% you can barely tell that it's on. Thanks lilyoyo1. Those pictures don't look at all like my dimming curve. And FYI, this problem is not the same as some people are describing where the lights won't come on at all until dimmer hits high numbers like 40%. Mine come on when my ISY/LampLinc is at 1% -- they jump up to a level that looks awfully dim in the daytime, but in the pitch dark of a "sunrise" scenario, it's quite a jump... especially when I have eight lightbulbs in my master bedroom (hey I like it bright when I need it ) Anyway, I just bought the lastest Philips warm LEDs (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08667GGJW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details), when they come in I will report back as to whether the dimming curve has improved over my two-year-old bulbs (which should be the "same", they are also Philips warm LEDs). I also worked around the problem a bit by having a couple of smaller incandescent accent lights that do their sunrise thing about 15 minutes before the LEDs flare up to their so-called "1%" .... kind of takes the edge off. But a nicer LED dimming curve couldn't hurt too ... Thanks all for the input!
lilyoyo1 Posted October 4, 2021 Posted October 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, romeo_echo said: Thanks lilyoyo1. Those pictures don't look at all like my dimming curve. And FYI, this problem is not the same as some people are describing where the lights won't come on at all until dimmer hits high numbers like 40%. Mine come on when my ISY/LampLinc is at 1% -- they jump up to a level that looks awfully dim in the daytime, but in the pitch dark of a "sunrise" scenario, it's quite a jump... especially when I have eight lightbulbs in my master bedroom (hey I like it bright when I need it ) Anyway, I just bought the lastest Philips warm LEDs (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08667GGJW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details), when they come in I will report back as to whether the dimming curve has improved over my two-year-old bulbs (which should be the "same", they are also Philips warm LEDs). I also worked around the problem a bit by having a couple of smaller incandescent accent lights that do their sunrise thing about 15 minutes before the LEDs flare up to their so-called "1%" .... kind of takes the edge off. But a nicer LED dimming curve couldn't hurt too ... Thanks all for the input! When you're talking about 8 bulbs its going to be much brighter than you anticipate....especially with LEDs. as a test, Id unscrew 6 to see how bright they are as that will let you know if you have unrealistic expectations for what you are trying to achieve. Its the same thing in my bathroom. The recessed lights in the general bath area are the exact same as the 1 over the shower. The bathroom (shower area) is much darker dimming the shower light down vs the same level I can achieve when dimming the other lights. I can swap out every other bulb with the shower and get the same results
romeo_echo Posted October 5, 2021 Author Posted October 5, 2021 12 hours ago, romeo_echo said: Anyway, I just bought the lastest Philips warm LEDs (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08667GGJW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details), when they come in I will report back as to whether the dimming curve has improved over my two-year-old bulbs (which should be the "same", they are also Philips warm LEDs). WOW!!! I just got in my (first) 8-pack of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08667GGJW?psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER TOTALLY different dimming curve than the "same" Philips Warm LED dimmable bulbs I bought two years ago... now my sunrise does look exactly like the pics lilyoyo1 uploaded! They also seem WAY "warmer" than my old "warm" LEDs at the lower light levels. Oddly, there doesn't seem to be any kind of model number or version/revision number on the box, or on the bulbs themselves, so there's no way to be sure my next purchase will be the same bulb with the same technology (except to check the SKU/UPC code). I am STOKED. I just redesigned my sunrise program, I can't wait to see it in the A.M. THANKS ALL 2
Teken Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 Besides dimming to a low level the true test is if the same dims smoothly up and down!Many LED may offer one or the other but very few do both well! That’s why I always say once you find that solid product buy a whole stack from the same carton.Keep in mind none of that addresses if the LED bulb will have any impact to your Insteon network. Whether it be a signal sucker vs noise maker or both! Test, don’t guess . . .
