ISY994i Z-Wave Alexa Google

[WayneUrso]

Hi,

     I recently got  the newest ISY994i with Z Wave and Alexa.  I am hoping that I can add Alexa Devices (or possibly Google Devices)  to the ISY, and control those devices via an ISY program.  I cannot figure out how to make Alexa or Google Devices visible in the Console.  In particular, I have an outdoor outlet that can be controlled from my iPad via the Alexa app, or via the Google Home app.  Is it possible to make that outdoor outlet a visible device undies the ISY console?  Please note…  I only have the outlet.  I do not have an Alexa Hub, nor a Google Nest Hub.  Is it possible that I need to buy a hub in order to be able to import that outlet into ISY?

[lilyoyo1]

No it's not possible. 

[kzboray]

You would need to use a Polyglot server and then add a node-server for the outlet brand that you have. At that point the outlet would become visible to the ISY. Caveat is that the outlet you have has to be a brand that is currently supported via a node-server.

[WayneUrso]

Thanks very much, kzboray.  I have no idea o how to do what you are suggesting, but I’ll research it to see if it is something that I can handle.  I appreciate your help.

[kzboray]

You can buy a ready made Polisy server from UDI. Its a ready made Polyglot server that will eventually replace the ISY994i.

https://www.universal-devices.com/product/polisy/

[WayneUrso]

Thanks very much for the suggestion.  I’ll check it out!.

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, WayneUrso said:

Thanks very much for the suggestion.  I’ll check it out!.

Let me add something......  Polyglot is a system that runs on a Polisy......  Polyglot has nodeservers, which are interfaces between a number of products/devices (Tesla, Thermostats, Somfy, Weather Apps, and many more) and ISY. It is pretty spectacular. There are several nodeservers that work with Google, such as Chromecast, Google Home, Google calendar, but probably what you need is a nodeserver that works with brand that you are using. 

As an example, there is a nodeserver for Kasa devices, which allows you to control these devices in your ISY. There is a list of the current 112 different nodeservers, but right now I don't remember where that list is.

Explore Polisy and you will be amazed.

[WayneUrso]

Thanks very much for the suggestion.  I will certainly check it out.

[tazman]

You can setup a routine in Alexa and control it from a variable in ISY as a motion detector.

[MrBill]

14 hours ago, WayneUrso said:

Hi,

     I recently got  the newest ISY994i with Z Wave and Alexa.  I am hoping that I can add Alexa Devices (or possibly Google Devices)  to the ISY, and control those devices via an ISY program.  I cannot figure out how to make Alexa or Google Devices visible in the Console.  In particular, I have an outdoor outlet that can be controlled from my iPad via the Alexa app, or via the Google Home app.  Is it possible to make that outdoor outlet a visible device undies the ISY console?  Please note…  I only have the outlet.  I do not have an Alexa Hub, nor a Google Nest Hub.  Is it possible that I need to buy a hub in order to be able to import that outlet into ISY?

I'm not sure anyone else in the thread understood until tazman....

1 hour ago, tazman said:

You can setup a routine in Alexa and control it from a variable in ISY as a motion detector.

He's correct, you need Alexa routines to turn the outlet on and off.  those routines need to be triggered via an ISY variable.

[WayneUrso]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.  I think I need to dive into Polyglot.

[MrBill]

@WayneUrso  This sounds similar to your request:

----

I will ask tho, what type of Outdoor plug is it?  If z-wave why not add it to the ISY directly?

--

you mentioned in your first post "I recently got  the newest ISY994i with Z Wave and Alexa."  but you had an ISY in 2015 it looks like from your post history, so I'm a little confused about your history with ISY's, did you have one that died?   or did you have a 99i from many years ago and just got around to upgrading to a 994 now?

[WayneUrso]

Hello Mr. Bill,

     Thanks very much for your posting.  To answer your question, I have had a few different models of ISY over many years, and have been very pleased with all of them.  My last ISY could only handle X10 or Insteon Devices.  And I was happy with that limitation until my trusty Insteon Outdoor Outlet, which worked very well for many years, croaked.  I found that I could not get a replacement Insteon Outdoor Outlet.

