rick.curl Posted January 20, 2022 Posted January 20, 2022 I've had a 2456S3 ApplianceLinc controller in the base of a lamp post in the front yard for several years. It has gotten to the point that I have to send commands to it several times before it will respond, so I am trying to replace it. I have several "new old stock" 2546S3's on hand so I got one of these out and tried to use it to replace the one in the lamp post. The ISY sees it when I link it, and I can turn the light on and off, but the ISY says the device is not responding. The status still says OFF even when it is switched ON. I completely removed it from the system and put it back in, but got the same results. Now I've got it sitting next to the ISY, and I tried three other 2456S3's, and the same thing happened. I still have other 2456S3's in my system that are working fine. This has got to be something simple that I'm overlooking. Can some kind soul point me in the right direction? Thanks! -Rick
Techman Posted January 20, 2022 Posted January 20, 2022 What's your ISY firmware version and your UI? Try doing a factory reset on the device then a restore device from the ISY
rick.curl Posted January 21, 2022 Author Posted January 21, 2022 Thanks for the response. I tried the factory reset followed by restoring the device. No joy. ISY and UI firmware version are both 5.0.16
rick.curl Posted January 21, 2022 Author Posted January 21, 2022 I just discovered something- After I get the "failed to communicate" message in the admin console I can do a query and the status updates correctly.
Techman Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 Try moving the device to a different location. Set your event viewer to level 3 and then turn the device on and off and post a copy of the log
rick.curl Posted January 21, 2022 Author Posted January 21, 2022 Here 'tis: Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:23 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 07 D1 81 0F 13 00 Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:23 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 07.D1.81 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:24 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 07.D1.81 52.64.60 AF 13 FE LTOFFRR(FE) Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:24 PM : [Std-Direct Nack] 07.D1.81-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:24 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [7 D1 81 1] [ERR] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:24 PM : [ 7 D1 81 1] ERR 1 Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:33 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 07 D1 81 0F 11 FF Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:33 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 07.D1.81 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:33 PM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 07.D1.81 52.64.60 AF 11 FE LTONRR (FE) Thu 01/20/2022 07:10:33 PM : [Std-Direct Nack] 07.D1.81-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Techman Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 Take a look at this thread. ERR 1 is Request failed:
lilyoyo1 Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 5 hours ago, rick.curl said: I've had a 2456S3 ApplianceLinc controller in the base of a lamp post in the front yard for several years. It has gotten to the point that I have to send commands to it several times before it will respond, so I am trying to replace it. I have several "new old stock" 2546S3's on hand so I got one of these out and tried to use it to replace the one in the lamp post. The ISY sees it when I link it, and I can turn the light on and off, but the ISY says the device is not responding. The status still says OFF even when it is switched ON. I completely removed it from the system and put it back in, but got the same results. Now I've got it sitting next to the ISY, and I tried three other 2456S3's, and the same thing happened. I still have other 2456S3's in my system that are working fine. This has got to be something simple that I'm overlooking. Can some kind soul point me in the right direction? Thanks! -Rick Thats an older powerline only device so noise has a greater chance of causing the issues that you face. Unplug whatever is plugged into it and test. If you still have the same issues, then there could be something on the circuit causing communication issues.
Techman Posted January 21, 2022 Posted January 21, 2022 Another possibility is that you link space in the PLM is full. Do a PLM link count during a period when the ISY is inactive. Do you have the Pro version of the ISY?
rick.curl Posted January 21, 2022 Author Posted January 21, 2022 The ISY is the PRO version. There are currently 161 links in the PLM. I have tried plugging multiple 2456S3's into multiple locations (nothing plugged into the load side). This includes plugging one of the new 2456's into an outlet adjacent to an old 2456 that always works. The thing that is baffling to me is that trying to control one of these devices ALWAYS works, but the ISY always fails to get the status and gives the "failed to communicate" message - but then I can do a query and it ALWAYS gives the correct status. BTW- I want back to the old single band devices after I bought several new (smaller case) dual band devices and the housings disintegrated after a little over a year and Smarthome wouldn't replace them. After several attempts to patch them they all went in the trash. Lots of money down the tubes. I did read the thread referenced a few posts above, but I didn't see anything that is helpful. I think I can rule out interference since the older identical devices that have been here for a long time are working fine. Still stumped. Any other thoughts?
Brian H Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 Have you done a Show Devices Links and then a Compare. To see if the modules links are what the ISY is using? Do you have the firmware version in the 2456S3. Listed in the Administrative Console and is it the same as the ones working for you?
rick.curl Posted January 22, 2022 Author Posted January 22, 2022 Show Device links /Compare gives two lines- the first says [Identical] and the second (all zeroes) says [Identical/Ignore]. Seems to be much like the other devices except this one only has two links, which is expected since I am only trying to test it. Firmware in devices that are working is V.39, 32, 23, 38, and 42. Firmware in the device I am currently working with is V.28, so some of the working devices are higher and some devices are lower than this one.