romeo_echo Posted October 5, 2021 Author Posted October 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, Teken said: Besides dimming to a low level the true test is if the same dims smoothly up and down! Many LED may offer one or the other but very few do both well! That’s why I always say once you find that solid product buy a whole stack from the same carton. Keep in mind none of that addresses if the LED bulb will have any impact to your Insteon network. Whether it be a signal sucker vs noise maker or both! Test, don’t guess . . . That is true. With all eight bulbs I bought in place, dimming does indeed seem to be smooth. I think they tried really hard to match the dimming curve of an incandescent! I don't see any adverse effects on my insteon network but I'm not pro enough to know what to look for -- everything still kind of just works, so that seems OK :) I just bought 16 more, let's hope they are all the same thing! Thanks,
Teken Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 That is true. With all eight bulbs I bought in place, dimming does indeed seem to be smooth. I think they tried really hard to match the dimming curve of an incandescent! I don't see any adverse effects on my insteon network but I'm not pro enough to know what to look for -- everything still kind of just works, so that seems OK I just bought 16 more, let's hope they are all the same thing! Thanks,Simple - turn on the lights. Go to another part of the home and turn things on and off. If things are slower or don’t react as you expect you have a problem. Open the AC and do a scene test while the level 3 error logs are running.If the system shows 0 hops left you need to identify where the noise maker / signal sucker is coming from.You can even go old school like me and grab a AM-FM radio and tune it to a empty channel and listen to any injected RFI noise. If you turn on the radio and hear just a steady background noise. Turn on the LED do you hear a pop or more hiss?!?If you do that’s RFI being emitted in the air. If you still have a fluorescent tube light do the same. If you see the bulb flicker that’s EMI being injected into the air.
lilyoyo1 Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Teken said: Simple - turn on the lights. Go to another part of the home and turn things on and off. If things are slower or don’t react as you expect you have a problem. Open the AC and do a scene test while the level 3 error logs are running. If the system shows 0 hops left you need to identify where the noise maker / signal sucker is coming from. You can even go old school like me and grab a AM-FM radio and tune it to a empty channel and listen to any injected RFI noise. If you turn on the radio and hear just a steady background noise. Turn on the LED do you hear a pop or more hiss?!? If you do that’s RFI being emitted in the air. If you still have a fluorescent tube light do the same. If you see the bulb flicker that’s EMI being injected into the air. If it aint broke why fix it? You're trying to have him run around for something that isnt an issue so far (though it helps with troubleshooting for potential issues in the future). From my experience Warm Glow bulbs do not present any adverse reaction to insteon devices. Not saying it cant happen long term should the bulbs (or devices) last 5+ years. 1
Teken Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 If it aint broke why fix it? You're trying to have him run around for something that isnt an issue so far (though it helps with troubleshooting for potential issues in the future). From my experience Warm Glow bulbs do not present any adverse reaction to insteon devices. Not saying it cant happen long term should the bulbs (or devices) last 5+ years. He indicated he didn’t know how to identify if a problem exists. I offered some simple and basic tools almost anyone has and can do.If he wants to confirm at some point - OK. If not that’s OK too! 1
lilyoyo1 Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Teken said: He indicated he didn’t know how to identify if a problem exists. I offered some simple and basic tools almost anyone has and can do. If he wants to confirm at some point - OK. If not that’s OK too! boo. I thought you'd argue with me. lol
Teken Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 boo. I thought you'd argue with me. lolI’m pretty sure you know me well enough that I don’t go out of my way to argue with people just for the sake of doing so! I’m here to spread the love and information when and where I can. If it helps just a single person now or in the future - great! 1 1
lilyoyo1 Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Teken said: I’m pretty sure you know me well enough that I don’t go out of my way to argue with people just for the sake of doing so! I’m here to spread the love and information when and where I can. If it helps just a single person now or in the future - great! Except with me!!! lol
Teken Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 Except with me!!! lolWe have opposing views on some topics - it’s true. At the end of the day you always agree with me because I’m - Right! Don’t worry young Jedi still lots to teach you!
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