     I saw that they latest model of ISY could apparently handle Z-Wave, and Alexa, and since outdoor outlets were readily available for both Z-Wave and Alexa, I opted to upgrade to the very latest model of ISY in recent weeks.  

     I initially got a Z-Wave Outdoor Outlet, and that idea simply did not work.  Where I live, it gets very cold in the Winter, and the very first night that I attempted to use that Z-Wave outlet, the temperature went to10 degrees.  The device would not work in those cold conditions.  My trusty Insteon handled that and much colder temperatures without problems.  So, I returned the Z-Wave outlet, and picked up an Alexa Outlet.

     I had assumed that I could simply import the Alexa outlet into the ISY just like I had done with the Z-Wave, and that’s when I reminded myself about the word “Assume”, and how it could make an *** out of me.  And that’s exactly what it did to me.  

     Since Z-Wave was a dead end, I was hoping that there was some sort of an easy way of using Alexa devices with the ISY, and from what I have learned, it isn’t a very intuitive and straightforward process.  And all of this prompted me to ask the experts here to help me understand what I was obviously missing in my ISY knowledge base.  

     I am now thinking that perhaps I ought to abandon the ISY idea, and simply get a Google or Alexa hub, with devices that actually work without fuss with one of those hubs.

 

[asbril]

11 minutes ago, WayneUrso said:

Hello Mr. Bill,

     Thanks very much for your posting.  To answer your question, I have had a few different models of ISY over many years, and have been very pleased with all of them.  My last ISY could only handle X10 or Insteon Devices.  And I was happy with that limitation until my trusty Insteon Outdoor Outlet, which worked very well for many years, croaked.  I found that I could not get a replacement Insteon Outdoor Outlet.

     I saw that they latest model of ISY could apparently handle Z-Wave, and Alexa, and since outdoor outlets were readily available for both Z-Wave and Alexa, I opted to upgrade to the very latest model of ISY in recent weeks.  

     I initially got a Z-Wave Outdoor Outlet, and that idea simply did not work.  Where I live, it gets very cold in the Winter, and the very first night that I attempted to use that Z-Wave outlet, the temperature went to10 degrees.  The device would not work in those cold conditions.  My trusty Insteon handled that and much colder temperatures without problems.  So, I returned the Z-Wave outlet, and picked up an Alexa Outlet.

     I had assumed that I could simply import the Alexa outlet into the ISY just like I had done with the Z-Wave, and that’s when I reminded myself about the word “Assume”, and how it could make an *** out of me.  And that’s exactly what it did to me.  

     Since Z-Wave was a dead end, I was hoping that there was some sort of an easy way of using Alexa devices with the ISY, and from what I have learned, it isn’t a very intuitive and straightforward process.  And all of this prompted me to ask the experts here to help me understand what I was obviously missing in my ISY knowledge base.  

     I am now thinking that perhaps I ought to abandon the ISY idea, and simply get a Google or Alexa hub, with devices that actually work without fuss with one of those hubs.

 

Alexa and Google Home can control your ISY devices,with ISY Portal account, so that for example I can tell Alexa and GH to turn on lights, close curtains etc.

But in most cases ISY can not control Alexa or GH, unless there is a nodeserver for the specific need. As an example, I can control my Chromecast devices in my ISY because there is a specific nodeserver for that purpose.

It is also possible to have Alexa "announce" specific ISY events and I use this to let us know in the master bedroom that there is motion in the elevator foyers of my apartment.

Edited December 1, 2021 by asbril

[MrBill]

52 minutes ago, WayneUrso said:

I saw that they latest model of ISY could apparently handle Z-Wave, and Alexa, and since outdoor outlets were readily available for both Z-Wave and Alexa, I opted to upgrade to the very latest model of ISY in recent weeks.  

There's a lot of confusion in that sentence.    The ISY 994i hardware is around 10 years old.  The same ISY can be stuffed with a z-wave board or upgrade.  The model you have now is not a lot different that the model you had in 2015, except your new one came with the z-wave board already installed. 