Techman Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 9 hours ago, rick.curl said: Show Device links /Compare gives two lines- the first says [Identical] and the second (all zeroes) says [Identical/Ignore]. Seems to be much like the other devices except this one only has two links, which is expected since I am only trying to test it. Firmware in devices that are working is V.39, 32, 23, 38, and 42. Firmware in the device I am currently working with is V.28, so some of the working devices are higher and some devices are lower than this one. V.28 came out about the same time as the Industrial Revolution. It's possible that the current ISY firmware doesn't support it. The link tables that you're seeing are completely normal.
Brian H Posted January 22, 2022 Posted January 22, 2022 V.28 firmware is the original version in the hardware original 1.3 ApplianceLincs. I don't believe it has that feature. The newer V4.? ones are a completely different design and that feature may have been added in a later revision hardware and firmware. I know my original hardware V1.3 firmware V.28 ApplinceLinc modules. Worked fine with my ISY99i and then ISY994i. I am not sure if I was using any V5 software (v5.0.16C) when I swapped my V1.3 units for V4.? ones.
rick.curl Posted January 23, 2022 Author Posted January 23, 2022 Unfortunately I have eight of these (new old stock). I realize that this is an old hardware design. Let me go out on a limb here- Is there any more recent firmware that will work on these? And the BIG question- If there is, how can I get a copy of it? I do a lot of work with embedded microcontrollers, and if I can find more recent firmware I can find a way to get it loaded in the module.
rick.curl Posted January 23, 2022 Author Posted January 23, 2022 Another thought- since these always work if I do a query after sending a command, is there a way to always follow a command with a query when communicating with a V.28 device? that would at least be a band-aid so I can use these.
stevehoyt Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 Rick For what it is worth, I have been having the exact same problem for many months now. Each time I log in to the admin console, I get the " can not communicate message " for from 2 to 7 devices. It drives me nuts. I then query the device or turn it on or off and it works without any problems. I have tried different versions of software...( current at 5.3.4 ) It happens across all types of devices very old and relatively new dual band ones. It also is not always the same devices. I have been trying to determine a pattern.... no luck. My only guess at the moment, since I have seen so many problems with PLMs on here, is that maybe my PLM is dying a slow death. I am in the process of migrating to a Polisy and a brand new usb PLM. If I find anything out I will post it here.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 39 minutes ago, rick.curl said: Unfortunately I have eight of these (new old stock). I realize that this is an old hardware design. Let me go out on a limb here- Is there any more recent firmware that will work on these? And the BIG question- If there is, how can I get a copy of it? I do a lot of work with embedded microcontrollers, and if I can find more recent firmware I can find a way to get it loaded in the module. It's not that the firmware doesn't support it. Nothing had been removed in regards to support. Besides that, if the firmware didn't support it, the isy would add it and state unsupported device
lilyoyo1 Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 33 minutes ago, rick.curl said: Another thought- since these always work if I do a query after sending a command, is there a way to always follow a command with a query when communicating with a V.28 device? that would at least be a band-aid so I can use these. How are you controlling them? Do you have any programs that will run/not run due to their status
Brian H Posted January 23, 2022 Posted January 23, 2022 8 hours ago, rick.curl said: Unfortunately I have eight of these (new old stock). I realize that this is an old hardware design. Let me go out on a limb here- Is there any more recent firmware that will work on these? And the BIG question- If there is, how can I get a copy of it? I do a lot of work with embedded microcontrollers, and if I can find more recent firmware I can find a way to get it loaded in the module. Smartlabs- Smarthome is very protective of the firmware and never released it to anyone. Not even to UDI they originally promised it to for their own deigned PLM and changed their mind. The module like every one I have seen. Has the five pin programming pads or board header to do it. Though you have to be careful as the ApplianceLinc has its +5VDC and +30VDC are directly connected to the AC power Line.
rick.curl Posted January 24, 2022 Author Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) On 1/23/2022 at 10:38 AM, lilyoyo1 said: How are you controlling them? Do you have any programs that will run/not run due to their status One of them will be for a lamp post in the front yard, so it will be simple enough to have the "time of day" program do a query- but if I want to turn it one or off from my smart phone I'm not sure how I'm going to add the query to that. Edited January 24, 2022 by rick.curl
rick.curl Posted January 24, 2022 Author Posted January 24, 2022 7 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: It's not that the firmware doesn't support it. Nothing had been removed in regards to support. Besides that, if the firmware didn't support it, the isy would add it and state unsupported device Agree- but what is causing the problem then? All eight of my V.28 devices are doing the same thing.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 3 hours ago, rick.curl said: Agree- but what is causing the problem then? All eight of my V.28 devices are doing the same thing. Its been so long since i've dealt with older devices like that (since 2011/2012 at the latest) so I do not remember its behavior when it comes to the ISY. I do know cannot communicate means just that. its not getting a response from the devices. Outside of standard troubleshooting steps, with devices that old, I cant say for certain. What I do know is that as long as the firmware supports a device, itll show the device properly. I've attached a picture of what an unsupported device looks like in the ISY for your reference
Brian H Posted January 24, 2022 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Can you explain in more details. Exactly what the older version hardware and firmware is not doing. That the later versions do. Edited January 24, 2022 by Brian H
rick.curl Posted January 24, 2022 Author Posted January 24, 2022 My suspicion is that they DO work, but the response is coming too late and the ISY gives up before it arrives. Wish there was a way to make it wait a bit longer.
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