The Alexa interface is a actually a function of the portal.  Information can be sent back and forth between ISY and Alexa, but only in a structured manner.  and it's fairly limited and must be predefined in the Portal.  This was also true with your old ISY.

See the thread I link above where someone is doing very similar to what you requested, except instead of an "outdoor outlet" they are using Feit light bulbs--- the concept and instructions remain the same, just with different devices.   (which are crappy, don't buy feit).

1 hour ago, WayneUrso said:

Since Z-Wave was a dead end,

Are you should it was the cold that caused your problem?  I suspect it was actually range.  When using z-wave one has to build a mesh of devices.  they pass the signal on to each other.  It's very possible to "get too far away" from the controller or ISY.    Here's a post you should review:

 

1 hour ago, WayneUrso said:

Alexa hub

I'm not sure what you mean, unless you mean one of the Alexa's that has a zigbee controller built into the device.   Most Alexa (and google home) devices are fairly dumb, a microphone and speaker.  The magic happans because of the Amazon (or google) cloud connection.   Without the connection the devices simply don't work (including the zigbee controller built into some)

 

1 hour ago, asbril said:

But in most cases ISY can not control Alexa or GH, unless there is a nodeserver for the specific need. As an example, I can control my Chromecast devices in my ISY because there is a specific nodeserver for that purpose.

That's not exactly accurate.. see the feit thread I linked above for an example.   It is not straight forward tho, and not scalable.  The user has to create variables and programs in the isy, create linking instructions in the ISY portal, and then finally create Alexa routines via the Alexa App to make everything talk to each other.  I might use it for something like a single set of blinds that Alexa can control, but don't interface easily to the ISY (or without additional expense).  But I certainly wouldn't rely of that type of interface for many devices, nor would I do it for something that had to reliably work because it needed to switch on heat when it's too cold.

So you mention COLD and Heaters... i doubt that you want to risk control of that to an Alexa (or GH) cloud dependent device.   ie. if the internet's down, or the amazon cloud is having a bad day (it happens, not often but the Alexa cloud services have been down twice this year for extended periods, and sometimes she just doesn't do what shes supposed to but if you repeat it works.   Anyway I think you want a LOCAL system to control your Heat in a cold enviorment.  don't rely on cloud services such as Alexa or GH.   That means use your ISY and Z-wave, but you need to back up and understand z-wave limitations and how to get that system to work for you.

 

[WayneUrso]

1 hour ago, MrBill said:

There's a lot of confusion in that sentence.    The ISY 994i hardware is around 10 years old.  The same ISY can be stuffed with a z-wave board or upgrade.  The model you have now is not a lot different that the model you had in 2015, except your new one came with the z-wave board already installed. 

The Alexa interface is a actually a function of the portal.  Information can be sent back and forth between ISY and Alexa, but only in a structured manner.  and it's fairly limited and must be predefined in the Portal.  This was also true with your old ISY.

See the thread I link above where someone is doing very similar to what you requested, except instead of an "outdoor outlet" they are using Feit light bulbs--- the concept and instructions remain the same, just with different devices.   (which are crappy, don't buy feit).

Are you should it was the cold that caused your problem?  I suspect it was actually range.  When using z-wave one has to build a mesh of devices.  they pass the signal on to each other.  It's very possible to "get too far away" from the controller or ISY.    Here's a post you should review:

 

I'm not sure what you mean, unless you mean one of the Alexa's that has a zigbee controller built into the device.   Most Alexa (and google home) devices are fairly dumb, a microphone and speaker.  The magic happens because of the Amazon (or google) cloud connection.   Without the connection the devices simply don't work (including the zigbee controller built into some)

 

That's not exactly accurate.. see the feit thread I linked above for an example.   It is not straight forward tho, and not scalable.  The user has to create variables and programs in the isy, create linking instructions in the ISY portal, and then finally create Alexa routines via the Alexa App to make everything talk to each other.  I might use it for something like a single set of blinds that Alexa can control, but don't interface easily to the ISY (or without additional expense).  But I certainly wouldn't rely of that type of interface for many devices, nor would I do it for something that had to reliably work because it needed to switch on heat when it's too cold.

So you mention COLD and Heaters... i doubt that you want to risk control of that to an Alexa (or GH) cloud dependent device.   ie. if the internet's down, or the amazon cloud is having a bad day (it happens, not often but the Alexa cloud services have been down twice this year for extended periods, and sometimes she just doesn't do what shes supposed to but if you repeat it works.   Anyway I think you want a LOCAL system to control your Heat in a cold enviorment.  don't rely on cloud services such as Alexa or GH.   That means use your ISY and Z-wave, but you need to back up and understand z-wave limitations and how to get that system to work for you.

 

Hello Mr. Bill,

  You are correct that there is confusion in that one sentence.  I'll take some responsibility for the confusion, but I have attached images from the Amazon page where I placed the order. Nowhere does it say that Alexa devices are controlled indirectly, but I will admit that it says compatible with Alexa which, in hindsight, seems very vague.

With regards to Z-Wave, the distance of the outdoor outlet to my ISY is about 40 feet.  That does not seem like a huge distance, but I'll admit that I am new to Zwave and perhaps I need some sort of a repeater between the outlet and the ISY.  That being said, for many of the Z-Wave outdoor outlets, when one examines the specs closely, the operating temperature is 32 degrees and above.  Clearly, 10 degrees is quite a bit less than 32, so I would guess that temperature is what got in the way, and not range.

With regards to Z-Wave and Alexa, the marriage of those two is not in any Alexa Hub, but as previously stated, the vagueness to me came directly from the Amazon product description.

With regard to cold and heaters, I actually never mentioned "Heaters".  I mentioned cold because my Zwave outlet is in an area that gets very cold.  And it is used to control only lights.

When I get some time, I will look over your link to the Feith thread to see what kind of hoops I need to jump through to get both the ISY and the Alexa hub talking to each other via variables.  But since the tasks that I need done are rather simple like "Turn on the outdoor lights 40 minutes before sunset", or turn off outside lights at 11:30, it might just be easier to ditch the ISY and only use an Alexa Hub or a Google Hub to do those simple tasks.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by WayneUrso
I inadvertently hit the Tab kep at the wrong time which prematurely posted a partial response.

[MrBill]

16 hours ago, WayneUrso said:

about 40 feet.

About 40 feet as the distance to the first z-wave device is probably too far by about 8 times.. From what I've read in this forum 5 feet or less to the first z-wave device is preferable.

16 hours ago, WayneUrso said:

it might just be easier to ditch the ISY and only use an Alexa Hub or a Google Hub to do those simple tasks

Good luck with whatever choices you make!!

[WayneUrso]

Thank you.  I appreciate your helping to get to the bottom of “Alexa Compatible”.

[lilyoyo1]

19 hours ago, WayneUrso said:

Hello Mr. Bill,

  You are correct that there is confusion in that one sentence.  I'll take some responsibility for the confusion, but I have attached images from the Amazon page where I placed the order. Nowhere does it say that Alexa devices are controlled indirectly, but I will admit that it says compatible with Alexa which, in hindsight, seems very vague.

With regards to Z-Wave, the distance of the outdoor outlet to my ISY is about 40 feet.  That does not seem like a huge distance, but I'll admit that I am new to Zwave and perhaps I need some sort of a repeater between the outlet and the ISY.  That being said, for many of the Z-Wave outdoor outlets, when one examines the specs closely, the operating temperature is 32 degrees and above.  Clearly, 10 degrees is quite a bit less than 32, so I would guess that temperature is what got in the way, and not range.

With regards to Z-Wave and Alexa, the marriage of those two is not in any Alexa Hub, but as previously stated, the vagueness to me came directly from the Amazon product description.

With regard to cold and heaters, I actually never mentioned "Heaters".  I mentioned cold because my Zwave outlet is in an area that gets very cold.  And it is used to control only lights.

When I get some time, I will look over your link to the Feith thread to see what kind of hoops I need to jump through to get both the ISY and the Alexa hub talking to each other via variables.  But since the tasks that I need done are rather simple like "Turn on the outdoor lights 40 minutes before sunset", or turn off outside lights at 11:30, it might just be easier to ditch the ISY and only use an Alexa Hub or a Google Hub to do those simple tasks.

 

 

 

 

Being compatible with Alexa/google home does not make the ISY compatible with Alexa or Google compatible devices. Those are 2 very different things.

The former means you can use Alexa/Google to control devices connected to the ISY. The latter means Devices were made to work with Alexa or google. 

Also, while 40 feet may not feel huge to you, yes it can mean the difference between a device working and not working. These forums and others are filled with people having issues with range for much shorter distances.

Edited December 2, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[WayneUrso]

The description clearly says “Automate with Amazon Alexa DEVICES!  The whole ISY Amazon Product page is vague at best, and that vagueness is what prompted me to make a purchase that simply does not work in any way that is reasonable for my situation.

 And in regards to Wave Z Range, what difference does that make if the detailed specs for operation say that the operating temperature must be 32 or above, when I live where it gets much colder than that.  Suppose I got some mesh devices in between my ISY and the z-Wave Outdoor outlet.  Would that make the thing work in the environment where I live when the temperature goes to zero?  I seriously doubt it. 

 

[lilyoyo1]

31 minutes ago, WayneUrso said:

The description clearly says “Automate with Amazon Alexa DEVICES!  The whole ISY Amazon Product page is vague at best, and that vagueness is what prompted me to make a purchase that simply does not work in any way that is reasonable for my situation.

 And in regards to Wave Z Range, what difference does that make if the detailed specs for operation say that the operating temperature must be 32 or above, when I live where it gets much colder than that.  Suppose I got some mesh devices in between my ISY and the z-Wave Outdoor outlet.  Would that make the thing work in the environment where I live when the temperature goes to zero?  I seriously doubt it. 

 

Im not even going to argue with you. If you dont know what Amazon Alexa devices are, you really should take time to do research on the subject matter prior to buying equipment. To help you, I attached a screen shot of Alexa devices. NOT to be confused with ALEXA COMPATIBLE DEVICES.

Since you seem to know more about the subject than the people you've asked for help? did you bother to attempt to try and control the outlet when it was above 32 degrees?

ALEXA DEVICES:

 

 

ALEXA COMPATIBLE DEVICES: Much much more available

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[MrBill]

The temp spec may or may not be real....  I use several devices outside that technically aren't made for the conditions that I put them in. 

The short z-wave range of the ISY controller is a well know fact tho.  Another known fact is that standing it up on it's end makes to reorient the antenna helps too....  But you didn't read the Z-wave tips and tricks post byt @lilyoyo1 than I linked above anyway. 

Do you still have the packing?  are you still in your Amazon return window?  you should probably just pack everything up and send it back!

[WayneUrso]

I'm not sure if I still have the packing material or not.  I was convinced that this was going to be a fairly painless upgrade just like the other times that I updated my ISY over the many years that I've used them.  But I was clearly too optimistic.  As I write this, I am trying to get Google Nest up and running with a WiFi outdoor outlet.  I got a TP-Link KASA outdoor outlet that I am able to turn on and off via Google nest.  I have set up routines for turning the lights on and off.  Assuming that this works as I hope, I will be replacing my Insteon Switches for other light switches compatible with Google and creating routines for those lights also. 

Once Google nest is up and running, I am unsure of whether I can return the ISY without packing material or not.  That's a consideration for a different day.  Thanks very much for your help.  I could have spent quite a bit of time trying to do what is far more difficult than I had hoped.  Best regards!

Edited December 2, 2021 by WayneUrso
Clarified text

[asbril]

39 minutes ago, WayneUrso said:

Google Nest

To the best of my knowledge, Google Nest is no longer working with ISY. It seems that Google does not share its changed API.

[WayneUrso]

Thank you.  But I am no longer trying to get anything working with ISY.  Once I have migrated totally to Google nest, the ISY will be abandoned and will not be in any use.